Talk:Amy Winehouse/Archive 5

Source of Death
SkyNews

It's apparently getting a lot of attention - I can't even load the article, but the preview in a Google search for "skynews amy winehouse" tells me they're confirming it. CycloneGU (talk) 16:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's on Sky News on the TV. Daily Mail confirms it too. Big  Dom  16:43, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * From the BBC: Colds7ream (talk) 16:48, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * CNN now has posted the breaking news update. Not that we need another source.  No story from CNN yet.  CycloneGU (talk) 17:01, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Somebody with a really fast connection merge the Daily Mail references. There has been too many edit conflicts for me to proceed any further. --Addict 2006 16:47, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't even try. I merely comment from the sidelines. =)  CycloneGU (talk) 17:14, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Page should be edited to remove suspected drug overdose. Linked article makes NO mention of overdose. Saying it's a suspected overdose is purely opinion.


 * News sources state it. We can source it, we can say it.  CycloneGU (talk) 17:14, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Link to news sources that state it? Neither Sky News nor the Mail even mention an overdose in their articles about it.
 * Same. I see no support for the drug overdose claims as yet. Especially the "(including many celebrities" claim 86.143.166.85 (talk) 17:19, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn. I thought I saw it as suspected in an article, but everything says the official cause is unexplained, so I won't speculate.  CycloneGU (talk) 17:43, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

- Record label releases a statement, do you include what they say? Rain the One  BAM 19:30, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Time of Death?
The article states that the time of death was 4 pm local time or 1600 GMT. Currently, Britain is on Summer Time, so 4 pm local time would be 1500 GMT. Or if she died at 1600 GMT the local time would be 5 pm. Can someone please fix this as soon as the actual time of death is ascertained?109.58.98.197 (talk) 17:19, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * She was found at 54 minutes after the hour. Two sources did clearly say that detail.  The exact time of death we don't know.  CycloneGU (talk) 17:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Not dead?
Here the national tv said that her spokesman hasn't confirmed Amy Winehouse's death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.97.47.28 (talk) 18:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's being widely reported, although not officially confirmed quite yet. U-Mos (talk) 18:29, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

please add
Please add to External links: 99.50.186.196 (talk) 20:04, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:14, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Tony Bennett
Thx and one more. This is a video from two weeks ago of Tony Bennett talking about their recording session. It could be another ref at the end of Final projects which talks about that album. It starts at about 2:20 and he says she was his favourite to record with and they talked about Dinah Washington. It's really nice, especially because it was done earlier. 99.50.186.196 (talk) 20:20, 23 July 2011 (UTC) Tony Bennett on recording with Amy Winehouse for his new album of duets, The Guardian, 11 July 2011 That's the Guardian's YouTube link and this is The Guardian site link if that's better.

known for her powerful contralto vocals????
When I clicked on the Contralto link this is what it says:

"Contralto" is meaningful only in reference to classical and operatic singing, as other genres lack a system of vocal categorization comparable to that generally accepted in the classical context.

By that definition it seems wrong to categorize her singing as "Contralto". Should it be removed???--Brian Earl Haines (talk) 20:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * no, but the contralto entry should be edited. classical terms are regularly used, when appropriate, in other types of music. --Mongreilf (talk) 22:04, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Autopsy????
As the subject is from the UK the term autopsy should be changed to post mortem which is the correct UK term and not the Americanised version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.93.87 (talk) 21:52, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * ✅ thanks for pointing that out--5 albert square (talk) 22:01, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Anyone else see the porn at the bottom?
Or am I the only one who's getting pictures of flaccid male members? Bucinka (talk) 22:05, 23 July 2011 (UTC) I did. It has been taken off now. Some people are very tasteless and sick.


 * I saw it. I think one of the templates called in the external links section was hacked. I deleted the NYTimes template and no longer saw the porn, but I haven't verified that that edit was the one that fixed the issue. --Zippy (talk) 22:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Someone already fixed the vandalism on the template, so I restored it. I dunno why it isn't protected as a high risk template though. -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 22:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Found dead
She's been found dead, Sky News has confirmed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liquinn (talk • contribs) 16:27, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed: Amy Winehouse Found Dead In London Home: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Amy-Winehouse-Found-Dead-At-Home-In-Camden-London-Say-Sky-Sources/Article/201107416036201?lpos=Showbiz_News_First_Media_Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_16036201_Amy_Winehouse_Found_Dead_At_Home_In_Camden%2C_London%2C_Say_Sky_Sources DragonFire1024 (talk) 16:34, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The mail has it too; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2018020/Amy-Winehouse-confirmed-dead.html 2.26.10.98 (talk) 16:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Damn near everyone has it now. Even TMZ has it on their front page, and we know they're legit. :| MFTU (talk) 16:46, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

