Talk:Andrew Tate/Archive 1

Requested move 18 September 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: pages moved. Andrewa (talk) 16:51, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

– Only subject with an article. Unreal7 (talk) 12:03, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Andrew Tate (kickboxer) → Andrew Tate
 * Andrew Tate → Andrew Tate (disambiguation)
 * Support. Seems obvious. There's been a lot of buzz (for better or for worse) about this fella lately too, so it seems unlikely that the other articleless subjects are somehow more notable. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:58, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Support  Enigma msg  04:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Twitter antics
An audience which never watched kickboxing has been made aware of Tate by his provocative comments on Twitter, which can be classed as conservative, to put it lightly. There is some coverage of this but not extended enough for it to be considered a key part of his personal life (WP:RECENTISM). He's not quite at Martin Shkreli's level of having significant coverage in this regard. Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 22:13, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Height
In youtube video called "Why Islamic extremism is a Muslim problem" Andrew states he is 6 foot 5 (195cm). Is there a more reliable source for his height stated in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zivkovic.ante (talk • contribs) 21:32, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Undermining Social Distancing
He is a very close friend of Alex Jones & Paul Watson, they are working together in undermining Social Distancing & spreading Bill Gates conspiracy theories. Example: ToddGrande (talk) 07:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I think both brothers are full of crap, and the other one is extremist. Cobra could be spiritual if he would want to. Yet again they do have the brain, but going to the school accomplish you. Their Tate Confidential vlog channel is quite good though, if you are already an adult. Some theories, are not even conspiracies, so it is a pity today proofs are linked to Bill Gates scenarios and so on. I think some are not arguments in their case. Otherwise Hillary is promoting the abortion worldwide and that's the evidence of killing. This word (conspiracy theory) was invented to laugh about proofs, to mock bad truths. And in an opposite case, it is just false info, lying or crap. .karellian-24 (talk) 22:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Kickboxing record
The infobox said he has 53 fights (44 wins, 9 losses). The number is either incorrect or unsourced. This Luton Today article says his 2009 fight against Randle was his 17th win out of 19 matches. This is consistent with the table, which shows 2 losses before Randle. So that would make his latest fight (against Ahmeti in 2020) his 34th win out of 42 matches. I've updated the info accordingly. Spellcast (talk) 13:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

"See also" section
Whoever is responsible for the current entries under "See also" – I salute you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A04:4540:205:B400:DECC:6229:D036:D819 (talk) 12:14, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Bias
This seems very promotional and biased and neglects to mention the extreme, and i mean extreme, misogyny he now makes his money from. Also doesn't mention his webcam studio which he claims has made him a multimillionaire by virtue of grooming his girlfriends. Also doesn't make use of any information from the source cited for "misogynistic comments." The title of the article is a quote saying women bear some responsibility for being raped. I think this page needs to be seriously revised or deleted. 2601:182:CA02:5A30:DD13:772F:7D6C:B90C (talk) 03:14, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Added Twitter 2022 Ban
The 2021 ban was of the unverified account, the 2022 was of the verified new account Soylicious (talk) 05:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Might be noteworthy to mention that he's actively evading said ban via multiple alts and retweet accounts. 107.0.12.249 (talk) 17:56, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Unless there are reliable sources reporting this, it can't be included. CUPIDICAE💕  17:59, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Request to add Networth and remove/ or change the kidnapping lines
Add: Tates networth: 6 million USD In bio description Edited: Change "Emory Andrew Tate III (born December 1, 1986) is a British-American kickboxer, commentator and businessman." To "Emory Andrew Tate III (born December 1, 1986) is a British-American kickboxer, commentator and businessman. Tates Net worth is around 30 million USD.

Source: https://biooverview.com/andrew-tate-net-worth/ - seen 04/27/22

Remove the lines "On April 11th 2022, Tate's house was raided by Romanian police in relation to an investigation concerning allegations that a woman was being held at the property against her will, human trafficking and rape. A Romanian woman and an American woman were found at the property"

Or add "The case was dropped because Tate was innocent." Sources: Tate Tate released CCTV footage that showed he was innocent of any wrong doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxXkfdMQ6fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5jZ8HVrtOI https://redpillrights.com/millionaire-kickboxing-champion-brothers-andrew-tate-tristan-tate-arrested-then-proven-innocent-after-false-accusations-made-by-rejected-woman-and-her-jealous-cuck-boyfriend/ GhostmanJohn (talk) 09:12, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. None of the sources provided are reliable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:22, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

