Talk:Ang mo

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After reading this definition on Ang Mo, I would like to say it is all wrong. Ang Mo is a proper term addressed in Hokkien historically and will remain same. In chinese it is call 洋人(yang ren) meaning western foreigners. The kou and kui (devil) are additional negative words added by displeased people in the later years but it is a street invented words and never to be tied with the original words.

Thus Ang Mo is a perfectly normal word to address white westerners in dialect and so is yang ren.

Spheredomesg (talk) 08:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

That is a POV push and blatantly false. The correct FULL term was Ang Moh Gui - the negative part was inherent to the term from the beginning. It is only recently that it has been dropped by the pejorative and negative aspects remain. Whilst it may be 'perfectly normal' to your POV, much as 'nigga' and 'boy' were in the american mid-west and south until the 1960's, and 'chink', 'nip' and 'gook' were in the USA and Australia until the 1970's, it still doesn't make it anything other than a negative racial label with pejorative connotations. 124.179.82.193 (talk) 12:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I extremely surprised with the general stance taken by this article and think it needs to be reviewed. These days, the term "Ang moh" usually isn't used in a negative way AT ALL. It may have been derogatory in the past, but this generally isn't the case now. Now it's just a local word for "white" or "caucasian." This issue probably only arises when some people use it with a negative tone and/or context, but by and large it is NOT meant with offense intended. One can easily sound negative or racist simply by saying the words "Chinese," "Indian," or "Malay" in a negative tone/context as well. The term "Ang moh" itself is not inherently racist. I'm born in the 1980s. I think most Singaporeans from my generation will agree with me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.203.223.68 (talk) 07:27, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

with respect, it doesn't matter what singaporeans think, it matters what the people it is applied to think. It's a racist term, even though it is used in a non-racist manner by many singaporeans, the same as 'jap' and 'nip' and 'chink' when used by non-east asians or 'nigger' or 'nigga' by non-blacks. 121.79.1.46 (talk) 05:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks User talk:121.79.1.46 I can't see how User talk:150.203.223.68 could have missed this. It's the people to whom it's applied who have say over whether it's derogatory or not... and in addition, even if some Westerners don't care about it, others might, so if User talk:150.203.223.68 and his/her Singaporean friends want to make friends with Westerners, they'd better either make a judgement call as to whether the Westerner they're dealing with is spineless and can be called whatever other people want, or avoid these sorts of terms altogether (including "foreigner/外国人/老外/洋人", all of which grant Westerners permanent out-group status).

I lived in Sibu (aka Little Foochow), Borneo in the early 80s as a half caste chinese. I was called Ah Moh Lang. When I asked what it meant I was invariably told "red haired monkey". The irony at the time by the way was supreme. The first 13 years of my life in Australia I was ching chong chinaman. Get to Sibu and I am a red haired monkey. It' so cool being mixed race sometimes.... Other people who I have asked in more recent times say ah moh lang means red haired man. Now I now that "lang" does mean man/person so he more recent translation makes sense, however the monkey translation was universal in the 80s. And it was definitely analogous to "nigger" or "kike", rather than "white person". I suspect therefore that the sense of the word, at least in some places has changed over time. I agree it does not really matter what the people saying the word think in a case like this. It matters what the target thinks.

Hwong ya?
I have worked from people who I believe were from this part of China in a number of cities, and they always use the term 'Hwong ya', but I cannot find any discussion of this term on any of the linked articles. The only explanation I was ever given is that it was the word in their dialect for 'Waiguoren'. Is it very rude? 70.105.36.100 13:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In the time I lived in Singapore, hardly any of the foreigners I knew took th eterm Ang Moh as derogatory or racist. It is just a word for foreigner like 'kano' in the Philippines some of my dearest singaporean friends used it in my presence, without any  conotation. The fact that in yr examples it is used in films and in expressions like 'stupid ang moh' does not make it a bad word. Just as 'Canadian' is not a slur just because you can also say 'stupid canadian'. One can say "Li-Ann has an Ang-moh boyfriend". That is just to describe she has a Caucasion boyfriend and is no more derogatory than his friends saying 'he has an Asian girlfriend' --88.159.151.198 07:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the analogy between 'Ang-moh' and 'Asian' is accurate. It would be more correct to say that "Li-Ann has an Ang-moh boyfriend" is no more, and no less, derogatory than "Li-Ann has a Chink boyfriend" or "Li-Ann has a Nigger boyfriend". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.116.98.10 (talk) 14:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree, I lived in Singapore for 3 years studying (I'm Indian btw) and all the caucasian students I knew found the term, at best, mildly amusing, but most found it annoying or demeaning, a couple were REALLY upset when called it by strangers or friends. But what they all had in common was an understanding of it's origins and they all saw it as an inherently racist term, even if the speakers were not using it in that context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.92.97.111 (talk) 05:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe people would try and portray this term as non-racist! i spend i year in Singapore on exchange, and invariably the term was used either as a neutral term or, more commonly, as an insult. The local media play this down of course, but it's as bad a term as any other racial slur. 130.56.32.2 (talk) 05:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I just came from Singapore visited a friend who lives there for couple of years, and she has local friends. Ang Mo is not derogatory anymore. I had fun calling us Ang Mos - we are white girls - and refer to other white people Ang Mo as a joke. Its kind of interesting experience of a white living in US having a special racial nick name applied to me for a change. Racial slur no longer I dont think, or not for too long, hopefully people are warmer to each other these days and less uptight about color. Gonna make me a t-shirt of that whatyou think! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.211.21.40 (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Nah sorry, your "friend" is wrong, Ang Moh is used a racial insult, as a derogatory term, and yes, even a term of affection, but it is a racial label with mainly negative tones. It still is derogatory, no doubt about it. 152.91.9.124 (talk) 22:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