To see a tribute to Amy visit [url]http://grizzlybomb.com/2011/07/24/amy-winehouse-1983-2011/[/url] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michellelynn61 (talk • contribs) 13:53, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I would point out that there is no referenced source to back up the statement that Amy Winehouse died from a "suspected drug overdose". The linked source only says that her death is "unexplained". 80.176.88.21 (talk) 17:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Proposed category: Musicians/artists/celebrities in general who died at the age of twenty seven.
Seems very un-wikipedia to me, but perhaps it's worth throwing out there. Thoughts? 76.118.90.166 (talk) 17:22, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. It has the feel of conspiracy theory. I don't see any relevance for this in Amy's life and death. I'd vote to remove it.Savacek (talk) 17:29, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It does, however, seem to be a recognised phenomenon: 27 Club. Nick Cooper (talk) 17:34, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, no, no, no. Pointless category.  CycloneGU (talk) 17:43, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose agree per above, if created, then all age-related-deaths categories would be created. Why create a category that is based on point of views? There's no reliable source to dictate that phenomena. AJona1992 (talk) 17:46, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * An article about the 27 Club already exists and Amy gets a mention. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 18:32, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * This source predicted she would join the club. - - Problem is, do you consider it reliable. Rain the One  BAM 19:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Stupid idea, and has already been created and deleted at least twice (here and here).  Lugnuts  (talk) 19:24, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ever reliable source The Guardian report on this club 27.. . Rain the One  BAM 02:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Discussion of 2008 Racist Remarks
The phrase "June 2008 brought a report that Winehouse, singing a disparaging chant about blacks, the disabled, and homosexuals, and containing racial epithets about Pakistanis and Indians . . ." effectively sanitizes the scope of her comments. In fact, her song used the terms "nips" and "gooks," which are specific to Japanese and Koreans and in general about East Asians. The article should be amended to reflect this; otherwise, it appears that her racist comments only addressed blacks, Pakistanis, and Indians, minimizing them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gasfarty (talk • contribs) 20:45, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Eh? See gook. It has been used to refer to a large variety of different people including Haitians, Nicaraguans, Filipinos and yes Koreans but nowadays is most prominently associated with it's use during the Vietnam (a practice which somewhat continued after to refer to Vietnamese particularly Viet Cong. Nil Einne (talk) 16:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Move Protection
I can understand that the page has been semi protected as there has been some vandalism, but I have not seen any move vandalism so why is it move=sysop?. MrAmberGold (talk) 21:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't speak for the blocking admin, but from another admin's point of view, I would imagine it's because her article is quite high profile at the moment with her dying. I think it is also on or about to be on the main page so that could be another reason.  You'd be surprised what vandalism people will do to high profile articles.  Maybe the reason it's not been vandalised move-wise is because we've prevented that from happening?--5 albert square (talk) 21:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Some really high profile pages are move-protected despite no such vandalism. I believe this came about about after someone move-vandalized United States  which required developer intervention because there were so many edits to that particular page. 02:41, 24 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hbdragon88 (talk • contribs)


 * Actually, the simpler answer is "it's been move protected for yonks now, but due to a previous protection fubar I needed to remove all protection and then reinstate some"; see the logs. Ironholds (talk) 03:27, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Help - Can someone add to the article and external links for me?
This site has been locked for most editors of Wikipedia, so I will throw out a request to add some info to the article and the external links on my behalf:

"Fans have set up a memorial website to leave their thoughts about Amy Winehouse."

Site address: www.amy-winehouse-memorial.info

Brandondeshaw (talk) 23:11, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Done D4nnyw14 (talk) 23:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The requested site currently has almost no content, carries ads, and is registered to the same name as the single-edit user requesting it. I cannot see how it meets WP:EL and I don't think it is our job to drive traffic to this site. I'm removing it. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 23:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Oops sorry hadn't read the complete rules for EL's but have now and will be more careful in future D4nnyw14 (talk) 00:01, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries, thanks for the nice reply. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 00:14, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment: I have left this user a note. I am sure that they will let us know when their site meets WP:EL. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 11:13, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

big mistake
you put on the wiki page that amy winehouse won 6 grammys in 1 night for back to black tying for most won in a night. wrong, she won 5 for back to black which makes her second with a few others for most won in a night, first would be beyonce.
 * It says six nominations and five wins currently, which I believe is accurate. As to whether anyone has got more I don't know (I recall BBC news saying earlier it was the most a british female artist has ever achieved in one night, but obviously Beyonce doesn't fall under that category). U-Mos (talk) 23:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * See below Nil Einne (talk) 15:53, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 174.253.138.83, 24 July 2011
U2 dedicated their song "Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of" during the Minneapolis perfomance of the 360 Tour on July 23, 2010.

174.253.138.83 (talk) 05:01, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jnorton7558 (talk) 06:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Not done Hi. I found it in the Minneapolis newspaper which is a reliable source. And I added it to the article. Then I removed it, it seemed to draw way too much attention to U2 (no one else was even mentioned here). Sorry but not done. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Time of death
The article currently states that ambulences were called at 14:52 UTC.. is this consistent with this edit at 14:20 UTC, when an editor updated the article indicating she had died? Are we sure 14:52 UTC is the right time? Mlm42 (talk) 05:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that edit was made at 14:20 UTC, rather 16:20 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.91.152 (talk) 14:14, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Oops; yes. Thanks. Mlm42 (talk) 17:04, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Unworthy of Wikipedia's Main Page News
With no disrespect to the dead... but this event is so completely unworthy of the news on this site. The Norway terrorist bombing/shooting is completely worthy, and is truly world news. A quasi-popular controversial drug addicted singer dies? I think not. Why does Winehouse get this honour? Just seems odd.