His net worth is 30 million usd https://biooverview.com/andrew-tate-net-worth/ GhostmanJohn (talk) 11:40, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: That continues not to be a reliable source. Per the source itself, Bio Overview does not make any warranties about the completeness, reliability and accuracy of this information. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I see thank you. Then which site would be reliable for Net worth? GhostmanJohn (talk) 12:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I found this on their site:
 * "Admin’s Statement for Bio Overview
 * As per my point of view, there are many people who visit the internet to get some information but 90% of the time they get wrong information so, the first priority of our website Bio Overview is to provide 100% legit and accurate information to our users, Also, I hope my dream comes true one day, and our website will provide Original Content to provide a better user experience. So, From my Side thanks for visiting our website."
 * https://biooverview.com/about-us/ GhostmanJohn (talk) 12:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Since removed, per SFR. Site is not a reliable source. Solipsism 101 (talk) 22:25, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2022
I would like to change the page to its unvandalised stage before 12 July Here is how it should look: https://web.archive.org/web/20220630075356/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate Ivoivic (talk) 00:56, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Not Done Looks like someone already restored that version for some reason. FrederalBacon (talk) 07:30, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Edit war
I am not engaging in an edit war, I will not revert again, but this is clearly a POV push, since the users are now restoring the exact version that DOZENS of unsigned IP comments asked for. FrederalBacon (talk) 07:49, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


 * And, once again this is the edit where the IP, saying they are asking on behalf of the article subject, to remove controversial content, including calling for the page ban of the user who added it. The removal of the content is CLEARLY a POV push. FrederalBacon (talk) 07:56, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I never saw that comment and nor where my actions in response to that. Not very assuming good faith HeinzMaster (talk) 07:58, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Popoki is currently engaging in an edit war, I will not continue this behaviour. However it should be noted that this is another case of Popoki edit warring. I think something should be done about his continued behaviour in this manner. HeinzMaster (talk) 07:56, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I have good faith concerns about the reliability and completeness of sourcing used in the versions you are restoring. Of course content can belong within the page and be re-introduced, but it must be backed up by in-line citations to reliable sources. Popoki35 (talk) 08:04, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Nice job trying to get the admins to intervene. I actually didn't edit it after your warning, so It just seems like you are trying to be spiteful. Also somewhat question your "good faith", as you tried to get the page of the subjects father deleted and were the lone voice trying to delete the page for one of the pioneers of Black chess players. Anywho, like I said, I will not continue in this personal battle of yours over removal of content on this page. Have a nice day. HeinzMaster (talk) 08:06, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * That looks a lot like a personal attack to me. FrederalBacon (talk) 08:14, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Saying someone is spiteful is not a "personal attack". However, you have accused me of acting on behalf of some nameless IPs to remove controversial content on the page, an accusation that was without evidence as all my edits left the controversial content you speak off. That accusation can be seen as personal attack to some. HeinzMaster (talk) 08:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Tell me what you meant by "were the lone voice trying to delete the page for one of the pioneers of Black chess players". FrederalBacon (talk) 08:19, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Emory Tate was an important figure in the African American chess community and one of the best at his time. I was simply stating that his actions in that discussion showed some personal bias affecting his decisions. You can take a look for yourself. However, as I have stated multiple times before, I will not be partaking in Popeki's attempt to draw out an edit war, an action I have to once again point out he has a history of partaking in.Articles for deletion/Emory Tate HeinzMaster (talk) 08:22, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * A simple no vote casts aspersions on his bias, but not you restoring a version of an article with THIS as the cite that "the charges were dropped" :"These are the proofs that the Tate brothers did not kidnap the American woman, especially since the two are surrounded daily by beautiful women, they are extremely rich and they own cars worth over 10 million euros." Does that sounds like a trustworthy source to you? FrederalBacon (talk) 08:32, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * My issue with the article was Popeki removing the whole kickboxing record. I did not care here or there about the controversies involved with the subject. This is also the first time you are bringing up some specific issue, should have been more clear or just fixed the specific issue instead of reverting the whole thing. I would have had no issues if you included content that made the subject look bad or whatnot. HeinzMaster (talk) 08:37, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You claimed Popeki had a bias, in a couple of different places, why accuse him of bias (and specifically accused him of bias against this subject based on one vote on an AfD) if all you care about is the kickboxing record? You could have restored the kickboxing record ten times over in the time it's taken to argue in the talk page, and, while it's not sourced, I don't think anyone would really care enough to revert it outright. FrederalBacon (talk) 08:47, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The issue was not the inclusion of a kickboxing record. I do contend that it needs to be appropriately sourced for inclusion in a BLP. I'd suggest that WP:BRD is a good tool for these kind of disputes. I removed content because WP:RS says: "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." If the content can be reliably sourced (in other words, the editor reintroducing meets their WP:BURDEN, it can be reintroduced. If the reliability of the sources is contentious, it can be discussed here on the talk page or taken up with other editors at noticeboards. (BTW, I came across that separate deletion discussion—which I did not initiate—while editing this page and added my two cents about the reasons offered in support of notability. It was my opinion, and I didn't care much about it either way.) Popoki35 (talk) 08:52, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh I know. I requested full protection for BLP issues. It's been 3 days since the edits you made, autoconfirmed is coming. All those edit requests that were popping up, that stopped as soon as the talk page was protected, are going to be showing up as straight up edits soon. I almost left a note on your talk to that effect last night, but I figured you knew what was coming. FrederalBacon (talk) 08:57, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Really muddied the waters with that supposed plan by reporting it straight to the admins, even tho I didn't make any changes after your warning about edit warring. How now in good faith am I supposed to make any changes to the article since you can just say you disagree and revert them, accusing me of continuing the edit warring? HeinzMaster (talk) 09:00, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * At this point, all three of us are on WP:3RR restrictions. None of us can revert to dispute the content of the page right now. And I'm not even sure, this person might fall under discretionary sanctions for Post-1992 US politics. FrederalBacon (talk) 09:06, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * "Post-1992 US politics"? Care to expand? HeinzMaster (talk) 09:09, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It's an Arb Com thing. I'd read through their decisions at the end (and all of their discretionary sanctions decisions), there's a lot of them it covers...well, a good chuck of articles across the site. IDK if this subject would apply, due to the link to the former US president. FrederalBacon (talk) 09:20, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Ahh okay, Well I think all of this was a big misunderstanding. I was not aware of the previous issues going on with the article or people connected to Tate requesting stuff. I was not trying to cover up or make pretty some of the controversies involving the subject. I apologize if I offended you in any manner. HeinzMaster (talk) 09:25, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I tried to restore the kickboxing record, but you reverted it completely. I was not aware I was changing some controversies involving Tate. Popeki has tho decided to unnecessarily escelate this to the admins, so I would rather not change this article anymore. Hence why I am discussing it here with you instead of restoring the "kickboxing record ten times over". Popeki has decided that Romanian and kickboxing sources for some reason aren't valid and hence has removed most of Tate's kickboxing record. HeinzMaster (talk) 08:54, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Just noting that I have fully protected the page for 4 days until this matter is resolved. If a consensus is reached before protection is automatically removed, please ping me or leave a comment on my talk page and I'll look into removing it. Cheers, Anarchyte  ( talk ) 10:22, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Edit request
, please change lead sentence: "...regarding his brutally honest and controversial views" to "regarding his treatment of women and public comments about sexual assault and sexual harassment." The current version is unsubstantiated and contains WP:OR. The previous version summarized information in the body and is supported by an article in The Independent. At the very least, "brutally honest" has plain issues with WP:NPOV. Popoki35 (talk) 10:30, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I agree with the removal of "brutally honest" per NPOV and BIO, but I do not want to substantially change the lede while it is fully protected. I could change it to "regarding his controversial views", which seems to be supported by the Independent. Would this be sufficient? Anarchyte  ( talk ) 10:36, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, I agree that "brutally honest and" should be removed during this protection while any other changes should require a clear consensus. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 11:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Removed. I further that any other changes should be made through consensus in the section above. Anarchyte  ( talk ) 11:20, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Makes good sense to me, thanks for your quick response. Popoki35 (talk) 13:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Article Content Dispute
Considering the above conversation could be essentially considered done now that the page has been locked, we should create a new clean space to evaluate what is going on here.

