Talk:Andrew Dice Clay

Lifetime ban
I put quotation marks on "lifetime ban" because I clearly recall seeing Dice on MTV in at least one subsequent appearance with David Spade. Spade played his trademark receptionist character who refused to allow Dice into the MTV Video Music Awards, citing the "lifetime ban." However, by appearing on the network the "lifetime ban" was clearly not taken very seriously. I suspect he has appeared in other segments but that's the only one I've ever seen. --Feitclub 22:11, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)


 * There's also nothing but a parting mention in here about the incident in question, and the page 'Notable incidents on the MTV awards' or some such also lacks much information. Someone should put some more information about that in here; considering I only heard of Andrew Dice Clay today (and am curious about the incident), I'm not the one best suited to do it. PolarisSLBM 02:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The lifetime ban seems like it was a publicity stunt more than anything else 198.6.46.11 15:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Catskills influences
The article de-emphasizes Clay's links with traditional Jewish-American comedians who came out of the Catskills circuit, such as Rodney Dangerfield and Buddy Hackett, many of whom were quite obscene in their live performances. Clay's debt to this tradition is rather clear ; rather than a transgressive comedian like Kinison or Hicks, Clay's style of comedy was just a more extreme form of conventional stand-up styles of the sort mentioned above. Prairie Dog


 * If this is important or notable information then you should be able to find numerous secondary sources that all make the claim. When you do find those sources, feel free to add the information to the article. Vivaldi (talk) 07:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

"His family is Jewish" and he's not? Was he adopted? 98.4.103.242 (talk) 14:56, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, 98.4.103.242, I think you make a valid point. I've tried to address it in this edit. Bus stop (talk) 04:43, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Nursery rhymes
There's been some back and forth editing on the exact wording of Dice's Mother Goose routines, which is somewhat futile, given that different performances and recordings have slightly different wordings. I just reverted some edits based on a quick listen of the first "Mother Goose" track from his first album, thinking that any later performances would be derivitave of that work.

Saying that, I'm not sure if the rhymes even belong in this article, as opposed to another article. And I'm not sure they belong on Wikipedia at all, given that they are copyrighted work, and it would be akin to posting lyrics to a copyrighted song. But, to about 99% of the people out there, these rhymes are the only identifiable part of his career, so maybe they should stay. I'm open to discussion on this, although I'm not sure anyone else cares that much. Jkonrath 15:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think a few should be put back in as examples, could be justified under fair use and a significant contribution to the article. Others are at the rotten.com external and wikiquote links. 65.33.156.96 04:25, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I say we should delete most of them from the article. It really disrupts the reading of the article. It is sort of like "Prose, prose prose, obscene rhymes, rhymes, rhymes, rhymes, god these rhymes just keep going on ARRGH! Prose prose prose prose..." If we take all but 2 or 3, it will better maintain the flow of the article. --THollan 02:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree


 * I missed this note and had a font problem. Help! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Editingfiend (talk • contribs) 06:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC).


 * The content of his jokes are copyrighted works and cannot be quoted in their entirety on Wikipedia. It is not fair use to tell the entire joke.  It is more than sufficient to advise people that "Mother Goose" and "Little Boy Blue" were two examples of his dirty nursery rhymes.  There is no need to repeat their full content on Wikipedia. Vivaldi (talk) 07:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Nursery rhymes/questionable article linking
In the nursery rhymes section, the word "dumper" links to the rectums article, and the word "crack" links to the vagina one. Glad to see that this place is turning into Encyclopedia Dramatica, keep up the good work.


 * I cleaned it up. Foday 07:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Peak of popularity
I was disappointed to see this article discussing his shortcomings without really mentioning how popular he was at his peak. Its mentioned only in passing that he sold out Madison Garden three times, and that comes in a sentence that calls him a hack and attributes his success to Opie and Anthony. At his peak, Clay reached heights that no comedian before or after has reached.