I understand this isnt about the article on its own, but there is no other place to post this that I know of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.113.64.249 (talk) 06:00, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * By "quasi-popular" you mean multi-million selling: Back_to_Black. I think multi-million selling controversial drug addicted singers' deaths such as Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin AND Amy Winehouse are notable.--Mongreilf (talk) 07:33, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Completely biased statement. If a celebrities death spreads across the world with serious reactions then its inclusion in the main page is extremely notable. All news articles are on the template for a reason, just because someone who believes that because she was a drug addicted singer that she shouldn't be on there, is completely in your point-of-view which is not how Wikipedia goes by. AJona1992 (talk) 07:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

False information
I agree with the above post "big mistake" the information saying "Back to Black, led to six Grammy Award nominations and five wins, tying the record for the most wins by a female artist in a single night" is false information and should be changed to "most wins by a "British" female artist in a single night and "tying for most wins by a female artist in a single night" removed, since beyonce holds the record for "I am Sasha Fierce" which won 6 grammys in 2010 giving Beyonce most wins by a female artist in a single night. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geyejoe (talk • contribs) 07:01, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The info doesn't seem to be false, simply outdated or unclear. If Beyonce was the first to get six wins in 2010, then likely Amy Winehouse tied the record with 5 wins in 2006 (well unless she was the first to get 5 but it seems clear she wasn't). There are 2 references from 2008, one mentions she got 5 wins, the first British female singer to do so, but doesn't specifically mention it was also the then record. I presume the other reference does but it is currently a dead link. Either way, I don't see any actual evidence that disputes her wins in 2006 tied the existing record of 5 wins. And it's not clear to me if Beyonce later winning 6 makes the fact she tied the record at the time insignificant. Therefore I've left it in but added 'then' before record to make it clear she tied the record at the time, although it may have been later broken. Nil Einne (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Full Protection
Just to prevent any possibilty of vandalism, should the article be fully protected the whole article for 1 week?. MrAmberGold (talk) 09:38, 24 July 2011
 * No. We don't fully protect articles because of hypothetical issues Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:22, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

restructuring needed
Once things settle down, the article needs to be restructured. It has some sections (e.g., "Influence on music industry" and "Controversies") which don't actually say anything. And more importantly, there is no reason to separate her live performances from the rest of her career: it would be hard to do this now, but the live performance info should be folded into the main career narrative. Timothy Horrigan (talk) 17:27, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Ecstasy?
Only one of the sources after the mentions of her death being an ecstasy overdose actually even mentions ecstasy, and it's hearsay — not a confirmation from the police or a coroner. This should be removed until it is verified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.172.24.50 (talk) 22:21, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Only one source mentions 'ecstasy' overdose as a possible cause of death and they mention it as a suggestion from a celebrity source of theirs. Fucking sketchy journalism. Ecstasy probably had very little to directly influence her death.

I agree no one has ever died from an ecstasy overdose, just from dance floors where it is hot and dehydration plays a big part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.116.199 (talk) 23:19, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Ignoring the pov on drug side effects... The source doesn't know for sure - this is because a post mortem will reveal the exact way she died - so not to be included right now. Rain the One  BAM 23:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

27, an -apparently- critical age
This section is pretty silly and I'm sure it constitutes original research — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.161.156.122 (talk) 18:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Her career as such does not warrant her inclusion in the so-called 27 Club with the superstars listed there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.62.95 (talk) 03:21, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia's own page on the 27 Club has only the original legendary members listed as in that club. The comment about her being in the 27 club is wrong, instead she's another musician who died at 27. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.242.88 (talk) 10:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Posthumous/Third Album
"Amy had recently completed her third album but the release date was delayed by Island Records when she went into rehab." Daily Mail - Amy Winehouse Dead

"And now there’s talk that as much as half of what would have been her long awaited new album has been recorded and will presumably be released posthumously in some fashion at some point." Beatweek - Amy Winehouse Posthumous Material

would this go under her discography section as TBA (Unknown) or something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hecanonlyholdher (talk • contribs) 03:51, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * None of those sources are reliable. Edkollin (talk) 04:14, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/25/us-britain-winehouse-idUSTRE76M2DI20110725 ah, is reuters reliable enough? "Her spokesman said it was unclear what use would be made of her unreleased recordings. But a posthumous album would seem inevitable given her huge popularity."Hecanonlyholdher (talk) 04:48, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Let us wait until we find more information about this posthumous album. Even this Reuter article reveals that there are no warrant an album will be posthumously released. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫  Share– a–  Power[citation needed] 17:12, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder?
Came to Wikipedia to verify what someone claimed on a news site: that Winehouse was bipolar. Now, Wikipedia editors wouldn't throw around terms for brownie points, and I saw nothing in the article saying "she was officially diagnosed with bipolar disorder by Dr. So-in-so on such and such a date" at General Hospital. But I want to get a positive answer. Is there a reliable source stating that she had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, or not?