Background
User:Popoki35 went through the page three days ago and removed unsourced content, and included new information about something controversial that was already on the page, including removing a questionable source regarding its resolution, and giving more information about the incident from the one source that was there. They also removed a bunch of gossip site sources about another controversial incident, and included more information from the reliable sources. Their overall differences are shown here.

The Edit War
About 7 hours after the final edit to the page, semi-protected edit requests started coming into the talk page. They started with claims of vandalism, specifically asking the editor involved to stop, and then just snowballed. There were even one such edit request that claimed to be asking on behalf of the article subject, and asking for the editor who added the information to be page banned. There was absolute puffery, another one who claimed to know how the subject felt about the edits.

I came in to respond to a SPER, and saw all of this. I wound up removing most of it outright as clearly not constructive (and most of it not even worthy of a response, I'm not responding to someone who asks on behalf of the articles subject to remove controversial content). I'm guessing User:ScottishFinnishRadish agreed with me, since they did the same a little while later. It was a flood of requests.

There was a request for a specific version to be restored. Eventually, the talk page was semi-protected due to disruption. There were probably around 20 edit requests from various registered editors and IPs to remove the changes.

Just before the talk was locked, User:GhostmanJohn reverted to the previous version. It was then reverted by Popoki. A short while later A couple of days later, it was restored again by User:HeinzMaster. I then reverted it with a good faith note, explaining what was going on in the page, in case they thought it was indeed vandalism. HeinzMaster then reverted again to their version. At that point, I reverted for the second time for BLP POV removal issues, and requested full protection. HeinzMaster then, for a third time reverted back to the original page. That was then reverted back by Popoki. There is one violation of WP:3RR, but for the most part, the edit war then ended and it was taken to talk, where the above conversation took place, which was unorganized, so let's sum it up below.

