Talk:Anglo-Iraqi War/Archive 1

P40s
The following is from an article in the 2 June 1941 Time Magazine: "By week's end, with the help of Curtiss P-40 Tomahawks (fighters) and Martin 1675 (bombers), the British had the situation well enough in hand so that pro-Axis Premier Rashid Ali El-Gailani and his Defense Minister were reported to have requested visas to flee to Turkey. Incidentally, in the first dogfight between a Curtiss P-40 and a Messerschmitt, the German was shot down." Fortunately and unfortunatel Time Magazine is Time Magazine. Any indication elsewhere of these aircraft?
 * I had seen that entry the other week when looking through the Time article you added however i have nothing to support it. The RAF's 4 FTS History website states the force at Habbaniya had: "A Squadron was allocated 10 Audaxes; ‘B’ 1 Blenheim, 26 Oxfords, 8 Gordons and 4 Gladiators and ‘C’ and ‘D’ Squadrons were equipped with 10 Audaxes each. All serviceable aircraft were bombed up and equipped with machine guns; the Gordons and Audaxes with 2 x 250 lb bombs and the Oxfords with 8 x 20 lb bombs. Qualified pilots, including instructors, numbered only 35 so it was decided to promote the more promising pupils to swell the ranks, and to ask for volunteers amongst the rest to act as observers and gunners." The info provided by Playfair and Jackson all relates to bomber reinforcements, Hurricanes and Gladiators.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 13:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. I sometimes find that Time Magazine provides useful "extras" (yes, Haile Selassie was MAN OF THE YEAR) ... but unfortunately I suspect more than one of the Time correspondents repeated "water cooler talk."  I suspect a tangle between a P40 and a Messerschmitt would have been a "big story" at the time.  Again, thanks.  Mkpumphrey (talk) 13:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The Curtiss P-40 article says that they were used in Syria in July 1941 but doesn't mention Iraq. They were mostly used in North Africa, replacing Hurricanes. Dabbler (talk) 14:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Fraser
It seems to me that Lyman is a bit brutal on the subject of Fraser's replacement. I don't have Lyman (I find the Osprey books a bit cavalier and get the feeling they juice things up to make a better read). I can't find much elsewhere: Playfair says nothing on the subject and Mackenzie (whose history was sponsored by the Indian Army and therefore might be circumspect) says "(On 16 May Slim) succeeded Major-General Fraser who after carrying out a difficult and thankless job at Basra had gone sick." Does anyone have any other sources to contribute? Stephen Kirragetalk - contribs 17:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ashley Jackson's book states that the man was replaced because he was sent off to be the military attache in Tehran.(Jackson, p. 148)
 * This website, the generals of ww2 databse, implies that he retired before being recalled to be the above mentioned military attache
 * The King's College London website also supports this view.
 * Cant find mention of him on this, uncompleted as far as i am aware, database.
 * No additional information on ordersofbattle.com--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 19:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. There's no doubt he was military attache in Teheran but it seems unlikely that he left 10th Ind Div for this job. It's more likely that there was a gap and that after the campaign in Persia he was recalled for this posting because of his previous experience in Persia in the 30s. Otherwise it seems that the exact circumstances of Fraser's replacement are unclear. Mackenzie's book was written at the request of the War Department Historical Section, Delhi and he was given full access to all available records (and personal interviews). However, the fact that he had the support of the military means he may also have been circumspect about less glorious incidents - for instance I noticed that in his account of Slim's 10th Indian Brigade's attack on Gallabat and Metemma in November 1940, the brigade's British battalion, 1st bn Essex Regt, which broke and ran under a heavy air attack, is not named in the specific passage of text (although some pages earlier the composition of 10th Brigade is given, including 1st Essex). He just recounts that it was replaced by the 2nd bn HLI and that six months later it "fought with distinction in Syria and Iraq" - (as part of Habforce).Stephen Kirragetalk - contribs 22:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Arab Brigade
I have been reading a book about Brandenburgers and the part they played in this Iraq conflict. According to this book, an Arab Brigade (Arabische Brigade) was raised from among roughly 30,000 Arab volunteers. According to the same source, the Arab Brigade played havoc with the British troops advancing from Basra and also gave the Arab Legion a rough time.

I have found several references to an Arab unit raised in southern Russia, but I have found zero additiional information about an Arab Brigade fighting in Iraq.

Has anyone else seen anything about this unit? Thanking you in advance. Mkpumphrey (talk) 15:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

You removed all the supportive information ... so I removed the (now) "unsupported" statement
We discussed this a while back, anything added to an article should have inline citations added so that it makes the job of one day promoting this article to FA easier; all that would be left to do would be copyediting and MOS fixes. Linking to other articles is not suppoting information.

What I removed was over 120 words that had nothing to do with this subject and nothing that was supported either. Stating the Soviets recognised the Iraqis (sourced) and exchanged diplomatic information (unsupported) is one thing. Pointing out the Soviets and Germans were diplomatically friendly is another but joining the two events together is not sourced, which then went onto a ramble about the various agreements, Barbarossa and the Persian invasion.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 16:12, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There was no debate about removing what you removed ( ... I thought the then cozy relationship between Germany and the Soviet Union was somewhat related ... but I agree that it got out of hand). I just did not understand why you left the line you left and, after removing everything that supported it, indicated taht it was unsupported.  By the way, I added supportive information on the "exchanged diplomatic information" line.  However, while the New York Times is accessible, it is not free.  Mkpumphrey (talk) 21:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Links to Iraqi Divisions
The Iraqi divisions listed in the "Iraqi forces" section are linked to very modern versions of similarly numbered divisions. Does anyone know whether the 1st Iraqi Division of today has anything to do with the 1st Iraqi Infantry Division of the Anglo-Iraqi War?

I would not mind adding a "History" subsection to each modern division ... but I really do not know if there is any relationship. I get the idea that the current divisions do not even attempt to make any ties to similarly numbered divisions that existed during the Sadam Hussein regime.Mkpumphrey (talk) 15:29, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Commanders
What are the criteria for including a Commander's name in the Infobox? Right now we have a whole string of British "Commanders" and only two on the other side, one the head of government and the other a German ally who commanded a small part of the opposing forces. It looks unbalanced and seems to give the impression that the Allies were overwhelming. Dabbler (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I will see if I can identify the various Iraqi commanders. Mkpumphrey (talk) 02:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Still looking. Iraqi history (that I have access to) seems to be somewhat like Cold War-era Russian history where dead men and out of favor personalities tend to dissappear. Mkpumphrey (talk) 15:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Smart or Sharp?
Air Vice Marshal H G Smart apparently changes to AVM Sharp, in a random manner.

Does anyone know the persons correct name? Or were they two different people? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian16th (talk • contribs) 19:39, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you mean. I can't find Sharp anywhere in the article. Dabbler (talk) 22:23, 17 September 2013 (UTC)