And before any question why I ask this about a just-dead woman: everyone with a mental illness is hurt when laypeople feel free to throw labels at the famous. John and Jane Public don't have fame to protect them. -75.57.7.223 (talk) 04:14, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi. I found only an interview in which Winehouse called herself manic depressive (a term I think is preferred sometimes to bipolar in the U.K.) and added a news report that quotes her. Here's the inteview on YouTube uploaded by somebody other than the TV show so we can't use that. I too would like to find another source. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:13, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Susan. That lends a bit of credence, but self-labeling or self-diagnosis with regard to MI is tricky. She could have called herself manic-depressive based on a professional diagnosis, but she could have also called herself a banana, or the Queen.  In any case, I appreciate your efforts. -75.57.7.223 (talk) 02:41, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Please stop restoring the condolences section
WP:3RR has already been broken. We do not keep a section with the condolences of friends on other dead people for a reason: it's unencyclopedic tabloid-worthy hogwash. If I wasn't at my cottage on my phone I would have opened a case on this but instead Ill kindly request for you to remove it or provide a good reason (besides "it's sourced") for keeping the subsection in the article. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  04:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * WP:3RR was broken? Really? By whom? WWGB (talk) 07:59, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * By you. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  23:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

There's a big difference between condolences and tributes. The quotes fron Ronson and Carole King should be there somewhere. It may still be hogwash, but it's notable hogwash. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:09, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, they're generic "sad to see you go"s that every single famous person has received upon their death. That's why our featured articles, such as Michael Jackson, don't contain them. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  23:23, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if Ronson deserves no soundbite, I'm sure nobody else does. And guess what - they just might be sad. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:28, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, and that's not noteworthy on an encyclopedia. It is on E! or the various magazines that cover hollywood indepth, but not Wikipedia. Incorporating a select few into a "Reaction" section may be appropriate, but just a list of quotes with no apparent criteria for inclusion is A) asking for trouble with pointless quotes from nobodies compiling up, B) WP:TRIVIA and C) the fact that these comments will likely not be looked back upon with any regard in a months time, let alone a year or five; they are just generic condolences and not a release of information relevant to the circumstances of her death. What would be noteworthy is a very close friend saying "Ah she had it coming" or something equally outlandish. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  00:17, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, what of the condolence(s) pertaining to Lennon's death, especially Macca's? Would you not agree that their personal and professional history/relationship was germane to an encyclopedic, un-biased, article of The Beatles - and that relationship was indeed a major impact on the groups dynamic, music, public image, etc? Especially the context of Paul's response, "...a drag man..", manifesting a still very complex relationship. Trathus (talk) 10:50, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What would you say to adding a little of the family statement? Also her mother has said she was with her the day before and realised she was going to die soon - she said "was out of it" at the time.. It could directly flow into the the following events. Rain the One  BAM 00:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You may wish to look up the full statement if you can find it. Tabloids love to twist words to make things more interesting. However, it seems like it would be very noteworthy if her mom is indeed saying "it was only a matter of time." -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  00:42, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Bisexual
Please remove the part about Amy's bisexuality. The reference is from a News of the World webpage that no longer exists. Besides I believe that stories from certain tabloids should not be fully relied upon. Especially when they pay money to create sensationalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice Balls (talk • contribs) 11:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ That ref link simply said "Thank you and goodbye". Sort of sums it up really. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:32, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * To follow up, the LGBT categories at the bottom of the article have also been removed. Normally I don't touch articles on the recently deceased (it's way out of my project area), but since there was no referenceable info within the article about this, the categories had to go.  Thegreatdr (talk) 13:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But now they're back, along with a text description. But the source is merely a second-hand report of what the TNOTW claimed. Is everyone happy with this just resting on this one so-say second-hand source? There's no mention of Amy's mobile voice mail, but one can't help but wonder. Don't suppose even Wikipedia can do a global expunging of one disgraced news source? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:57, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And there it goes again. (Shame really - I always thought "LGBT Jews" sounded like one hell of a Canadian ice hockey team). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * haha, that made me laugh XD. It actually doesn't sound that bad :P-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫  Share– a–  Power[citation needed] 11:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Overdose?
Lots of articles. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 00:20, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Mostly speculation by tabloids, blogs, and a few more reliable sources saying essentially that "tabloids are speculating that...." Why not wait a day for an autopsy, and something that is verifiable? Putting that type of tabloid speculation into an encyclopedia article, before it's verified, is also not very respectful to family and friends, but I think I'm very unwikipedian in that regard. First Light (talk) 02:34, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, somebody did put that in, and it got the WP article mentioned in Reuters. Depending on who you are, it's either notoriety for the site, or a cautionary tale about why we can't just dump things into articles. MSJapan (talk) 20:42, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I just meant keep and eye on the news reports. It's either that or emphysema, it sounds like.  I think they've decided not let it be known for a while, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 21:04, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification - someone did put into the lede that it was an overdose, and I had removed it after it was up for less than 15 minutes. I wonder if Reuters only saw that version, or maybe it was put in and removed a few times. Anyway, it is a cautionary tale about using only reliable sources and waiting for verification from an official autopsy for the cause of someone's death. First Light (talk) 21:21, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you link the Reuters article? Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 21:23, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I found this. First Light (talk) 21:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Sound Clip player Malfunctions
With Firefox 3.6, WinXP, the Sound Clip player Malfunctions. Volume will not adjust. The impossibly jerky control has only max vol or mute, nothing in between. Sounds like hell. (I'm guessing a Firefox incompatibility.) --68.127.87.182 (talk) 06:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)Doug Bashford
 * Strange, I have exactly the same problem, Win Vista, Firefox 3.6. It's worth a try to ask this question on the Help desk or better on the Technical Village Pump. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫  Share– a–  Power[citation needed] 17:06, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Reference [7] Current Link for Dead Link
Apologies in advance, my 1st time here. Wondering about her health, Reference [7] has a dead link. Here is a current one with the same information at that time: http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-06-23-amy-winehouse_N.htm
 * ✅-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫  Share– a–  Power[citation needed] 17:01, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