Combat Records
Both editors who reverted back to the former version of the page claimed to be taking onus with the removal of the records. We will assume good faith that that is their true intent, and address it. As discussed above, as the content was either unsourced, or sourced with self-published sources(looking through, I see a lot of blogs and personal news webpages), Popoki35 felt they were within guidelines to remove it. Per policy, the the burden to prove the source's verifiability is on the editor adding it. FrederalBacon (talk) 17:49, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Appreciate the summation. Combat records certainly seem appropriate for the page if someone is interested in finding good sources for them and including citations. Popoki35 (talk) 08:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks for the summation. I reverted in good faith because the source used seemed good to me.
 * I will be looking for more sources to support the claims since, in all transparency, I'm looking to revert most of it or what is possible. However, I'll do it the right way. GhostmanJohn (talk) 19:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Revert most of what, the page to the way it was, or the combat records? Because I don't think properly sourced combat records would be controversial, he is a fighter after all. FrederalBacon (talk) 22:13, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Net worth
His net worth should be added 68.203.230.229 (talk) 19:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:23, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Update Subheading: Controversies
The subheading "private life" should be "Controversies" as with other biographies. None of them are about his personal life. Thalia42 (talk) 21:06, 19 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I think your point is valid. Popoki35 (talk) 17:16, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Height
His known height is 6’3 as shown in kickboxing stats. 2600:100D:B157:C5B5:C1FE:35F:49CF:41E (talk) 19:42, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

American birth
Currently a citation is requested for him being American.

https://m.youtube.com/watch/ifKGDF6Ex-I

Clip of Tate saying he was born in the US. 62.66.198.178 (talk) 08:16, 21 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I also believe this would make him "American-British" instead "British-American" but maybe that's an arbitrary change. 62.66.198.178 (talk) 08:19, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 20 July 2022
I think this article needs improvement. To me, and probably many others, it is structured incorrectly, worded poorly and has a insufficient amount of data.

Firstly, I think the quote "In 2017 he made some controversial tweets regarding sexual assault and sexual harassment, including that women should "take some personal responsibility" if they put themselves "in a position to be raped"." should be positioned in a new controversy section, or, change the 'personal life' section as (previously pointed out,) it consists of mainly controversial comments.

Furthermore, I think there should be a new section added, family - or family relations, where there could be information about Andrew's father and brother, Tristan. It could also include more distant relations and his relations with them.

Overall, I think that the overall composition of the article should be changed, and more catogories added. Thiccduck60 (talk) 21:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
 * This page is no longer protected. — xaosflux  Talk 01:01, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Combat Records
At this point, no editor who wanted the combat records has made any attempt to source the material. I have removed it as unsourced BLP information. If any editor who wants the information back in, please CITE IT first. Only one or two of the fights have citations. FrederalBacon (talk) 15:41, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2022
Would like to make changes to Andrew Tates wiki, I have the sources necessary to make those changes. 0xKem (talk) 02:12, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:30, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Article Content Dispute II
In the recent days I have made changes to the article which all have been reverted. I will explain why we should keep the changes I made.

Here you can see the changes I made: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Tate&type=revision&diff=1101050105&oldid=1101039788

Point #1: On line 32 you can see that I changed the title, because the current title is simply factually incorrect. He did NOT gain popularity from his statements on sexual assault. He gained popularity from his statements on a wide array of issues INCLUDING sexual assault. The cited article doesn't support the current title, it says that he gained popularity after being on the show Big Brother, not from his tweets on sexual assault. As such, this means that the current title has failed verification and should be changed to my version or removed. The title simply isn't suitable for a BLP and isn't NPOV, as it tries to paint the person as a rapist.

Point #2: On line 46 I expanded on the domestic violence controversy, adding that the women has also said that the actions were consensual. For some reason this also was removed, even though I added a completely reliable source, which was from the UK tabloid The Daily Mirror. Here is the cited article: http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/andrew-tates-ex-sets-record-8213969

Point #3: As you can see I removed the section which claims that Andrew Tate moved to Romania, because "it's easier to rape women there". Again this is simply factually incorrect. Firstly you can't even see the video on the cited article. Secondly, that's not even what he said in the video. Here is the video in question. As you can see, he did not say that it's easier to get away with rape there, he said that it's easier for women to falsely accuse you of rape in western countries. BIG difference. As such, the statement should be removed or changed. Mst5506 (talk) 13:46, 29 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Re point 1: There is also a big change in the tone from your change, where instead of stating he gained "notoriety", you change it to "popularity".Re point 2: Do you have a better source than the Daily Mirror, one whose reliability is not questioned? There is not a consensus on the DM per WP:Perennial sources, although it notes "There is no consensus on whether its reliability is comparable to that of British tabloids such as the Daily Mail and The Sun." —C.Fred (talk) 15:32, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say he's notorious, but if you want you can keep the word "notoriety".
 * I think that's a bit pedantic. The article contains the video in which the girl announces that they were "playing a game", so the source doesn't matter, you can see the girl's face in the video. I would argue that The Tab (reference 7) is much less reliable than The Daily Mirror, as the article about Andrew Tate is heavily biased (WP:BIASEDSOURCES). Cosmopolitan (reference 6) also has no consensus on it's reliability. The Daily Beast (reference 8) also has a questioned reliability, especially for biased opinions and articles on living persons. (from WP:Perennial sources) "There is no consensus on the reliability of The Daily Beast. Most editors consider The Daily Beast a biased or opinionated source. Some editors advise particular caution when using this source for controversial statements of fact related to living persons." Mst5506 (talk) 18:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I think a major issue here is the attempt to do original research by Wikipedia editors. The standard for inclusion on Wikipedia is verifiability. We don't get into the weeds of throwing out sources because of how you personally interpret a primary source as you do above. Popoki35 (talk) 05:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Popoki35 This is not a matter of interpretation. I think I have made everything very clear. I will now change the article to my version. Thank you. Mst5506 (talk) 14:12, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Missing source
There is no source for the following quote in the article: "Tate moved to Romania in 2017 after the British police charged him with 11 cases regarding sexual assault." Please add or remove passage 62.240.134.41 (talk) 22:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Add citation needed tag Mst5506 (talk) 14:26, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * In a biography of a living person, it is more appropriate to remove something like that if it is not supported with a citation. —C.Fred (talk) 16:16, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, remove it then. Mst5506 (talk) 17:32, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Worldview
He described himself as an orthodox atheist. 83.58.228.216 (talk) 21:19, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Create multiple new sun-sections
The wiki page is very disorganised as too many editors are adding edits, which reads very biased depending largely on whether a positive or negative view is held against the individual.

