Talk:Andrea Smith (academic)/Archive 1

Article name
I didn't really know how to characterize Smith, so I chose "academic" to follow her name. I don't know that that was the best way to go, but there already exists an article for another Andrea Smith.--Irn 06:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

tenure controversy
Smith's case, and several others, prompted a conference about the issue -- I think it was called the lockdown conference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.147.103.46 (talk) 03:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Cherokee
Some editors have been contesting Andrea Smith’s status as a Cherokee. I cannot personally speak to whether or not she is a citizen of any federally recognized tribe. However, according to the sources, Smith is a Cherokee. If you wish to contest this, please present some sources that verify your claim regarding Smith’s status. -- Irn (talk) 17:53, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

While it's hard to prove a negative, I think I can. I am an enrolled citizen of the Cherokee Nation and I have on my hard drive email exchanges with Andrea Smith where she agrees to quit claiming Cherokee citizenship or Cherokee descent and I agree to quit writing about her fakery, as I had done in Indian Country Today.

You may also contact Richard Allen, who is authorized by the Cherokee Nation to deal with these public fakes. He has done her family tree and found no Cherokees.

Judge Steve Russell Associate Professor Emeritus Indiana University —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swrussel (talk • contribs) 00:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

It's very easy to find out if someone is enrolled in a tribe. Just contact the tribal registrar of the tribe in question. Indian Country Today in print has the column about Andrea Smith's claims being false; however, the ICT website no longer has the column online. If anyone wanted to list her as "self-identified Cherokee," that would be appropriate but not as a tribal member. -Uyvsdi (talk) 04:53, 30 September 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * Here's the citation of the published piece disproving Smith's claims to be Cherokee:
 * Russell, Steven. "When does ethnic fraud matter?" Indian Country Today. 4 April 2008.
 * -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:23, 30 September 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

So, I removed the note that her ancestry is contested from the article. It's not sourced as of yet; since this is a bio of a living person, contentious information like that can't be included without a reliable source. A reliable source would have to be published; email exchanges are original research and are not acceptable. Similarly, contacting an expert isn't good enough. You need to find a reputable source online talking about this. Until you do, it shouldn't be in the article. NoahB (talk) 19:43, 7 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Sources do not need to be online. Print-only sources are perfectly acceptable (provided the editor who sources material from them is doing so genuinely, i.e. they have access to that source themselves). --superioridad (discusión) 22:41, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The Daily Beast has now published an article discussing the controversy around her heritage. I will add that to the article.NoahB (talk) 02:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

2015 Cherokee claim discussion
I just made the external links into references. It's questionable if Tumblr or Wordpress references will stand, since they are self-published and do not constitute reliable sources. Basically the blogs are he said/she said and will probably be removed and only material from published, secondary sources will be allowed to stand. Ahalenia (talk) 16:27, 5 July 2015 (UTC)Ahalenia
 * Smith's claim is a "claim," because absolutely no proof has ever been furnished that she has any Native or Cherokee heritage. The blogs will probably be removed anyway, but Cedric Sunray, of the MOWA Choctaw, has a horse in this race, as does Craig Womack, who is a non-enrolled Creek and Cherokee descendent. Discussions about how to define Native American have sprung up all over Wikipedia, so there's no need to re-invent the wheel. There's lengthy discussion on Talk:Elizabeth Warren, and Talk:Elizabeth Warren/Archive 7, and Talk:List of Native American women of the United States/Archive 1 and definition at List of Native American women of the United States. The List of people of self-identified Cherokee ancestry was created because unsubstantiated claims of Cherokee descent are so commonplace with almost twice as many non-native people claiming Cherokee ancestry as there are enrolled Cherokees. Simply saying you are Cherokee without any proof or cited validation from any Cherokee tribe is insufficient to establish Cherokee identity and certainly not an identity as a Native American. 18:10, 5 July 2015 (UTC)Ahalenia
 * , the talk page is here for debate. I added references—published, secondary sources—and haven't taken any away, because https://againstpoliticsofdisposability.wordpress.com is still linked (BTW Klee Bennally *is* Native American, but he is not a scholar). The Wordpress will eventually be removed, because Verifiability states in WP:SELFPUBLISH, "For that reason, self-published media, such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs (as distinguished from newsblogs, above), Internet forum postings, and tweets, are largely not acceptable as sources." Ahalenia (talk) 21:25, 5 July 2015 (UTC)Ahalenia

Finally, an even-keeled article that isn't a blog: [https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/07/06/scholar-who-has-made-name-cherokee-accused-not-having-native-american-roots#.VZqkZZctEkg.mailto "Fake Cherokee?" Inside Higher Ed.] Ahalenia (talk) 16:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)Ahalenia

Colorlines has a pretty good piece on the issue, and so there's also this open letter from indigenous women scholars. -- Irn (talk) 22:07, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I think she's a wannabe, but this should be solvable once and for all with a DNA test. Or is that too technical for the social sciences?