This article criticizes his comic style and documents his failures in great detail, but it's failure to document his successes leaves us with an incomplete and misleading entry. Anson2995 22:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * "At his peak, Clay reached heights that no comedian before or after has reached." Seriously? Clay is that you? 198.6.46.11 15:18, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not Clay, no. You'll note that this section is called "peak of popularity" not "peak of artistic craft." There's no denying that at his peak, Clay was drawing huge crowds -- much larger than typical for a standup act. He sold out Madison Square Garden, which no comic had ever done before, and he did it for three straight shows. Anson2995 16:18, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't mind the criticism as long as it is properly sourced and it is in proper proportion to its importance and notability. Negative information in biographies that is not sourced "must be removed immediately". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vivaldi (talk • contribs) 07:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Opie & Anthony
I have to agree. Despite their subsequent falling out with eachother, Dice still owes a great deal to the support of Opie & Anthony during the last decade. They certainly deserve a mention for this in the main article.--24.47.145.73 17:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Taken care of. I think I kept it pretty fair. Payneos 05:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Another movie Clay starred in
Andrew Dice Clay also starred in a movie called Brain Smasher: A Love Story. If someone wants to research it and add it to the article page...

NPOV
I cleaned up some of the commentary type POV. The comparison to Bruce, Kinison, and Hicks as social and political commentary is a POV.

Removed the word offensive from "offensive racist comments". This is POV as Clay's fans may not find it offensive but others will...POV.

After removing a couple POV entries, the article looks well balanced. Since there hasn't been any discussion about the NPOV tag and why it was added, I have removed the tag since the NPOV entries have been removed.I already forgot 16:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

POV removal
I removed this text from the commercial failure section because it adds no new information and is obviously biased: "We also are subjected to a rant concerning the difficulty of spreading padded butter at a resturant. Dice perhaps gets his raciest, however, in the opening few minutes, when he vividly describes the process of cunt farting for the audience." First of all, we were not "subjected" to anything. Second, by calling it a rant, it makes him seem like a moron. Third, who gets to decide when he was raciest? Fourth, there has to be a better way to put it than to say cunt farting. shadowbeckoner


 * All negative information that is unsupported by reliable secondary sources needs to be removed. This article was very juvenile.  Vivaldi (talk) 07:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe the term you are looking for is queef. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.145.252.66 (talk) 12:14, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Early stand-up
I was surprised to see it suggested that ADC began stand-up after Crime Story, in the late 1980s. I remember him appearing at the Comedy Store just south of Westwood (by UCLA) in the late 1970s or early 1980s, with exactly the same act, smoking the cigarette and the whole bit. I remember seeing him, myself, one night, on the bill with Yakov Smirnoff, a walk-on from Rich Hall, and the only guy to get any real laughs that night, the closer, the screamer, Sam Kinnison. Hall was grindingly boring. Smirnoff got a few giggles about how it was 'in Russia'. And ADC got barely even that. I personally didn't get his act, at the time. I wasn't laughing, either. By contrast, Kinnison's exasperated ranting about his wife, sort of Henny Youngman or Rodney Dangerfield on speed, to the point where he himself was on the floor had people almost rolling in the aisles, themselves; an appropriate cliche seeing him live.


 * If you can correct the information and provide sources for your claims then feel free to improve the article! Vivaldi (talk) 07:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing a line
"While doing a phone in to the Brother Weeze Show, to promote his new show, Dice said, "when he has a problem with someone, he takes care of business face to face." Then Opie from the Opie and Anthony Show comes on the phone to confront Dice, and Dice hangs up like a little girl."

I think we can all agree this should be removed... Not only of it's POV, but also because it's mentioned earlier, and in a non-pov way. (Gamingtrevor) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.185.131.54 (talk) 18:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC).


