Talk:Amtgard

POV?
"The weapons are similar to boffer weapons (albeit held to a much higher standard of safety and quality)"

Not "similar to", they *are* boffer weapons. And the claim that they are held to a "much higher standard" is meaningless when there is no universal standard for such gear. And a claim that they are held to a higher standard that is average for similar sized and organized groups would require a source if you ask me, because I sure wouldn't buy it.

I have nothing against Amtgard, but I just have to call bullshit on that sentence.


 * Glenalth Sez: You're right, that is a weird sentence. It's probably because of most of the other games people see have boffers that are PVC+Pipe Insulation+Duct tape monstrosities. But since there are other games that use the same weapon standards and construction that statement should be changed.

Touch?
According to the Amtgard rules I just read, a glancing blow or a simple touch is not enough to cause damage...the blow must be a solid hit. Applejuicefool 17:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

It may vary slightly from place to place, but in general, if it hit, it hit, there is no "light" (a hit not taken because it didn't hit hard enough). However, individual players sometimes tell someone they lightly tapped to "not take that", this is their own call.

Shots that hit only clothing (garb), that would not have hit the target had the clothing not been there, do not count however.

Glenalth sez: A shot that hits and stops or hits and deflects at an angle is a valid hit. Some groups do hit harder than others, however if someone isn't taking a "light" shot they are cheating.


 * This varies a bit by particular group. I know that where I played, anything that was mostly garb, or where the weapon was basically parallel to an extremity and barely "nicked" someone and kept going without stopping or deflecting was generally discounted by both parties. However, in a technical sense, I'd agree with Glenalth. If a hit stops, or if a hit is deflected in a different direction, and it's not a "garb!" hit, then it should be taken. But there are folks on both sides of the issue. Some are rules-lawyers who argue that anything that even remotely touches must be taken. Some are realists who say that if it's just a nick and would have been stopped from breaking the skin by clothing, then it shouldn't be a legitimate hit. IE, legitimate hits are designed to be those where a "hit" in real life would have inflicted a moderate to serious wound, as opposed to "just a scratch" or a "close shave." But technically, according to the rules, a hit is a hit regardles of how hard it hits or where it hits (except head shots, or by concensus "naughty bits" shots). My 2c. Mgmirkin 21:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Glenalth sez: What do mean by "naughty bits" shots not counting? That's a valid area to get hit.

Merging Amtgard Documentary into this page
Hi,

I've proposed merging Amtgard Documentary into this page - it doesn't look as though there's enough content there to warrent it being its own page, since a lot of it's duplication. I may be wrong, though. --JennyRad 16:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the Documentary section can be put into the section on this page titled "Amtgard on Film". Also, would like to see numbers for the organization as well as the structure and location.PeregrineV 23:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Glenalth sez - I have a couple resources to help with this, but they have their own problems.
 * http://www.amtgardrecords.com/stats.php is about as close to solid numbers as can be found, but many chapters don't use the service and some are way out of date.
 * http://www.amtgardatlas.com/ is a pretty good rundown of where the chapters are, but again it's a bit out of date.


 * I believe that, if anything, the amtgard documentary can be merged into the main Amtgard entry as PeregrineV suggests. It will doubtless require some pruning of content, which can be tackled later.--Thorprime 16:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm in agreement, that the documentary could easily be integrated with the overall Amtgard article, and groomed for proper and somewhat brief presentation. If there's an Amtgard on Film section, it could probably be subdivided into specific examples, if it hasn't already (haven't had a chance to peruse the whole article yet). Seems like a logical place to put it, since, well, that's what this is: Amtgard on Film. Also there just doesn't seem to be enough info in the documentary's page to really qualify as a separate entity. I mean how much can really be said about the film? I mean was it somethign of major impact within the community, or is the page really just a vanity page about the film? I'd lean toward paring it down and including it briefly in the main article. Mgmirkin 21:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's totally a vanity page about the film. I believe it's fair to say that the Amtgard community doesn't care about the film, and hasn't given any significant attention to it. Thorprime 18:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Under no circumstances should "Swordplay" be merged into the main Amtgard entry. The film was poorly done and not representative of the Amtgard game or community. Please remove the merge.