why was this replaced?
The slideshow doesn't link to the main article. 75.60.19.193 (talk) 17:20, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ I don't think we ever had this link. It's a good one so I swapped it in for the slide show. Thanks! -SusanLesch (talk) 17:59, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ I don't think we ever had this link. It's a good one so I swapped it in for the slide show. Thanks! -SusanLesch (talk) 17:59, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse's death sparks reactions to her from celebrities at Twitter and an increase of sales?
I read news about Amy Winehouse's death, but I also found news about sales of her discography increasing rapidly after her death. There was also news about various celebrities talking about her on Twitter. Can you add this stuff to the article with sources? Txiиg$ Tx/-\t VV!ll +  8I+E   17:49, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Katherinesayce, 25 July 2011
Please change "She later attended the BRIT School in Selhurst, Croydon[21] and attended Southgate School and Ashmole School.[22][23]" to "She later attended The Mount School, Mill Hill and then the BRIT School, Croydon" because The Mount is where she went after being asked to leave Sylvia Young, as I am a former pupil of The Mount and she did her GCSEs there (covering her whereabouts from the age of 14-16). It has also been mentioned in old newspaper/magazine articles (The Daily Mail:EXCLUSIVE: Amy Winehouse's mother explains why she feels powerless to stop her troubled daughter’s descent into hell of addiction; Jewish Chronicle:Amy Winehouse found dead at age 27; Inependent:Amy Winehouse: The new queen of pop; Mirror:Amy Winehouse - a talent dogged by self destruction; Telegraph:Amy Winehouse). I honestly don't know where Southgate and Ashmole came from and I don't know if she attended the BRIT school but I have read that she went there after the Mount so I can only assume that part is true.

Katherinesayce (talk) 18:49, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks. The Telegraph is a good source and agreed with you. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:07, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Discography section
I think the discography section on this main article should just be alink to the actual discography page and the two albums "Frank" & "Back to Black" like it is on most other artists pages. Having a list of singles is pointless clutter and just takes away from the propper discography page and also the writing is unnecessary when it's already on the main main discography page. --Duphin (talk) 22:35, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Live Performances
I'm puzzled as to why this section of the article ignores the UK tours she did in 2003 and 2004 to promote her first album, Frank? I saw her on both tours, and am happy to provide more info if needed.

86.147.167.226 (talk) 23:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Sylvia Young, expelled?
Just heard Sylvia Young, on Radio 5 Live say Amy was very intelligent, got bored easily, then said 'she changed schools at 15,.. Ive heard it said she was expelled, she wasn't....I'd never have expelled Amy.."Sayerslle (talk) 00:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Different news sources said this. Also, what are you trying to say? That you personally did not expell her? Confusing. Rain the One  BAM 02:13, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, there's quote marks there. The user is stating what someone else said.  Nevertheless, it's also called "not speaking ill of the dead", and hagiography has no place in an encyclopedia.  Put more simply, memories are faulty, especially under pressure.  Let the statement be backed up with some sort of RS (as opposed to " said...", and that's a different story.  However, as the initial statement was cited, we would have to include both of them. MSJapan (talk) 02:16, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There is one closing quote mark.. Anyway, it shouldn't be added as most news sources refute that claim at present. So yes, wait until that recieves greater correction amongst sources. Rain the One  BAM 02:21, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sylvia Young stated that Amy's mother removed her from the school MacStep (talk) 04:59, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree with not mentioning this at all. I don't know it, but surely there's a proper way to cite radio sources? Just add a clause after the current sentence explaining that Young denies Amy was expelled. It's not for us to suggest that she may be mistaken. U-Mos (talk) 10:31, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's also not for us to suggest she is right. When a few reliable sources match - it should be changed. Rain the One  BAM 17:17, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Saying she denied it isn't suggesting she's right, just that it's what she said. U-Mos (talk) 19:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

The Faces
"The Faces dedicated their July 23 gig to Winehouse"

Why is this line here? The Faces are not really a popular band, especially compared to Amy Winehouse. I don't think the line adds any relevant information on her death.

