Talk:Andover, Kansas

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Sbmeirow (talk) 05:21, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Andover in Sedgwick County?
Since when has Andover been in Sedgwick County? As a resident of Andover the city limit signs for Andover only appear At the County line for Butler Co, and cannot find any documentation that Andover exists in Sedgwick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.102.214.18 (talk) 04:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Per Andover city hall, the borders of Andover is officially NOT in Sedgwick county. The wikipedia problem comes from a U.S. Census Bureau mistake, and the corrections hasn't migrated out to documents on their internet site yet. I'll copy some of our discusion over here in the next few days. Sbmeirow (talk) 19:22, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Why did you add Sedgwick County back to Andover? When did Andover migrate into Sedgwick county?  If I am wrong, then please provide evidence.
 * Their city website says "10 square mile City in Western Butler County": http://www.andoverks.com/
 * Their map shows the word "county line" in the lower-left corner of this file: http://www.andoverks.com/DocumentView.asp?DID=491
 * Sbmeirow (talk) 07:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I have to run, so I can't reply at length. Please look at the article's infobox: the Census Bureau source in the "counties" line shows that the city has some residents in each county, and obviously you can't live in a specific city and in a specific county if the city isn't in that county.  Nyttend (talk) 11:57, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I sent an email to the email address on the home page of the City of Andover web page and got this response.
 * Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 08:22:41 -0600
 * Subject: RE: Is any part of Andover located in Sedgwick County? PLEASE REPLY!
 * The corporate city limits for the City of Andover do not go into Sedgwick County, however the Andover school district boundary does. Herein lays the confusion for most.  The city proper is only located within Butler County, but the school district is in both counties.  As to the census info, we have corrected this information with the census bureau.  I cannot answer the question on why their published information still shows parts of Andover in Sedgwick County, but perhaps the new census info, which should be out soon will reflect the correct corporate boundary for Andover.  Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have further questions or comments.
 * Sasha Stiles, City Administrator, City of Andover
 * Sbmeirow (talk) 14:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Unlike official Census Bureau documents, emails are not reliable sources — unless the Census Bureau changes the information on its statistical charts, we must follow what it says, for our relevant policy page requires our articles to be based on reliable sources. Nyttend (talk) 15:12, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * (talk page stalker) If the City administrator were to have that information published in a reliable source, then we could include it on Wikipedia. We're not saying the Administrator is not reliable, it's that the email can't verify the information because it doesn't qualify as a reliable source.  While we want to be as correct as possible in WP articles, we are more concerned with readers being able to reliably verify statements.  While, yes, you or I could contact the City of Andover, we can't write in the article "(please contact the Andover City Administrator to confirm this information)".  Qwyrxian (talk) 21:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The above Andover links state only the word Butler County, but no references about Sedgwick county. The following Sedgwick county web page doesn't list Andover as part of their county on the right side of the page. http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/visitors.asp The following Andover document clearly talks about not being able to cover Sedgwick county in the study, because the city is not located in that county. See page 11, section called "legal basis" of http://www.andoverks.com/common/modules/documentcenter2/documentview.asp?DID=33 Andover is not claiming to be part of Sedgwick county, nor is Sedgwick county claiming that Andover is part of it, thus it is pretty darn obvious the census document is wrong. Sbmeirow (talk) 07:03, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Unlike official Census Bureau documents, emails are not reliable sources — unless the Census Bureau changes the information on its statistical charts, we must follow what it says, for our relevant policy page requires our articles to be based on reliable sources. Nyttend (talk) 9:10, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It is my conclusion that you are wrong! There is too much proof that Andover exists ONLY in Butler County.  It is nothing personal against you, but I want you to prove that Andover exists in Sedgwick County with recent documents.  I reverted your changes, because you haven't proven your argument with RECENT documents.  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •  06:36, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * This web page lists Andover ONLY in Butler County:
 * http://www.andoverks.com/ (City of Andover official website)


 * Both of these official documents ONLY list Butler County:
 * http://www.andoverks.com/common/modules/documentcenter2/documentview.asp?DID=32
 * http://www.andoverks.com/common/modules/documentcenter2/documentview.asp?DID=44


 * Both of these maps shows Andover ONLY in Butler County:
 * http://www.ksdot.org/burtransplan/maps/city-pdf/andover.pdf (Kansas Department of Transportation)
 * http://www.andoverks.com/DocumentView.asp?DID=491


 * This web page lists Andover ONLY in Butler County:
 * http://www.lkm.org/directory/cities.php?ID=607 (League of Kansas Municipalities)
 * This web page of another city shows what it looks like for a city located in more than 1 county.
 * The previously Andover web page doesn't do this.
 * http://www.lkm.org/directory/cities.php?ID=70


 * This web page for Sedgwick County does NOT list Andover:
 * http://gis.sedgwick.gov/pdfmaps/county/ (County of Sedgwick official website)