Afd
I removed the Afd notice because discussion was concerning the merge, not deletion. I was being bold, so if my action is out-of-line, then please revert my edit. Thanks. --HResearcher 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In this case, its better to follow process... although the AFD itself should have been fully closed as it was never a valid AFD. Merging doesn't require an AFD, although if its likely to be contested, it should be discussed on the article talk page (ie here) - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 14:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Request for Deletion by The Kinslayer
I've added references to the club's previous copyrights at the bottom of the page which can be verified by following the links or visiting the Library of Congress Web Site at this address: http://www.loc.gov/index.html. This alone should satisfy the notability requirements.

I've also noted that each kingdom is a registered NFP organization, all of which can be verified in the state of origin of each group.

I'm sure there will be more links to newspaper articles, etc., in the near future.

Kurse, President of the Board of Directors of Amtgard Inc.

As The Kinslayer continues to request deletion of this article for no apparent reason, I will open discussions, as well as request further support articles. I do not understand why Amtgard is not considered notable, while NERO is, but rather than make this an "us vs. them" issue, we'll just satisfy his need to see citations. This will NOT turn into an edit war, however, this article will also not be deleted. It's survived two attempts, it'll survive this one. -- Snicker undefined°€ 13:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

B) Prod was removed, fair enough. Have I replaced with another AfD? No. I put a notice up stating that the article is currently failing notability guidelines. C)NERO has been mentioned in the media, achieving notability because they actually mention it in the article, and FYI, the other NERO article (NERO Alliance I think) WAS deleted for lack of notability.
 * A) Only one previous AfD is listed, which wasn't even meant to be an AfD, it was a merge discussion.

And there is absolutely no call for your confrontational attitude either. The Kinslayer 14:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You were the second attempt (ref: your request for speedy deletion). Given the length of time the article has existed, the amount of edits and numbers of editors, a speedy deletion request was out of order.  You also failed to initiate discussion on the talk page prior to requesting said deletion, or before putting up the PROD.  The notability clause is the first attempt you've made that makes sense, and one that I actually agree with.  Sorry if you see this as confrontational, but given that you had already attempted several times, it seems that you are the one being confrontational.  That being said, there will be sufficient sources in a short period of time.


 * Interesting that you've defended NERO, however, given that there are no citations, no articles, and in fact the article is (as is noted) a stub. Now, I don't think the article should be deleted - I believe NERO to be as important as Amtgard - but your choice of attacks and defenses leaves holes in your arguments.  Please edit fairly, Kinslayer, and not just because you have the giant red pen of doom.  -- Snicker undefined°€ 18:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Chapters
It seems to me that to even attempt to list all current chapters of Amtgard here is beyond the scope of the entry, as well as largely futile. Such a listing would make the page much less usable. Furthermore, chapters (shires in particular) come and go all the time. Keeping the entry at all up-to-date would be a large (and neverending) undertaking. Furthermore, the Amtgard Atlas and the AmtWiki are both better individual resources for that kind of info. To list anything less than a Grand Duchy or a Principality here seems a vanity entry at best. I made the call to remove the shire listed, and adjust the Chapters section a little accordingly. --'''Thorprime —Preceding comment was added at 00:46, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Independent sources
This article could do with some independent sources, it seems to be sourced entirely from Amtgard self-publications. It would be worthwhile hunting down newspaper articles, etc, about the group and citing them, in case notability is ever called into question. I don't doubt that Amtgard is notable, but right now there isn't any evidence of it. Ryan Paddy (talk) 21:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

There are quite a few newspaper articles out there, but since they always seem to interview people that don't know the facts or misquote people, the articles suffer and don't give good information. If somebody could dig through the Google News archive for Amtgard and do some fact checking and link those articles it would be helpful. Currently there are 74 articles there and one from 1990 that I can't view so it's probably a good start. --Glenalth (talk) 23:31, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that's true of news coverage of most things (look at news coverage of science), although obscure pastimes like larp probably suffer particularly. Best to just cite the most accurate news articles that can be found. Or at least mention that the group has been covered by XYZ major news outlets, without quoting the inaccurate coverage that may have been given. Ryan Paddy (talk) 05:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)