 * I also removed this line. Claims that "he hung up like a little girl" aren't worthy of an encyclopedia.  First of all, none of this is attributed to a verifiable source.  Secondly, even it were, it isn't a significant or notable event that one person hangs up the phone on another. Vivaldi (talk) 07:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

POV II
For the following lines:"it was often hard for the general public to differentiate between the persona and the actual person because so many people were cinched-up morons." and "This reputation he got was grossly unfair and PC pussies should ashamed of trying to tell everyone how to act. And they're supposed to be the tolerant ones. Puhlease." Not gonna change it 'cause I don't care enough to get in an edit war over it. Scottanon 04:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If you care enough to write on the discussion page then you should care enough to correct the main article. The lines you quoted demonstrate vandalism.  They don't belong in an encyclopedia.  I removed them along with tons of other claims in this article that were uncited. WP:BIO requires a higher standard. Vivaldi (talk) 07:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed links
I removed the sections with links to other pages. One of the refereneces (Mike Hunt), was just vandalism. The link to Artie Lange isn't really relevant since the content about the Dice/Lange feud was removed. The link to Opie and Anthony isn't needed since it already appears earlier in the article. And as an aside, I think this article benefits greatly by omitting all of the detailed commentary on "feuds" between Dice and various radio hosts. It's not notable and frankly a rather routine part of the radio business. Play-by-play accounts of those sorts of thing are fun for fansites, but they only serve to clutter an article like this one. Anson2995 01:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Brother Wease and other appearances
I removed the content about Dice's appearance on the Brother Wease show and his "confrontation" with Opie and Anthony. It appeared here earlier and we deleted it once already. It's really not necessary to include a whole section everytime somebody appears on a radio show. These play-by-play accounts of feuds between radio personalities are more suitable for a fan sit than an encyclopedia article. If we start to include this stuff it's going to take over the article. Anson2995 21:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well then can I at least include the MP3 in the External links section? They call me Mr. Pibb 21:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Payneos undid my edits with this comment: "Added back in both sections. Only reason given against the sections was Fancruft without calling it that, which is not offical Wiki policy." Actually, what I said above (and on two different occasions) was that these events were not notable, and thus unworthy of being included.  I also don;t think it makes sense to have entries on a couple of guest appearances (on an internet show and a non-syndicated small market radio show) take up more space than we give to describing his entire career as a stand up.  I don't want to get into an edit war, but if you really feel that those things belong here, let's please have some discussion of why. Anson2995 17:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I personally don't think that non-notable appearances on various shows should be included here. We don't need play-by-plays of shock-jock versus comedian in the encyclopedia.....UNLESS you can find numerous secondary sources that say that the event is somehow notable or important.  For example, if the New York Times and Washington Post mention the feud and explain how it is somehow important and notable, then go ahead and put it in the article and cite your sources.  Just repeating the radio show comments is not useful.  We discourage using primary sources on Wikipedia, because it leads to editors performing original research and perhaps only including those bits of a long show that they feel promote their own point of view.  I'm not a fan of Andrew Clay by any means, but I will make sure that we follow the guidelines and policies of Wikipedia regarding biographies of living people. Vivaldi (talk) 05:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The vh1 show
is it me or does that last section feel like it was written by someone at vh1? Ashburn247 (talk) 08:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Article stubbified
This is notification that I have stubbified this article for constant violations of our policy on biographies of living individuals. I request that all editors do not revert, but work to include verifiable material. Sceptre (talk) 13:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Links
The Dice Equation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.18.75 (talk) 06:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

This article is amazingly weak
I can't believe you don't have more on this guyTheshoveljockey (talk) 06:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That sounds to me like an offer to volunteer to expand and improve it. Mark Shaw (talk) 13:03, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The fact that the Discussion page is bigger than the article proves that the article itself is weak.24.197.2.22 (talk) 02:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That sounds to me like a second offer to volunteer to expand and improve it. Mark Shaw (talk) 02:13, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah I know - thing is, the Diceman has been fairly controversial in his time so we gotta make sure all the info is cited properly with reliable sources. The article has been bigger in teh past but alot was removed. If anyone has a book or article with which to source more info, it would be much appreciated. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Not only is this one of the weakest article I've ever read on Wiki, it's also the most grammatically incorrect. This article is boring, lacks real information about "Dice", and flows like the Colorado rapids.  I think this whole article should be nuked.
 * This article is truly a POS and should be nominated for the Wiki Hall of Shame. —Preceding comment added by 000.00.00.000 (talk) 05:50, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree. One thing missing from the article is that the CHARACTER of "Andrew Dice Clay" is merely a character that Mr. Silverstein PLAYS for laughs - it is a parody of people from his neighborhood where he grew up, and not his actual persona. Can't believe you missed that.

