Talk:Anbar campaign (2003–2011)/Archive 1

Plan of attack
My plan of attack is to rewrite this whole article in order, section by section, whenever I have the time (and bandwidth). I'm active-duty in an infantry battalion, so it may take a while. If I throw in a section that looks like slop, it's because I'm just getting the framework in place. Palm_Dogg (talk) 03:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Campaign Ending
Can you get any citation for the campaign ending on August 14, 2007? Some other possibles:
 * September 2007 - My battalion conducted some of the final clearing operations of AQI strongholds (complete with combat). President Bush makes his only visit to the province and declares victory.
 * April 2008 - Two Marines killed defending their base from an AQI suicide bomber. Later posthumously awarded the Navy Cross.
 * June 2008 - The only USMC battalion commander to be killed in OIF is killed in a suicide bombing in Anbar.
 * September 2008 - Governance for Anbar province is formally handed over to the Iraqis.
 * June 30, 2009 - Security for Anbar province is formally handed over to the Iraqis. All US combat personnel formally leave Iraqi cities.
 * July 2009 - The last US serviceman is killed in combat in Al Anbar (as of this date).
 * January 2010 - The Marine Corps formally ends its presence in Anbar.
 * August 2010 - All US combat troops in Anbar are scheduled to depart.

Palm_Dogg (talk) 00:53, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Copyedit
I took a run through this very informative article. Here are some observations:

In the section Iraq War in Anbar Province I left the word "catalyst" but I think it may be too strong.
 * If you want me to add more sources I will, but everything I've read points to that specific event as the trigger event (followed several weeks later by CPA Orders 1 & 2) that launched the insurgency. Palm_Dogg (talk) 18:53, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

In the section Iraq War in Anbar Province, I left the sentence " However, CPA funds for the province were inadequate." I think it should either have some support (an example, a consequence...) or be removed.
 * Added example. Palm_Dogg (talk) 18:53, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The section Iraq War in Anbar Province mentions "Clear, Hold, Build" as the strategy, attributing to McMasters. However, neither H. R. McMaster or List of military strategies and concepts mention the strategy.
 * I don't know if McMaster invented CHB or heard about it somewhere else, but he was the first US commander in Iraq to use it (the article specifically refers to it as a "new strategy"). This PBS documentary talks more about it (Chapter 5, at the 4:51m mark). Palm_Dogg (talk) 23:07, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Lfstevens (talk) 18:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I just had a quick look, and noticed something that I am not sure about. In referring to Saddam Hussein, this article alternates between the family name (Saddam) and the given name (Hussein.) I notice the Saddam Hussein article largely sticks with Saddam, unless it is differentiating between family members. I would think the family name more appropriate to Wikipedia. Rumiton (talk) 04:20, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 00:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Wedding Party Bombing
OK, this particular line got some negative feedback, so I'm putting it here to determine exactly what we can prove:

"On 19 May 2004, 42 Iraqis were killed near Al Qaim when American planes mistakenly bombed a wedding party."

Here are my sources:







"'A few years earlier, Mattis had been awakened around midnight by an intelligence officer who showed him infrared images of an encampment near the Syrian border. Mattis said to bomb them and went back to sleep. The next day, amidst allegations that Americans had bombed a wedding party, an investigating officer asked Mattis how long he had deliberated.  Thirty seconds, Mattis said.'"

So, how should the sentence read in the article, and which sources should I cite? Palm_Dogg (talk) 15:23, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Front Page work
I've updated all the dead links available on the Wayback Machine; however there are two PDF books which were not available, as well as the Washington Post articles. For the Post links, is it appropriate to simply de-link the citations without the page number of the actual paper? Also, what to do about the online books? I'd like to see this article fully ready to run on the front page for the 10th anniversary of the conflict (March 20th).--Chimino (talk) 00:30, 13 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The Marines just moved their PDF's, so I've added the new links, but the Washington Post is putting all their pre-2005 stuff behind a paywall. I'm not sure for those yet, but I'll see if anyone else has tackled the problem.  Thanks! Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Date order
I was surprised, as a UK based reader, to see an article about an event primarily of US balance among anglophone interests using the date format 28 April 2003. I read at MOSNUM that "articles on the modern US military use day before month, in accordance with military usage": if that is the reason for the date format, then I would suggest that this betrays a POV in the article. This article is about a war in which the US was one of the belligerents, it is not about the US military. To present it as being about the US is not to take an NPOV approach to the subject matter. What date format should we use? Kevin McE (talk) 07:31, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It could be as well simply that it was the first date order used (or that it's the format preferred in Arabic countries; I don't know). I'd argue the misplaced US-centric nature of the article is more glaringly evident from the fact that the title is "Iraq War in Anbar Province", which it then goes on to define explicitly and simply as "a [US/Iraqi govt] counterinsurgency campaign". Well no – and as the first para itself subsequently acknowledges – the "war in Anbar Province" obviously comprised two aspects: an insurgency and a counterinsurgency.  N-HH   talk / edits  09:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think my biases as an Iraq War veteran are pretty obvious, but I went out of my way to make it as NPOV as possible. If you think something needs to be changed, I'm all ears.  Also, the modern U.S. military uses YYYYMMDD format; I just happen to like the DDMMMYYYY format. Palm_Dogg (talk) 21:21, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations...
...and thanks to everyone who made this article the featured article of the day. It's quite a work. —  AjaxSmack  01:39, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Americans vs US
If WP follows the reasoning that Americans are those that have citizenship then the term American or Americans should not be a substitute for US troops because serving in the US armed forces is not contingent on holding citizenship. In fact it can be an entre to citizenship for non-citizens.66.74.176.59 (talk) 08:21, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Slanted quotes
Anyone else think that prefacing sections with quotes that obviously support a certain narrative of this history create an incredibly subjective article? BigTwoHearted (talk) 11:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

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