agree with above comment, its negative and nasty, no doubt about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.92.97.114 (talk) 08:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Should I Be Offended?
Ever since my first visit to the family of my wife-to-be in Malaysia, some of her family members have referred to me as "ang mo" or "ang mo lang". I didn't know what it meant, but they were friendly, so I figured it was something of a local epithet for "foreigner". Another family member I met later asked me if I was offended and I said that I had no reason to feel that way. They explained to me that it meant "red-haired monkey". It still didn't bother me, since I knew they were nice people and they were just having a bit of fun at my expense.

After I read this article about "ang mo" and this discussion, I wonder if I should caution these family members not to call me that, since I don't want them to appear racist to others. At the same time, if some stranger in Malaysia calls me that, should I react cautiously? Is it really as bad as calling a black person "nigger"? --Lance E Sloan (talk) 16:11, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I am a human rights lawyer who has both lived in Singapore and graduated from the National University of Singapore with an LL.M. in International and Comparative Law.

I believe, that among other things, it may indicate that they believe (falsely, no doubt) that you are too "stupid" to know what they are talking about. I feel, if a stranger smiles at you, and uses the word, they are assuming that you do not know what it means. Imagine you are smiling at a non-English speaking member of a disfavored population, and utilize an English racial pejorative while behaving otherwise normally. Surly you would not intend this as a compliment.

As for the notion that it is synonym for foreigner, rest assured that Singapore’s four official languages offer sufficient alternatives to “red-haired devil.” Waiguoren “outside country person” comes to mind;  Laowai expresses the same thing more casually. A very positive expression is waiguo pengyou—“foreign friends”. In Malaysian mat salih means “Caucasian.” Some people believe that orang putih may also be derogatory, but at least its literal translation is “white people.” Orang asing is also reasonably uncontroversial as it actually means “foreigner” which they use to express the connotation “person who is not from Malaysia.”  Tamil is more difficult; I am unaware of a precise translation, though the Hindi firangi would likely be comprehended. "Paradesi” is an offensive way of saying the same thing. Singapore’s fourth official language is the one used by government, courts, and is the only one universally understood by anyone born after decolonization, even including many of the Bangladeshi laborers fighting to live in the societal margins of the Lion City. It is called English.

As for people under thirty, of a reasonably materially comfortable economic status, they do not likely harbor hatred for foreigners, and are simply using one of the most crude alternatives available to them. Think of the fad in the 90s of American teens referring to things as “gay” even though they harbored not an emoticon of ill-will toward homosexual persons. Nevertheless, occasionally careless use of the word was rewarded with a punch in the arm.

I would consider telling your soon-to-be relatives that you know what the word literally means, that you’ve been patient, but that they need to knock it off and speak to you utilizing a diction that reflects respect and dignity in our diverse globalizing world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.166.223.112 (talk) 07:37, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

If they are saying it to your face with the assumption/expectation that you do not know what it means and smiling, then I would take it as offensive. My temptation would be to simply smile back, and say "hello ching chong slopey head" and smile again. ( BTW my father is Malaysian Chinese). The problem of course is you may upset your wife. Therefore I think the best course of action is probably to speak to your wife as she probably knows her family better than anyone, and can therefore best assess their intent and perhaps advise you as to a response, or explain you feeling to her family. 118.210.150.202 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC).

Personally, I think you really need to take a look at the context. The problem is that the term can be used both ways by us Singaporeans (and I assume Malaysians too). Despite its roots I do believe most of my generation view it as a term that can be used as an amusing label to tease our Caucasian friends, or to mouth off someone we do not like. So the context is really important. I don't think the above advice should be taken; you'll look small-minded, and then they'll really end up using the term behind your back in a derogatory manner. They did explain it to you, and you took no offense. Backtracking is just going to make you look bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.7.164.214 (talk) 19:33, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:48, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Ang Mo → — The term is not a proper noun, so mo should not be capitalized. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 11:05, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Change of EngVar
It seems user Hendrick99 is on a campaign to change articles from American English to British English whenever possible. This article was started in American English, and it is now being changed. Please debate changing the style here before universally changing it. Cheers

taiwan and Malaysia
shouldnt taiwan and malaysia be flipped? ang mo is also used in malaysia in addition to singapore but taiwan has their own words for referring to white people Lilraveoli (talk) 17:07, 10 December 2021 (UTC)