Talk:Ann Arbor, Michigan/Archive 1

Too much on U-M???
I am in the process of expanding this article. However, is there a way of doing so without always having to mention the Univesity of Michigan? Thanks. Pentawing 02:40, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The only place I think there is gratuitous mention is in the culture section. There are plenty of cultural events not tied to the Uni, so that could be redone to discuss that the city has many cultural events, art fairs, etc, and that the University has many or a good portion of them too. Where else were you thinking it was too much? The places where the university has a significant impact, such as the economy, that should be noted as it is, in order to be comprehenisve and correct. - Taxman Talk 13:59, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * I tried rewording a bit, but from my own perspective the University does dominate the cultural scene in Ann Arbor. Hence, I am going to need some help in this area. The other sections aren't too much of a problem though. Pentawing 01:39, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, the city is influenced a lot by UoM, so it's just natural that the feeling of UoM all over the article I guess - and i don't see anything wrong with that. But I do agree with Pentawing, if there's a better way to put things it would be great. For a change, what about the picture of the house with big M? That could have been replaced with a more 'neutral' one, because that's a special case than what you normally find, and gives the already-UoM-smelling article an additional bias imho :-) Greenleaf 02:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. It would make a good UM picture, but it contributes to the overdoing it in this article. Aren't there some other prominent houses? Maybe a picture from Huron River drive at the neighborhood to the North? - Taxman Talk 22:36, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am going to try to take some pictures in the coming days. Some ideas I have include: a neighborhood with Tower Plaza in the background, Main Street, State Street, and the AATA buses. Pentawing 23:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

City government section

 * I almost forgot, but is there someone who is very knowledgeable about the city's government and be willing to add that section? Pentawing 06:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I added the government section, which needs to be checked though (I got the information from the city's website and arborweb.org). Pentawing 06:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Nice work on the government section, Pentawing! It might be worth adding that the city was one of the first in the U.S. -- if not the first -- to use Instant-runoff voting. (Covered in the IRV section of Human Rights Party.) The Observer's August 2005 article on the broad consensus between the two major parties in recent years might also be a good source. The paragraph in Marijuana laws in Ann Arbor, Michigan dealing with the 1990 charter referendum on abortion could merit reference as well. Ropcat 06:25, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a shot, but can you help me with that? Thanks. Pentawing 23:32, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey, Pentawing. Sure, absolutely, but I'll have to wait until early Sept as I'll be away and not on my computer until then. Let's confer later. Best, Ropcat 07:45, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Nicknames
I have never heard anyone call Ann Arbor "Ace Deuce". "Tree town" for sure, though.

A more common description of Ann Arbor has been that it is a "late sixties theme park".


 * Heh, I was just going to say that. I lived in Ann Arbor 25 years and never heard the term "Ace Deuce" until I read it here. Sounds like baloney to me. --Chowbok 23:41, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)


 * I have lived in Ann Arbor for 5 years and have never heard it called Ace Deuce either. "People's Republic of Ann Arbor" yes. "Tree Town" no - maybe I don't get out enough :). commonbrick


 * Tree town is pretty common, especially from rival towns. Ace deuce, never heard of it, so I think we should strike that one until it can be substantiated. - Taxman 03:21, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * "Tree Town" is also painted on a mural at the edge of town; you'll see it right after you get off the downtown exit from M-14. Funnyhat 21:09, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I just did a google search and Ace Deuce did turn up a few results... commonbrick 04:03, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm a 22-year old, born and raised in Ann Arbor and while it is a recent slang, Ace Deuce is definitely a very common term now, at least among my age group, although I'm not necessarily sure it should be added as a nickname yet -Dylan


 * Ace Deuce is extremely popular with people 15-23. Personally, I hate the term, but it does exist. eston 11:40, 07 Sept 2005

I removed the link to the external references below. Generally, text links within the body of an article should link to other articles in Wikipedia, not to external web sites (especially when there is or should be an article in WP for that item). Or external links can appear as numbered references, so it is clear (sort of) that it is not a typical link to another article.


 * Washtenaw Community College
 * Concordia University
 * Cleary University
 * Ave Maria School of Law
 * Eastern Michigan University in neighboring Ypsilanti

Economy and Industry

 * The large pharmaceutical research facility on the northeast side of town is currently part of Pfizer - it was previously part of Warner-Lambert and before that was part of Parke-Davis.
 * Since Warner-Lambert bought Parke-Davis and then Pfizer bought Warner-Lambert, the wording in this part of the article seems odd--almost as if one company moved out and another moved in. It's the same operation it always has been, just with different owners.


 * Domino's Pizza's headquarters are in Ann Arbor.
 * The original Borders Bookstore was in Ann Arbor, and the chain is still based there.
 * Ann Arbor Terminals, during the 1980s, the manufacturer of the famous video display terminal the Ann Arbor Ambassador, http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/408/1986/2/0/2153845/
 * Bendix Aerospace (do they still exist?)
 * ProQuest, including UMI
 * Arbortext, a provider of XML-based publishing software
 * Harris&Baseview, a provider of newspaper publishing software and ASP services
 * Ann Arbor is home to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory
 * Toyota Technical Center