Rejdovak (talk) 02:45, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Erm, The Faces are the band fronted by the human being that has been seen by more people, face to face, than anyone else in history. They may not have any new product on the shelves at them moment but they are rather more famous than Amy Winehouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.137.78 (talk) 17:55, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You realize that is utter nonsense? Stewart was popular but there are many, many more rock artists that had greater numbers at the gate; additionally, there are public figures in politics, etc., that billions of people are familiar with, some "good" and some evil - Stewart is a musician, and has a set level of fans. We could cite ref's here, but that would be pointless to this particular article. HammerFilmFan (talk) 18:51, 25 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan


 * I'm talking about Ronnie Wood, who is also in Rolling Stones. I don't believe Rod is on the Faces tour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.194.95 (talk) 08:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Agreed -- way too many references to tweets by famous and supposedly famous people about her death. Most, if not all of these entries add no encyclopedic-level value to this entry.

Areback (talk) 03:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Lady Gaga on Winehouse's influence
The following is an extract from this source Worldwide pop superstar Lady Gaga later credited Winehouse with opening the door for artists who dared to be different.

"I will always have a very deep love for Amy Winehouse," she told AOL. "Because of Amy, very strange girls like me go to prom with very good-looking guys. She's a different kind of woman. I don't believe that what I do is very digestible, and somehow Amy was the flu for pop music."

"And everybody got a little bit of the flu and got over it, and fell in love with Amy Winehouse. And now, when more flu comes along, it's not so unbearable." Lady Gaga sums up Winehouse so well. She, and tons of other female artists, would not be in such a position without Winehouse. Winehouse paved the way. I think this is notable to add in the "infuence on the music industry" section. Stephenjamesx (talk) 09:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * So, Winehouse was like an infectious disease... in a world where success for a woman means being taken to the prom by a good looking guy? Hmmm, does tis say more about Winehouse or about Gaga? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:42, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

It can only say something about Gaga as Winehouse had nothing to do with the quote and doesn't mention proms or guys' looks. In fact, it doesn't even say anything about Gaga - the only person who decided that "being taken to the prom by a good looking guy" equated success was the person who decided that Gaga quote was a metaphor. I feel that on the page, one reader's interpretation of Lady Gaga's "metaphor" is exactly that - an interpretation - and should not have someone's personal translation on the wikipedia page as if it was fact that Gaga was referring to the music industry. I personally don't believe the statement was a mataphor for the music industry but, regardless, its inclusion should not be allowed when backed up by a metaphorical statement that, literally, isn't the source of the article's quote. Doobystew (talk) 10:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Shucks. And there was me thinking it was just AOL journalistic hype. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Guys, open your minds a bit. Stephenjamesx (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're right, maybe we need a section headed "Amy Winehouse's Influenza"? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 24 July 2011 (UTC)


 * CAN WE FOR ONCE, LEAVE LADY GAGA OUT OF THIS? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hecanonlyholdher (talk • contribs) 01:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Lady GaGa comments above were made by herself - In 2009 though, found two different occasions she praised Amy - so this isn't to do with her death. Rain the One  BAM 03:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I suggest we cast a vote to remove Stephenjamesx comments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.131.62 (talk) 06:31, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Removal from Main Page "In the news"
It may be the case that she's international news, but only for being prominent in the Celebrity Gossip world, seeing as she's more famous for self-destructive behavior, and featuring her in the front page seems to celebrate that fact. OOODDD (talk) 05:53, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Where does the name "Winehouse" come from???
Where does the name "Winehouse" come from? Were her ancestors involved in alcohol production/distribution??? Thanks in advance to anybody that knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.232.5 (talk) 11:30, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, wikipedia was an online encyclopedia, not a question-and-answer service. You might wanna check out WikiAnswers. Polozooza (talk) 11:57, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the smarta$$ reply. If you might notice, many bios note where the name came from.  Also, if you might notice, she was a very heavy drinker and apparently died from a combination that included lots of alcohol.  If so, I thought it might be appropriate to add where the name comes from.  What you are doing (your answer) is not really appreciated at Wikipedia.  But thanks anyway.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.232.5 (talk) 12:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I do believe that it is, for lack of a better description, Jewish. The name Winestein or Wisenthal etc would usually be Jewish.  As a matter of fact "Amy Winehouse Dead: Family Honoring Jewish Tradition" ibtimes .  It probably leads back to Germany, as many European Jews once lived there before...you know. --208.54.7.133 (talk) 13:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is probably a name in Yiddish language. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫  Never–get–out–of–these–blues-alive 15:33, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Polozooza's comment is not helpful. This is certainly a useful question, and if anybody could lay their hands on some information about the history of her family it could certainly be included in the article. I'm not sure that there is any link with Winestein (more likely Weinstein) or Wiesenthal (note spelling), but, yes, it is clearly the anglicised form of Weinhaus, which would be German or, more likely I think, Yiddish. If it is Yiddish I don't see any reason to trace the family to Germany. They could just as easily be Polish, for example.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 01:09, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Just as a note, that ibtimes article should not be used, because it is factually inaccurate if the headline is truly what they are claiming. Jewish tradition prohibits tattooing of the body as well as cremation after death. MSJapan (talk) 00:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The International Business Times is accurate that Jewish tradition suggests that "...a deceased body be buried as soon as possible." Bus stop (talk) 01:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Controversy sections are bad form
That controversy section needs to be integrated into the rest of the article. Per Criticism sections, that section is not ideal. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:40, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * We should start by renaming the section "Public Image" image and proceed from there. A lot of the material is about her image. If no objection in the next few days I will change it and add a subsection about the role of the media and split some unrelated material into separate paragraphs. Edkollin (talk) 21:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