The entire page needs to be characterised with new subcategories to organise all the uncategorised information (controversies and quotes shouldn’t be in the opening paragraph as this is reserved for the persons identity and notable achievements).

The opening paragraph should only state who he is and the reason he has a Wikipedia page in a concise paragraph followed by controversies inside a subcategory (there appears to be a lot of controversial statements made by him throughout the years, aimed at both men and women)

Once the page is cleaned up I propose it be locked or partially locked to minimise vandalism, otherwise to simply delete the entire Wikipedia page altogether as he is an extremely controversial individual whose page will be targeted with vandalism. Volunteers editing time can definitely be put to much better use on the platform. EnWikieditor (talk) 01:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)


 * A page being targeted for vandalism is not a reason to delete it. —C.Fred (talk) 02:09, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Of course it wouldn’t be fair for an article to be deleted due to vandalism, it’s why all extremely controversial Wikipedia pages like this one should be written with a neutral tone and be locked but if that’s not possible then I think it’s better for it to be deleted than to be misinforming or have citable passages removed due to biases or discontent towards the individual EnWikieditor (talk) 04:25, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hatred and use of inappropriate words
Putting of words like sexual assault, notoriety and sexual harrasment in his description are biased and are of pure hate of editor towards him and also his kickboxing mma records are deleted They want to portrait him bad so I request Wikipedia to bring the original stuff in the page which was present few years ago 117.99.223.155 (talk) 09:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * He is banned, and he got plenty of coverage for the ban. --Gilgul Kaful (talk) 09:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 August 2022
Born: Washington DC 2601:240:CC07:A350:50F9:B5F3:9D5E:91AE (talk) 12:38, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —C.Fred (talk) 12:39, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2022
Please add Emory Tate as a parent in the infobox since he is Andrew Tate's dad. IntoTheNightSky (talk) 02:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Where is the source for that? --Gilgul Kaful (talk) 08:13, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * See Maurice Ashley's tweet here, Andrew's the guy in the picture. Also this. There strangely doesn't seem to be many source that notice his father was a legendary chess grandmaster. 2001:8F8:172B:3F57:C434:84A:986:4331 (talk) 10:52, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The tweet is a self-published source, so can therefore not be used as a reference about someone else's life on Wikipedia (see: WP:BLPSPS). The second source (HITC) doesn't seem to have an editorial policy, and the grammatical errors and typos in the article (including spelling his name wrong) seem to indicate a lack of oversight. I'd err on the side of caution here unless a more reliable source can be found. The only other ones I've been able to find are tabloids like the Sun. ArcticSeeress (talk) 14:38, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:47, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Multiple sources mention Emory as Andrew's dad:
 * Who was Andrew Tate's dad? | The Sun
 * 'Emory Tate was Absolutely a Trailblazer for African-American Chess': Andrew Tate's Father Once Received Ultimate Praise from Grandmaster Maurice Ashley - EssentiallySports
 * Meet Andrew Tate's Parents, Emory and Mary Tate: The British-American Kickboxer's Residence » Trending Useful Stuff! (swordian.com)
 * Who is Andrew Tate's Father? - Followchain
 * Not to mention that Andrew Tate's official website which is already used as a source in this article mentions that Emory is his father. IntoTheNightSky (talk) 22:42, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I've looked through the sources here and found that only one of them is reliable to the extent that it can be used in biographies of living people (EssentiallySports). I've gone ahead and added it to the lead. ArcticSeeress (talk) 05:41, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Hustler university and recent vitality
We should mention the proliferation of clips channels that made him go viral and their link to hustler university, due to his students making the videos Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 06:35, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅. Hemiauchenia (talk) 01:54, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 August 2022
Hi Administrators I would like to have access to the page modification, as I'm concerned about the authenticity of what is currently written in the article of Mr.Tate, of course, without any delays, I'm in a position where I can confirm some of the information given, and correct others. Please accept my serious participation. Elgato santorini (talk) 23:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This article is protected due to extensive vandalism. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source for any modifications to be considered.  Thank you, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 23:42, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Reference regarding full name
Why is this website used as a reference? It's a primary source. Sure, we can use primary references for things like name and date of birth on BLPs, but it's also used as a reference that he "took the ISKA World Full-Contact Light Cruiserweight Championship via split decision." FrederalBacon (talk) 22:14, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The latter should be removed per WP:ABOUTSELF #1. Throast (talk &#124; contribs) 15:07, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The full name is referenced though, and should remain as Emory Andrew Tate III, also for ABOUTSELF number 1 and 4. It makes sense to me that he would be named after his grandfather and father, and have no reason to doubt his full name being true on his website. FrederalBacon (talk) 00:43, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2022
Change Birthplace to Washington DC