Also another glaring omission was the controversy he created with his aggressive anti-gay comedy bits.

I'm guessing that his Agent put together this sanitized and whitewashed page.

FWIW.

2602:306:CCB2:C180:B927:D1E7:6625:8566 (talk) 20:02, 28 December 2013 (UTC) The consensus seems to be that this article misrepresents the real Andrew Dice Clay, by omitting most of the controversies that defined his career.Landroo (talk) 11:35, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

His appearance in MASH
Why was his appearance in television sitcom MASH removed? This is one of his earliest acting debuts. The role was key to his early success. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.242.128 (talk) 21:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Uninformative on his actual views
This article is missing everything and anything about the #1 question most readers are going to have about the subject: Does he actually hold the politically-incorrect views his comedy routines espouse? Surely there must be a pile of pro and con reliable material on this. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 09:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

More to the point, some of his more spectacular meltdowns (notably the Arsenio Hall "I broke my ass," CNN "running a f*****g gym," and Opie + Anthony "balloon knot" tirades) hint at some sort of false front, or behind-the-scenes collapse, or both. I wonder if some sort of non-purely-OR exploration of this parallel could be relevant. Sskoog (talk) 08:04, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Too Clean
For someone whose public existence has been nearly defined by controversy, the absence of a "Controversies" section, is completely inappropriate. Landroo (talk) 21:24, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * What did you have in mind for such a section? Mark Shaw (talk) 21:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Nearly anything he's done.Landroo (talk) 03:19, 6 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Andrew Dice Clay was famous for using the word "nigger" repeatedly throughout his performances. It is used on many (if not all) of his albums, the way other comedians have used the word "fuck". Why isn't his mentioned in the article? Yes, this article has been sanitized so Andrew Dice Clay is unrecognizable... Stevenmitchell (talk) 08:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I've listened to most of his albums and can't remember one instance when he used that word. True, the subject of race comes up occasionally in his material, and I see one NYT reference to using it, but I don't think it's true that he used the word repeatedly in his performances or albums. ExampleOfHumanBeing (talk) 15:37, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Wording Change
In the opening paragraph, I changed the sentence, "He is loved by some and reviled by others for his violent, crude, misogynistic, and degrading act." to "He is loved by some and reviled by others, who feel that his act is crude, misogynistic, and degrading." I think it's less biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.48.168.214 (talk) 00:23, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

You might want to add "homophobic" as well.

See:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jordanzakarin/andrew-dice-clay-controversy-homophobia-blue-jasmine

Again, I believe the character of "Andrew Dice Clay" is just that - his comedic contemporaries reported that he put on this act, and slowly the character enveloped him.

From the above article (interview) with Mr. Silverstein himself:

"He goes back to this point over and over again: The Dice Man was a stage persona — it still is — and doesn’t have much to do with the guy who says he took off much of the late ’90s and last decade to raise two young sons."

Andrew Dice Clay, per se, does not exist. He is merely an act put on by Andrew Clay Silverstein. Perhaps the whole article should be tossed and rewritten as such - by folks other than his fan-boys.

Very little real research going on here!

2602:306:CCB2:C180:B927:D1E7:6625:8566 (talk) 20:07, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Running a gym
Didn't he also run a gym? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.62 (talk) 09:02, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Running a gym?!
Running a gym? Running a fucking gym?!

peak of his career
There isn't enough about the brief peak of his career, about 1800-1990 (or whatever). Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:06, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I came here to say that. The section of the article on his career rather bizarrely skips from 1988 to 1995, not saying anything about the intervening years when he was at the peak of his popularity. It makes for an odd read, as it suggests he went from being 'the next big thing' to 'yesterday's news' without ever being popular. Elsewhere in the article, events of this period are mentioned, such as his appearances at Madison Square Garden and on Saturday Night Live; they should be integrated into the 'Career' section. Robofish (talk) 13:29, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:44, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Trivia
I can see no relevance for the trivia section if it is relevant it should be re-tilted 'In Popular Culture' and moved above the references — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.99.108.78 (talk) 10:23, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

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