"Legal Troubles" - Weasel Words?
"She and her former husband, Blake Fielder-Civil, were plagued by legal troubles that left him serving prison time"

Er, what? "The husband of Amy Winehouse is facing a lengthy prison sentence after admitting brutally beating a pub landlord and trying to pervert the course of justice." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1025207/Amys-husband-faces-jail-admits-attack-pub-landlord-perverting-course-justice.html#ixzz1TE83Q6sz

Serious criminal convictions for violence and perjury are not "legal troubles" and that form of words just serves to belittle the seriousness of the crimes. Can we change this sentence to better reflect the criminal records of the subject and her partner, rather than this apologetic gloss. Almagpie (talk) 15:51, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. When I read 'legal troubles', not knowing the nature of the crimes, I assumed that he had served seven days for non-payment of stamp duty, or something equally trivial. Grievous bodily harm and perverting the course of justice are two of the most serious offences in English law, both carrying maximum sentences of life imprisonment.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 02:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Dionne Bromfield's godmother?
At what age did Amy Winehouse become Dionne Bromfield's godmother? Godparents are appointed when Christians baptize infants or young children. Winehouse was only about twelve years older than Bromfield, so must have become her godmother unusually young, perhaps aged around twelve or thirteen. I am also confused because Winehouse was Jewish, confirmed by her Jewish funeral. Was she a Messianic Jew? Or is Bromfield also Jewish? But the Jews do not, as far as I understand, have godparents. Perhaps Winehouse played some role in Bromfield's Zeved habat? There are also not many black Jews, apart from the Beta Israel. How did Winehouse come to know the Bromfield family? I am confused.

I am also posting this question here: Talk:Dionne_Bromfield.

In case anybody wonders why this is relevant to the article, her relationship to Bromfield is mentioned in the article, which I think requires explanation, as the relationship is far from obvious (a 27-year-old Jew being godmother to a 15-yr-old Christian). Also, it may raise facts that need to be incorporated into the article, e.g. if Winehouse was in fact a convert to Christianity.

--Oxonian2006 (talk) 00:04, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Back when "Yeah Right" was released I thought I saw a quote saying that Dionnie Bromfield's father was Jewish. I have not been able to find the source. This would make Dionnie half-cast, which can be seen in her skin colour. Bromfield also sounds like an anglisiced German-Jewish name, so its plausible. I guess we just have to wait for an interview to find out. Colt .55 (talk) 10:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Answering this question is going to require SYNTHESIS, but your question is not well-put at all. Jewish is not a race as far as census forms are concerned (and I'm not touching the politics); one is not "half-cast" by having parents of two different religious faiths. Jews do not have godparents, but by tradition, it is the religion of the mother that decides the religion of the child.  Bromfield is also a town in Shropshire, and another in Cumbria, and the name of a number of people of English nationality, so naively assuming it's "German-Jewish" is ridiculous.  Lastly, Winehouse having tattoos and being cremated are not in keeping with Jewish tradition, nor did she ever comment on her religion at all.  So if you're trying to prove some silly point with conjecture, it likely will not hold up. MSJapan (talk) 00:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * First, the term is 'half-caste', not 'half-cast'. Secondly, it is considered offensive in most of the Anglophone world. Better to say 'mixed race'. According to this article, Bromfield's father is Jamaican (probably, though not necessarily, black), her mother English (not necessarily white). I'd be surprised if her father were to be Jewish, though it is of course not impossible. I agree that the supposed German or Yiddish origin of the name Bromfield seems unlikely, given its well attested existence as an English name.


 * I am not sure why MSJapan says that my question 'is not well-put at all'. I did not suggest that being Jewish was a racial attribute. What I did suggest is the quite valid point that there are very few black Jews, other than the Ethiopians, who represent a small proportion of the world's Jews. Furthermore, I am not sure why we are discussing census forms: they are not the infallible guide to the nature of racial identity.