His agent's and actual birth records show he was actually born in Washington DC. His father Tate Jr was born in Chicago. https://mn2s.com/booking-agency/talent-roster/emory-andrew-tate-iii/ 2607:F2C0:EA6C:DEC:8C8:7947:C96B:479C (talk) 17:48, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I am certain there is a reliable source out there that lists his birthplace, however, his talent agent is not a reliable source. FrederalBacon (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2022 (2)
CHANGE BIRTHPLACE TO WASHINGTON DC His agent's and birth records show he was actually born in WASHINGTON DC. His father Tate Jr was born in Chicago.

https://mn2s.com/booking-agency/talent-roster/emory-andrew-tate-iii/

This is my first attempt at suggesting an edit, don't know how that other Church link was attached. This is second attempt at primary message. 2607:F2C0:EA6C:DEC:8C8:7947:C96B:479C (talk) 18:03, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I am certain there is a reliable source out there that lists his birthplace, however, his talent agent is not a reliable source. FrederalBacon (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Birthplace
Change Birthplace to Washington DC His agent's and actual birth records show he was actually born in Washington DC. His father Tate Jr was born in Chicago. https://mn2s.com/booking-agency/talent-roster/emory-andrew-tate-iii/ 2607:F2C0:EA6C:DEC:8C8:7947:C96B:479C (talk) 18:04, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi IP, welcome to Wikipedia! I left a welcome page on your talk, I'd recommend reading through a bit to understand what reliable sourcing is, a talent agent isn't a reliable source, their job is to sell their client. I am 100% convinced reliable sourcing can be found (I've looked and can't find any myself), but we can't include it based off the talent agent's profile of his client.FrederalBacon (talk) 21:08, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 August 2022
Change profile picture to https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYIXsKJWQAAHBs5.jpg 2600:8800:2415:4200:1EA:7637:BDDE:F80A (talk) 00:17, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: We cannot take copyrighted images from Twitter. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:22, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, worth pointing out, that is not the subject, that's Murr from Impractical Jokers. FrederalBacon (talk) 05:25, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 August 2022
Change profile picture to https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYIXsKJWQAAHBs5.jpg 70.163.127.89 (talk) 20:50, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌: See request above. Throast (talk &#124; contribs) 20:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Extra
I think it's important to mention "Items were retained by the police for the process of investigation." .karellian-24 (talk) 09:08, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Without further context, the sentence seems disjointed and ambiguous. If we were to include info about "items", we would first have to establish a) what they are and b) how they are important to the overall investigation. Throast (talk &#124; contribs) 10:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Computers. .karellian-24 (talk) 15:33, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems to be standard procedure for an investigation that involves a property raid. Doesn't strike me as particularly noteworthy. Throast (talk &#124; contribs) 14:56, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Bringing up father in a sentence about his allegations
Emory Tate hasn't been accused of being involved AFAIK. So I don't know why his chess player dad was brought up in the same sentence as human trafficking and rape allegations. 5.151.172.162 (talk) 10:43, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It's just a stylistic thing to decrease the number of short consecutive sentences, but I can see how it could be misunderstood to imply a connection. Personally, I don't think his father needs to mentioned in the lead at all. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 11:17, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Its syntactically correct but reads like random permutation of human text. Sentence begins with familial relationship to a famous chess player and end with human trafficking and rape charges.
 * Agree that it doesn't belong in the lead. 5.151.172.162 (talk) 13:49, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I support removing the father from the lede. The lede is honestly too short though, I would support fleshing it out and moving the father part to the beginning, toward the beginning of his life part in the lede. FrederalBacon (talk) 16:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

social media ban
as of 2pm cst, news feeds are blowing up regarding his fb and ig bans..

possible addition for *controversies* ??

just a thought. Snarevox (talk) 19:26, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * It was already added to Online Career, which thus far makes sense to me for it's location. FrederalBacon (talk) 19:29, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Ideology
Multiple sources, including a currently-cited The Daily Beast article, describe Tate as far-right. I believe the first sentence should describe Tate as such and cite these sources.

