Talk:Amsterdam Westerpark train collision

Map
That map, with no wider context, is entirely uninformative to anyone who does not know the local area well. An inset identifying where this is within the country would make the map many times more helpful. The three scales of map on the Sloterdijk article would be ideal, but I can't see how the template for the infobox would allow that. Kevin McE (talk) 08:13, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Map recaptioned, which should give the required context. Mjroots (talk) 15:22, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Could more information be added to the map? Like where Amsterdam Centraal station is, and the route of the railway line?--A bit iffy (talk) 20:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure, but there is now a diagram. Mjroots (talk) 21:20, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The map is also now separate from the infobox. Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 21:57, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Damage
Looks like the Class 8700 is at least moderately damaged. Possibly a write-off? Mjroots (talk) 21:20, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Infobox
Do we need the refs in the infobox? Ref #4 fails WP:RS, ref #5 fails WP:BLUE. Shouldn't the Rail line parameter be for the actual line the accident occurred on? (Amsterdam–Haarlem–Rotterdam railway) Mjroots (talk) 06:35, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed the refs from the ibx, two of them have been incorporated into the article, referencing unit numbers involved. Mjroots (talk) 10:31, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

"Worst accident in 50 years"
Some news reports are saying that this is worst accident in 50 years in the Netherlands. Should this be included? Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 13:31, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd check out the claim first. One death isn't many. I've a feeling that there may have been a rail accident in the Netherlands in the past 50 years that claimed more than one life. The relevant lists of rail accidents should confirm this. Mjroots (talk) 16:53, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The Hoofddorp train accident in 1980 killed more people. However, this accident seems to have caused a very large number of injuries (full trains? lots of people standing?) so I suppose it might be considered "worst" by the number of casualties... Prioryman (talk) 20:50, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The articles in question that either imply it or say it are Channel Asia News and BBC News. Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 22:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If a source is clearly wrong, then there's no need to include the info. Mjroots (talk) 05:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Speed of collision?
How fast were the two trains going? Looking at the damage, I'd guess this was a relatively low-speed collision, would that be correct? Prioryman (talk) 20:44, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the articles says that it is not a full-speed line so I have updated it. Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 21:23, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


 * They can't have been going faster than 40 km/h, otherwise the safety mechanisms would have stopped them. Besides it is within the city, and trains drive very slowly on that part of the track. 82.95.235.202 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:18, 24 April 2012 (UTC).
 * The data recorders have been recovered, the info will be in the final report. Until then, we don't add any WP:OR into the article. The current statement is sufficient for now. Mjroots (talk) 20:03, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've read on the Dutch article that something was travelling at 10kph, but I am trying to find out whether this was the intercity or one of the locomotives taking it to the workshop.


 * According to AFP, both trains were travelling at an estimated 30mph. Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 22:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Driver
What happened to the driver? -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  02:34, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Driver of the 8700 train was severly injured, the driver of the local 2600 was unhurt. Amelie poulain (talk) 06:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Do we have a source for this? It is the sort of info that should be in the article. Mjroots (talk) 08:50, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * It is really surprising that the drivers survived despite it was a head-on collision. -- Supernova Explosion   Talk  09:30, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Investigation
Can't find info enough on the web to localise the collision to googlemaps and rail maps -- don't know what tracks involved. Appears to be low-speed collision. (less than 40 km/h combined speed) Train "black boxes" recorders not reported yet that I can find but will be included in investigation. Supposed statement of driver "passed red signal" see "spad" not definitive -- driver might assume this failure after seeing oncoming train. Seems that serious facts will be wanting until investigation by Dutch authorities well under way. What track? what signal? what response by drivers of both trains? Was there engineering work going on on track or signal systems at the time? Think it will be a while before more verifiable facts from reliable sources. Patience — Preceding unsigned comment added by EideticGeezer (talk • contribs) 04:26, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * When I added the info about the SPAD, I worded it in such a way that it was clear that this was not officially confirmed. A second (official) source has since backed this info up. Of course, all will be fully revealed when the OVV released their final report into the accident. Mjroots (talk) 05:25, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * And the ILT. Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 14:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Westerpark
Should this article be moved to Westerpark? It is located in the Westerpark area, which not only refers to the nearby park but is apprently also a nearby area of Amsterdam. Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 21:04, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No, the accident is notable enough to sustain a separate article. Mjroots (talk) 21:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That wasn't quite what I meant. I was meaning "Westerpark train collision" instead of "Sloterdijk train collision". Simply south...... going on editing sprees for just 6 years (as of 28/03/2006) 21:36, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Maybe a redirect would suffice? Mjroots (talk) 21:49, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Documents
English content: WhisperToMe (talk) 22:19, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/index.php/onderzoeken/treinbotsing-tussen-intercity-en-sprinter-amsterdam-21april-2012/ - http://www.webcitation.org/6GE6EjQqS
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Rapport_Westerpark_EN_web.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6GE6Hi6SC
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/reacties/Rapport_Westerpark_EN_Inzagetabel_WEB.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6GE6NjpsW

Dutch home:
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/index.php/onderzoeken/treinbotsing-tussen-intercity-en-sprinter-amsterdam-21april-2012/ - http://www.webcitation.org/6GEEc1drd

Videos:
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/afbeeldingen/treinongeval%20Westerpark%20met%20conclusies.m4v
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/afbeeldingen/Westerpark%20montage%20met%20conclusies.wmv

Dutch report:
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Rapport_Westerpark_NL_web_beveiligd.pdf
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/OVV_publieksuitgave_Westerpark_WEB_beveiligd.pdf
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Bijlage_bij_H2_-_Feitenonderzoek_door_Arcadis.pdf
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Bijlage_bij_H3_-_Human_Factors_aspecten_machinist_door_Intergo.pdf
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Bijlage_bij_H3_-_Humand_Factors_aspecten_treindienstleider_door_Intergo.pdf
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Bijlage_bij_H4_-_Simulatie_bewegingsverloop_rijtuigen_door_TASS.pdf
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/rapporten/Rapport_Westerpark_NL_Inzagetabel_WEB.pdf

Recommendations in Dutch:
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/aanbevelingen/Rapport_Westerpark_bw_NL_Aanbevelingen.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6GEEispb6

Dutch news releases:
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/index.php/pers/passeren-rood-sein-niet-opgemerkt-bij-treinbotsing-amsterdam/ - http://www.webcitation.org/6GEEkWDqa
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/docs/persberichten/Persbericht_Treinbotsing_Westerpark_DEF.pdf - http://www.webcitation.org/6GEEnos2P
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/index.php/pers/publicatie-onderzoek-treinongeluk-westerpark-in-december/ - http://www.webcitation.org/6GEEpekn6
 * http://tele2.onderzoeksraad.nl/index.php/pers/onderzoeksraad-geeft-baanvak-treinbotsing-amsterdam-vrij/ - http://www.webcitation.org/6GEEttXiZ

Article claims rare viole was an ipad
In the last citation, it is claimed that "One person tried to claim for a Stradivarius violin", and links to an article to the dutch website telegraaf.nl, however, this website makes no reference to support this claim, it only states the following 2 facts: "1 person claimed to lost a Stradivarius violin" and "The ipad is the most claimed lost item", basicly, the text is just a statement without proper citation. Ferrybig (talk) 17:59, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I may have misunderstood the source. No objection to that claim being removed. Mjroots (talk) 18:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I've edited the Aftermath section to reflect the content of the Telegraaf article. Ssptwriter (talk) 10:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)