 * Another company that has had a big impact is ERIM (now Veridian).
 * Well-known web things housed/headquartered in Ann Arbor include the All Music Guide, the Weather Underground and Everything2. Any interest in including such things? —rodii 18:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Aside from the Weather Underground (which I visited their office once), are you sure the other two web companies are based in Ann Arbor? Once you confirm that, I have no problems adding them to the article. Pentawing 22:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well our E2 article states that it is now hosted at UM. I don't know the veractiy of that nor anything about AMG. - Taxman Talk 23:03, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Re AMG: see the first question and answer here. —rodii
 * AMG is located directly opposite Herb David Guitar on E. Liberty, in the office building on the corner. Rather easy to miss, their logo isn't real prominent in the windows, but it's there. +felixjones

two changes to Events
two changes in events;

1- there are now five different juried art fairs held during the 'Ann Arbor Art Fair'. I do not know all their official names, but here is a list of what I know a- held by the State Street Merchants Association, don't know official name b- held by the Michigan Guild, don't know official name c- held by the South University Street Merchants Association, name unkown d- the original fair that started it all, no names, but its held on Thayer and North University area, by the clock tower e- official name 'Kings Chosen' I also added the text "many other artists and retail booths anywhere they can rent some space."

Well, writing this art fair starts in 3 days, so I may get my facts straight during that time.

2- added the Ann Arbor Shopping Cart Race, will work on getting more details.


 * a- State Street Art Fair
 * b- The Guild Summer Art Fair
 * c- (Ann Arbor's) South University Art Fair
 * d- Ann Arbor Street Art Fair
 * e- King's Chosen Art Fair is not considered to be one of the four Art Fairs---it's only very loosely juried, and on private land next to, but not in, the major traffic area.
 * Juicy 17:51, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Punk Week!
Hey, so about the shopping cart race, if you want to do that right you need to put that down as Punk Week. (I'm going to get killed for doing this.) That whole week consists of Punk shows, and the whole punk community from the surrounding USA comes out (we're talking drifters from as far as Cali). I kind of feel like it appearing in this Encyclopedia would be against the code though...

Additions and "History" subheadings
Hey everyone. This article is looking pretty nice. The "History" section is getting long enough that it would be a good idea to have sub-headings. Anyone want to take a stab at that? Maybe some of the stuff briefly listed under "History" also deserves separate, longer articles; for example: 1.) the Ann Arbor greenbelt could be a good article of its own, including past (failed) attempts to enact one, the intense debate leading up to the referendum, related debates on downtown density, etc. 2.) the "Free John Sinclair" 1971 concert/rally could perhaps get its own article, too. Ropcat 05:31, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Lake effect snow?
I think the last edit mentioning heavy snow and lake effect is wrong. Lake effect is mostly on land masses that are to the east of bodies of water so the prevailing easterly winds bring the snow to them. This happens all along the west side of Michigan and Cleveland, Buffalo for ex, but not Ann Arbor, Detroit, etc. Ann Arbor gets much less snow than the west side of the state or even Lansing typically. I don't have a source for that at hand, but I wonder where the info in the article came from. I didn't want to revert though. Sorry to be a spectator, but you're doing a great job overall. I also think the history section is too long for an overview article of a city, especially if your goal is to be a FA. - Taxman Talk 03:47, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * I found that information at the following: www.michiganvacations.com/regions/Ann-Arbor-Michigan.html. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure about it, but you could check on the website and note your opinion on it. Otherwise, I will remove the lake effect notation. Pentawing 04:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, reading that fits more into what I was thinking and the impression I got from the lake effect article. AA gets some of the lake effect to increase the cloudiness and gets more lake effect snow than say Minneapolis MN, but saying it gets a lot of snow because of it is overdoing it. Better than saying a lot anyway is finding a number for average snowfall, and some comparison of that to other areas. - Taxman Talk 04:37, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Should I then include the information or leave the climate information as is at the moment? Thanks. Pentawing 04:44, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I tweaked it a bit just so it didn't say heavy snowfall. For areas that get snow, 1-10 inches a month is certainly not heavy. It sounds reasonable that AA does have some climate effect from lake effect, so mentioning it in the way that source did, that it increases cloudiness should be done. I presume that increases the precipitation to more than what would occur without the lake effect, but the source didn't appear to say that from what I recall. If you have another available that would help. So something should go in about lake effect, maybe that it exists, but is less than the west side of the state, but I couldn't think of how to say it. - Taxman Talk 14:45, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

City topography
I added some information about topography by looking at a map from topozone.com. However, I need someone to look over my numbers to ensure that they are indeed correct. Thanks. Pentawing 18:56, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Captions
What does this mean? "The painting of Ann Arbor fire hydrants is decentralized." Is it meaning to say that there's no one, central authority in charge of painting them? Ropcat 21:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I am under that impression, though you may want to ask Tlogmer about it, since he had unloaded that image. Pentawing 21:51, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * I was attempting to be tongue-in-cheeck; more usefully, the downtown fire hydrants were all painted in art-style (whatever you want to call it) during the past couple years by U-M and public school students as part of a project called Fire Up Downtown (I wonder if they'll let us use their pictures). I'll make the caption more descriptive. Tlogmer 08:32, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Other matters
For the restaurant notation, it could probably be best to place it into the culture section, though I am also seeing some legitimate reasons to place it in the economy section. Pentawing 22:41, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Either way, it relates to the other, so I agree with the culture I think. That's part of what people think of when they think of Ann Arbor's culture is the Main street and other restaurants. - Taxman Talk 22:44, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

State capital
Should we be using "state capital" or "state capitol" in the history section? On the one hand, Ann Arbor was vying to become the capital (city), but on the other hand, the sentence in question is referring specifically to land set aside for the construction of a capitol (building). Ropcat 01:46, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I changed the notation to "capitol" since the wording implies a building rather than the entire city. Pentawing 20:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)