Talk:Ann Dunham/GA1

GA Review
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 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * Intro paragraph should have more than one sentence of biography.
 * I've added another paragraph, but I don't think it is finished just yet. I think we still need another paragraph, and I'm not certain the quote from Obama should appear in the lead. Viriditas (talk) 14:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Mostly done, although I'm never quite satisfied. I'm just not comfortable with the quote from Obama in the lead. Viriditas (talk) 15:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm comfortable with the quote - this is, after all, the real source of her notability. Tvoz / talk 07:30, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, but my point (poorly expressed) is that the quote doesn't summarize a discussion of Dunham's influence on Obama during his formative years. And there is quite a lot of material on this.  In other words, does the quote summarize an important point in the article? Viriditas (talk) 08:25, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a horrible question: what is the source for her full name at death being "Stanley Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro"? Sorry if this disrupts editing the body text for hours on end. Shii (tock) 03:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I think that is a good question. I don;t know how that long-winded rendition of her name ended up on top of the infobox, as it's pretty irregular and I don;t think we have any sources that support it. She is now commonly known as Ann Dunham, which is why the article is so-named,  and I think that's how the infobox should be stated. Tvoz / talk 07:30, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Old friends in Washington State recall her visiting them with her new baby in 1961.": This seems to be written specifically to address birther arguments, which is sloppy. Find more encyclopedic statements from each of the sources in turn.
 * This is very problematic. I tried to fix it but I found conflicting information in various sources.  I'll give it another go tomorrow.  Considering all the important information on this topic that doesn't appear here, it doesn't deserve more than a footnote.  I could use some help here, otherwise I'll try again. Viriditas (talk) 15:46, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This was a contentious part of this article, with conflicting sources giving bits and pieces of the story which were frequently contradictory. The quality of the sources varies widely - there was much discussion here on Talk regarding which sources were more reliable than others, and no real consensus was ever reached, but it reached a point where discussion was not getting anywhere and in my opinion way too much detail and quotes from sources was crammed into the text and footnotes, perhaps to prove a point, although what point that is is not particularly clear. The fact is that we don;t really know exactly what the chronology was, or exactly when Ann lived where - and I am not convinced that such minute detail about these few months of her life (especially when sources conflict) is essential to this biography. In fact I think it now has much more weight than is justified. Arguing about it was not productive, so the text has stood essentially the way it was before the latest round of editing, and it's difficult to know at this point what should be done. Tvoz / talk 07:30, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would argue for removal as it is minor point at best, and speculative at worst. Let's go with what we know. Viriditas (talk) 08:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * This is excellent. Good work.
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * I can tell you've tried to keep the focus on Dunham and off Obama, but there's still a bit of unfocused writing. Hasn't Soetoro-Ng written anything about her own childhood? She seems absent from the narrative.
 * I've found several articles about Dunham's batik collection, and Soetoro-Ng recently organized a tour of the batiks and they were exhibited in six art museums around the U.S. Soetoro-Ng talks quite a bit about the collection, and the history behind it along with her childhood memories.  I'll be adding this information where I can as it fulfills some of your request.  Also found a quote about her philosophy from Maya in "A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama’s Path".Viriditas (talk) 12:42, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Philosophy quote from Maya added to "personal beliefs" section. Viriditas (talk) 12:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Batik content and Maya's reminiscences to be added... Viriditas (talk) 12:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Added "Posthumous interest" section for batik exhibition. I also happened to found a lot more from Maya, so I hope to have this task finished in the next day or so. Viriditas (talk) 12:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dunham's motives throughout are kept somewhat mysterious. Do we know why she moved away from Hawaii, other than the excuse she gave her friends? Did Obama write about it?
 * In progress... Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The "Spiritual beliefs" section also seems a little crufty and unfocused. It could be fixed by turning it into a more general "Personal beliefs" section.
 * Agreed. The focus on her spiritual beliefs is totally out of proportion to her academic research as an anthropologist and should be reduced to one or two sentences at least.  Although I don't know the full story, it looks like someone was trying to make a WP:POINT about her views and whether the president shared these views.  I can't think of a single GA or FA article that has this kind of undue weight in terms of personal, "spiritual beliefs".  The structure of the article is also strange.  I've never seen a male biography constructed in terms of "marriages".  The article should be formed around her personal life and her professional career, not her marriages. Viriditas (talk) 12:58, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Changed section heading to "personal beliefs". Personal preference would be to merge the entire section into the body, but let's see what happens. More to come. Viriditas (talk) 12:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * Please find more source info for the second image
 * Added "Family photograph released by the Obama campaign in February 2008" with a news source. Most books and news credit the image as "Family photograph".  It looks like User:Sf46 cropped the photo from here.  Should we use the full photograph instead? Viriditas (talk) 00:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's pretty useful as a photo of her. Shii (tock) 00:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought so too. I was actually surprised to see the cropped version in the article.  Will upload asap. Viriditas (talk) 01:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Please adjust the size if necessary. Viriditas (talk) 03:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why aren't we using one of the dozen or so available images of Dunham in the infobox? Viriditas (talk) 11:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Added high school portrait (aged ~18). Viriditas (talk) 12:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Please address these issues and this article will pass easily. Shii (tock) 17:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Please address these issues and this article will pass easily. Shii (tock) 17:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I think this is all set. Shii (tock) 01:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks =- and thanks to Viriditas for all the work done to bring this up to GA. Tvoz / talk 21:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)