CJ-Moki (talk) 03:53, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Sources seem to hesitate explicitly calling him "far-right". Instead, they note that he's "known in far-right circles" and has "surrounded himself with far-right individuals", and so on. In this case, I think we should wait until the claim is a bit more established across a variety of sources. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 20:01, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 August 2022
Add that Andrew Tate has been banned from Meta platforms, including Facebook and Instagram, in addition to Twitter.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62602913 Akiva476 (talk) 20:17, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * ❌: It's already in the article under Online Career. FrederalBacon (talk) 20:19, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Lede Rewrite
Emory Andrew Tate III (born December 14, 1986) is an American-British social media influencer and former professional kickboxer. The son of chess grandmaster Emory Tate, he was born in the United States, and raised in the United Kingdom. After his kickboxing career, which included two ISKA world championships, Tate made a move to influencer marketing. Tate has been subject to controversy due to misogynistic statements on topics such as sexual assault that resulted in a Twitter ban, as well as a later ban from Meta platforms Facebook and Instagram. Tate was also at the center of a legal investigation involving human trafficking and rape allegations; He denies any wrongdoing.

Please note, I'm not the best with prose, nor with citations, so it will need to be changed for both (I actually just left the old citations where they were for the purpose of the edit). I fleshed out a bit more of the early life and kickboxing career for balance against the controversy, as well as added information about the Meta ban. Please feel free to do whatever you want with this, not use it, change it, whatever, just an idea I'm throwing out to make the lede a little bit longer. FrederalBacon (talk) 20:23, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. I suggest unlinking United States and United Kingdom per MOS:OVERLINK. Also, we do not have to add inline citations to the lead if claims are already supported by the article body unless they are "challenged or likely to be challenged", MOS:LEADCITE. His nationality and the bit about the investigation were challenged previously, which is why citations were added for those ones. Any reason why you changed the investigation part to past tense? As far as I know, the investigation remains open. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 20:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I actually didn't even think of it as a tense change, I actually split tenses in that sentence, lol. I left "denies" as present tense, but you're right "Tate has also been" keeps it all in the proper tense. And overlink agreed, I just didn't know where most people kept the cutoff as over and necessary linkage. I think the only things that need to be cited in the lede outright would be anything controversial and his birthplace, since it had been previously challenged. I'll work on making those changes, including the sourcing, later tonight, and repost it. FrederalBacon (talk) 21:46, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm also actively looking for any sourcing regarding his early life. I'm looking keenly for anything to do with the Meta ban, hopefully something will have some detailed background we can use. FrederalBacon (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Andrew Tate on 'Anything Goes With James English' in 2021.jpg

Personal Life: Religion
Andrew Tate identifies with the Romanian Orthodox Church faith and states that he gives over £16,000 a month to the Romanian Orthodox Church. Solidarityandfreedom (talk) 14:28, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Not added. First off, the source says Tate - who has previously defined himself as an Orthodox Christian and claimed to give more than £16,000 a month to the Romanian Orthodox Church, which is just a source saying he is stating he does, not a source of fact, and it is also a website that I would need to look into a little bit, I'm not sure if that is a reliable source. FrederalBacon (talk) 14:45, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * well then you state that "Tate claims", which is what the reference says. 142.163.195.81 (talk) 22:24, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * There is no personal life section currently, and I doubt that there's enough info out there to add one. His faith is trivial at this point. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 23:12, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Two things 1. While I would agree we could put it as "Tate claims", I don't know if that is a reliable source, and am inclined to believe it is not. 2. If it IS a reliable source, I have questions about the neutrality of that article. I would welcome wider comment on it, if someone wanted, I'm not the only person who can have input, I just declined the edit request. FrederalBacon (talk) 23:20, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:23, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Andrew Tate on 'Anything Goes With James English' in 2021.jpg

Thetab
Is this a trustworthy source? I've never heard of this site in my life. 216.164.249.213 (talk) 20:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * A January 2021 RSN discussion roughly agreed that it is not a good source, but some editors argued that it may occasionally be usable. Essentially there's no consensus. –– FormalDude   talk   20:17, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Remove or switch out some words
Switch out the word “sexual harassment” or “rape” in the description and say instead “his views on women and his idea of becoming rich” 84.38.149.207 (talk) 20:49, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * ❌: It is not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Throast  {  { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 21:25, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Social Media bans
So, given that social media bans are becoming much more prevalent, and he's getting a ton of coverage for such, we should figure out where to put it. Should the bans go into controversy? Should they stay in online career? I worry about grouping too much into controversy, it seems like everything outside of the subject's kickboxing career is controversial, so I'm preferential to keeping them in online career, since they more relate to that, especially as they are in direct response to the controversy regarding the subject's current online career, but then again, it's the controversy about his online career. Anyone got an opinion? FrederalBacon (talk) 01:52, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The "criticism and controversies" section itself is currently under dispute, with a maintenance tag recommending its content be spread out throughout the article. Getting banned from nearly every major social media platform is not typical, so it definitely warrants a mention; I'd say to put it in controversies for now, but be aware that the section may vanish. We could also try renaming the section to "online career" or "media presence". Andrew Tate is a very controversial figure, so it tracks that his online career is mostly a list of controversies, but I'll admit there are some gaps (what was he doing between 2017 and 2021, say?) that make it seem like perhaps the article is stacked against him. (Disclaimer, I'm not really in the Tate-o-sphere, I'm not super well educated on all things Andrew Tate; just an editor's opinion.) Askarion   ✉  13:01, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of a "media presence" section, so I went ahead and boldly added one. Info that felt a bit out of place in the online career section seems to fit in quite nicely there. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 17:32, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I like it, flows a lot better, well done. FrederalBacon (talk) 00:28, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