 * This web page is the map of andover from census.gov:
 * http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/MapItDrawServlet?geo_id=16000US2001800&_bucket_id=50&tree_id=420&context=saff&_lang=en&_sse=on


 * Remember: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You have not provided any evidence that the city has de-annexed its Sedgwick County portion (yes, this can happen; see Talk:Kannapolis, North Carolina for a recent example), and the existence of sixty-one people who lived in Andover and in Sedgwick County makes it impossible that the city is only in Butler County.  If you look at municipal websites (and other websites of the types you mention above) nationwide, you'll see that they often omit small portions across county lines, since they're not significant for daily needs.  Nyttend (talk) 08:13, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * There is nothing to de-annex because it was a federal government mistake of including some people from the sedgwick county side of the andover school district in the census for the city, and the city had them fix it. The federal government made a mistake and there is ZERO evidence that I can find to support the OLD census mistake.  My point is that I want you to provide CURRENT evidence to support your view.  Thanks!  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •  19:33, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Consider this Geographic Change Notes for Kansas (select Kansas from the drop-down), which clearly indicates the Census Bureau thinks there was an annexation and that this was not a mistake. older ≠ wiser 20:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Followup -- does Kansas allow cities to exist in multiple counties? Purely speculation at this point, but I don't see any cities on List of cities in Kansas or List of U.S. cities in multiple counties as being in more than one county. It might be under state law that once land a different county is annexed by a city it becomes a part of the city's county -- although the Census Bureau might not recognize this. older ≠ wiser 20:06, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The body of the CENSUS.gov Geographic Change Notes for Kansas is empty. • Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •  13:00, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I didn't check the link. I've replaced it. older ≠ wiser 13:10, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with Kanasas land law. There are a bunch of cities in Kansas that are in 2 counties.  Herington, Kansas is located in 2 counties.  Bonner Springs, Kansas is located in 3 counties.  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •  13:21, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Here are the 2010 census bureau maps for Andover, and none of their 3 maps show Andover census area being in Sedgwick County. •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •  14:22, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, if you look closely at DC10BLK_P2001800_001.pdf, there is a portion along the west side of 159th St between the Burlington Northern tracks south to the turnpike that is marked as being in Andover. That would seem to correlate with the small numbers for the portion in Sedgwick Co reported in the estimate. Not sure what to make of it, but there does seem to be a discrepancy between what the Census Bureau reports and what the local official informally reported to you. older ≠ wiser 14:50, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * More specifically, it appears that census tracts 100.01 and 101.15 are attributed by the Census Bureau as being in Minneha Township, Sedgwick County and part of Andover city. older ≠ wiser 15:08, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The Andover situation might turn out to be analogous to that of Farragut, Tennessee, an incorporated municipality in Knox County, that Wikipedia lists as being in Knox and Loudon counties because Farragut apparently annexed a tiny sliver of Loudon County. Wikipedians who are intent on consistency insist on describing the situation exactly the same as if this town was equally split between two counties (which is the situation of the city where I live). This map shows the Farragut situation rather well: The western boundary of the town follows the county line (a straight line), except for a sliver-sized rectangular deviation to the west to take in the western edge of a town park. Because the park spans the county line, Wikipedia insists on discussing this as a town in two counties. Technically, that's true, but it would be nice if articles about places like Andover and Farragut prominently described the geographic realities... --Orlady (talk) 16:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * That's an excellent point Orlady. I agree that there is often undue emphasis on technicalities of census data. I'd be perfectly happy if the articles on such places only mentioned the primary county in the lead and left the details of minor technicalities to the Geography (or similar) subsection. older ≠ wiser 16:38, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) After zooming in further, I see that sliver around the county line in 100.01 and 101.15 on this census.gov PDF map. The most important thing with this PDF is that it is new information to support the claim about some of Andover being in Sedgwick County per the older census documents.


 * 2) I'm curiously where things sit at this exact moment. It is almost 2012 and the census.gov map and change list is almost 2 years old.  If you search for the word "email" in this section, an email from the City Administrator said the census problem was fixed.  We can't yet validate this claim, but it means that we need to follow up later to check to see if a change does work through the system.


 * 3) I sent an email to the Andover City Administrator (same person that I contacted last winter) about this investigation, but I haven't received a reply yet. •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •  04:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

School District
They have to put in sedgewick to allow the kids in other school area's to be part of our district otherwise they would have to go into wichita everyday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rewrew1995 (talk • contribs) 02:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The Andover school district borders does come into Sedgwick county, thus is the reason behind the above census bureau mistake. Numerous school systems in Kansas cross county borders, and causes confusion with people that aren't aware of it. For example USD 398 for Peabody, Kansas schools has district borders that cover parts of 4 counties. Sbmeirow (talk) 19:26, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The Census Bureau doesn't tabulate populations by school districts; otherwise, they'd have chaos, since in most of the country, school districts extend way past municipal boundaries. Nyttend (talk) 08:17, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

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