 * I am not sure what 'silly point' MSJapan thinks that I, or Colt .55, am trying to prove 'with conjecture'. I note that he has commented elsewhere on this page about Winehouse's tattoos and her cremation, criticising what seems to be a perfectly good article in IBTimes. According to Cremation, Liberal and Reform Jews do permit cremation. Nobody is claiming that Winehouse was an Orthodox Jew. Tattoo does indeed state that Jews are forbidden tattoos, but that does not mean that somebody who has been tattooed is not a Jew. I daresay Jewish law also forbids abuse of drugs and alcohol, but again, failing to uphold the law surely does not deprive somebody of the status of a Jew. Stephen Fry, for example, is Jewish, but is also an atheist and a homosexual.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 02:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I know what the term is - I wasn't the one who spelled it incorrectly in the first place. There are multiple speculations going on above about who was what to who based on whose religion and whose parents are what.  I find the term "half-caste" offensive, and I see no reason to use it at all, much less in a context where the purpose was apparently not to denigrate the subject.  The operating assumptions made about who was what to who require guesses as to level of observance on both parties, and as was finally pointed out, we don't really know.
 * That's my point, and "maybe she did this, and maybe she was that", with no proof whatsoever is idle speculation and has no place in an encyclopedia. That lack of knowledge is also why I don't consider IBTimes to be RS.  A "traditional" Jewish funeral does not end with a cremation, because it adheres to the more orthodox approach, which be definition a Reform or Liberal approach is not.  The inherent contradiction in the headline tells me the paper is not qualified to make that sort of statement.  Those inherent contradictions, coupled with a total lack of statement on the part of the subject or family on their beliefs means that the entire line of inquiry requires synthesis, and doesn't substantially add to the article anything of value.  Hence my use of the word "silly." MSJapan (talk) 05:51, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You seem to be determined to believe that there is only one form of Judaism. Reform Jews and Liberal Jews are just as much Jews as Orthodox Jews are. The Winehouse family evidently adhere to one of the less traditional forms of Judaism. Did you see the kippot that her father, and other male mourners, were wearing at the funeral? Did you read that part of the funeral was conducted in Hebrew? Did you read that the family would be sitting Shiva (Judaism), albeit for two, rather than seven, days? Now, the very valid point that has been raised is that (a) it is very unlikely the Dionne Bromfield is Jewish, (b) when somebody is a godparent it is almost always the case that this refers to his or her role in sponsoring a child in a rite of Christian baptism, and (c) if Amy Winehouse was anybody's godmother it is implicit that she must at the time of baptism of her godchild she must herself have been a baptised Christian. So, assuming that Dionne Bromfield did not acquire a godmother through some Jewish ritual, was Amy Winehouse a Christian at some point in her life? If she did convert from Judaism to Christianity this is information that would be very interesting in this article.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 11:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You seem to be determined to conflate two items. The IBTimes article is a different issue than Bromfield.  I am well aware of the streams of Judaism, thank you very much, and you just said yourself that the Winehouses adhere to a "less traditional" form.  Therefore, IBTimes saying they were "traditional" is, by your own admission, wrong.  That is precisely the point I was making - if the source is wrong, it cannot be considered reliable.
 * The Bromfield material is, as I said, speculative and nonsensical, mainly because you've already spun over to talking about conversion to Christianity and following nonexistent logic trails based on absolutely no shred of evidence whatsoever. MSJapan (talk) 14:52, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * MSJapan—you refer to the "…total lack of statement on the part of the subject or family on their beliefs…" I just want to point out that "beliefs" are optional, not essential, to Judaism. A Jew is a person who was either born Jewish or who has converted to Judaism. I think that what you mean to say is that you have not seen a statement on the part of Amy Winehouse that she is (was) Jewish. But it is also possible that she simply never articulated that in a public space. There are certainly strong indications of Jewish family identity. I am not claiming that anyone is or is not Jewish as I am more ignorant on the topic of Amy Winehouse and the Winehouse family than most of you. But the presence of so many kippot on the heads of close family at the funeral indeed tends to indicate that the family is Jewish. This is just one factor of many factors and perhaps they are not Jewish. Bus stop (talk) 15:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Imbalances in the article
There is far too much in this article about what happened to her around 2008 ( including every possible legal issue listed in exhaustive detail ), and virtually nothing about her life from 2009-11. She may not have been performing much during that period, but she was intermittently recording and doing other things. There are also far too few first-hand accounts from friends and associates throughout this article ( and particularly from that period ) and too much in the way of assertion  from  critics.

Heartylunch (talk) 13:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll raise the issue again about contralto
It doesn't seem valid to discribed her vocals at the top of the page as Contralto and put a link to the definition of Contralto when the definition is this:

"Contralto" is meaningful only in reference to classical and operatic singing, as other genres lack a system of vocal categorization comparable to that generally accepted in the classical context.

As far as I know she is not a classical nor opera singer--Brian Earl Haines (talk) 22:49, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

The definition of bouncer
i've read her "bouncer" found her dead in her home.does the word bouncer mean something in england that i'm not aware of? Smokiewight (talk) 02:12, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * A Bouncer is a kind of security guard who tends to be characterised as big and mean looking. It's really slang and shouldn't be used here, Security guard would make more sense. --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 22:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ - bouncers are security on the doors of bars, nightclubs, concerts etc. Winehouse's security guard was employed to protect her personally, not to protect a venue or business. Jim Michael (talk) 16:39, 6 August 2011 (UTC)