MMA record section
He's apparently only had one fight each as amateur and professional; his only professional fight was against a non-notable opponent. The question is: is the section really necessary? I feel like the MMA record start templates are only preferable if the fight record is so extensive that it would be more difficult to grasp in prose. Tate's record is summed up rather quickly. I think the Andrew Tate subsection is sufficient. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 23:42, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * It is two fights, in separate tables. I think it would be fine for it to go. The section sums it up. FrederalBacon (talk) 01:01, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 August 2022
ADD: Regarding police investigation, Leaked CCTV footage revealed that the American woman was not in any danger. The case was later dismissed. https://abtc.ng/andrew-tate-arrested-why-did-tate-get-arrested/ Andrewleenders16 (talk) 23:23, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌: Their articles are awkwardly written, author links are broken, their copyright footer still says "2021", and their page on "Editorial Policy and Standards" says that they "may consider donations to support coverage of particular topics", which means they publish sponsored content. These are all indicators that the publication is unreliable. Also, there are no criminal charges against him, so there's no "case" to be dismissed. Had the investigation been closed, we'd surely hear Tate talking about it. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 00:52, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Context for the Trafficking and move to Romania
As for the girl apparently she lied to her bf about her being kept there against her will when he saw her there on IG there’s CCTV of her walking out grabbing a pizza and walking back in and her leaving by Uber. As for the move it was cheaper more corruption and lack of strict speeding laws and lack of random violence like in London lastly he kicked a girl out and threw her stuff outta the window which she called the police with a false accusations and they investigated found not 1 piece of evidence and tried pinning other petty charges which he decided to leave as Romania wouldn’t take such actions on false accusations and the investigation has been over for a while they were released after 1 hour of talking and CCTV security Cameras checking. 47.157.236.115 (talk) 08:18, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * We need a reliable source for all of this information. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 09:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Article Length
Is there a reason this article is so short? As one of the most famous people in the world now, I think Tate warrants a proper article. I suggest expanding all of it greatly, especially the sections about his social media presence and businesses. 216.164.249.213 (talk) 14:50, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Article length is relative to the quantity and depth of coverage of the subject in reliable sources. Mainstream media has only started to cover him a few weeks ago, and I'm sure more articles will be written about him. I don't think the article is unduly short at this point in time, but if you have any specific additions you'd like to see included, you can always request them here. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 15:28, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2022
Content is misleading. Andrew Tate is Bi-racial and raised in England by his white Brittish mother. He is cultully not African America as he was not raised in the USA.

He is half black and half white! 2601:240:D980:8D80:D53D:1C97:7EB4:1ADA (talk) 16:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Nowhere in the article does it state that he is African-American. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 16:18, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Ethnicity
Since it has been brought up, I don't think we go into his ethnicity background because I believe only the father's racial background is reliably sourced, but the claims of the mother being Caucasian are not yet. Anyone have a source for that? FrederalBacon (talk) 16:24, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * No good sources as far as I can see. I don't think it's very important either. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 16:34, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, typically the subject's ethnic background would be included in a BLP, should a reliable source be found. Obviously, his father is notable enough to have their own article, so that's well known, but without information about the mother, we can't do anything. FrederalBacon (talk) 16:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Source
Sources were from Tate and footage of the women walking out of the house on CCTV was posted on the whole channel but was banned 1-2 days ago I’m gonna make a educated guess source can’t be from videos or them but there side could be added. As for the big brother situation Daily Mail and The Sun both posted articles and showed photos of the women in question who was “beaten” posing with the belt and two videos later came out one on reddit of her addressing that it was a game and they are friends another different video of her was dropped by Tate of her on the bed on her stomach asking to be “hit like a man” to which he replies “Most of England thinks I beat women because of you” so it should be added that she came out to debunk the claims and video lastly in other videos of why Tate left England he mentions the situation that he kicked a women out for vomiting on the bed and refusal to clean it up so was kicked out and stuff thrown out to which she had a false accusations made no charges or evidence found after the raid or search warrant so he left. 47.157.236.115 (talk) 20:57, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Can you provide links to sources for any of this? FrederalBacon (talk) 21:04, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * These are simply allegations, so we can't add it to the article. ZetaFive (talk) 23:17, 23 August 2022 (UTC)