Talk:Ann Rule

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BRD
Let's try to discuss rather than editing over the top of one another and an edit war starting up, please. Obviously, things are going to change rapidly as news of her death gets out. As far as I can tell, the best references are the most local to Rule's home and family. Her daughter states she died on the 21st, a local news station states she was 84 at the time of her death and was born in October 1930. That seems the most accurate so far. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:00, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * For crying out loud. I am not adding ANY NEW INFORMATION to the article, if I haven't been clear. Connormah (talk) 22:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * You need not shout to be heard. Do you have something to discuss regarding article content?  As far as new content, yes, you did change her birth year as well as her date of death.  Both were incorrect. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  22:03, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You're making this way harder than this should be. Are you actually examining my edits and the sources before itching to revert everything? All the sources cited give July 26 (Including the AP) and the age as 83 now. The Oct. 1930 dob is not sourced. The 1931 one is. Furthermore, there is no reason at all to be reverting productive MOS edits. Connormah (talk) 22:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Recent research states Rules DOB Oct. 22, 1931, and DOD as July 26, 2015. Which still places her at age 84 time of death.

DOD
See the following for correct date of death:. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:16, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * My apologies, the day of death has changed. There are times when I really, really hate the media for posting things with certainty, and then reposting "corrections" when they should have gotten it right the first time.  I guess this is a lesson learned when it comes to internet news.  Ugh.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  22:18, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you're seeing. It says Sunday night. Connormah (talk) 22:16, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * AS for the DOB, I do see it now in that source. The AP and other sources are giving 1931 though and if the death age of 83 is correct, she had to have been born in 1931. I suspect the NYT will have an obit out containing the correct DOB within the coming days. Edit: Appears to be October 22, 1931 according to public records, but we'll have to wait for an RS to come up with the date. Connormah (talk) 22:20, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Although early on sources said she was 79, then changed it to 84. So, yes - until the obituary comes out, we don't know for sure. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  22:23, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * They're saying 84 now? It was 83 10 minutes ago. Quite the gongshow of reporting... Connormah (talk) 22:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Easy to see how we've all been so confused by all the date and day changes. "Reliable" is subjective when it comes to sourcing, I'd say. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  22:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Seems like it's just the year that's uncertain. Public records are sometimes wrong too. Hopefully we have an answer soon. Connormah (talk) 22:40, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The link in User:Winkelvi's post is now dead, so I can't check it. But we say in the article:
 * ... announced on July 26, 2015, that Rule had died a day earlier as a result of congestive heart failure.
 * On the face of it, that suggests she died on July 25. Can we please clarify this and tell the true story. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:24, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

DOB
, this source says in big, bold letters "October 1930 - July 2015". If her birth date was October 22, 1930, then yes - she was 84 at the time of her death, had not yet reached her 85th birthday this October. Your edit warring over this needs to stop. Your edit summary "It's a Facebook graphic, not reliable. The person who Photoshopped it probably checked Wikipedia." means nothing as we have no way of knowing where the news station got the content. But, since it's local to the area Rule lived and worked, they probably have the information from the daughter. Even so, guessing where they got it is speculation on your part. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 22:44, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * That comes from this Facebook page (and I can't see it at all in your link), which also includes stories saying she was 83. The math doesn't work. Whoever put that graphic together probably checked Wikipedia. You can't trust pictures people share on Facebook. It's the first rule of the Internet. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:49, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * From above, public records say Oct 22, 1931. Those are sometimes wrong however... it could be 1930 as well. The graphic appears to have existed before Oct. 1930's inclusion here on Wikipedia, fwiw. 1931 as a year of birth seems to be more widely reported at this stage though. This'll probably all be cleared up in a few days. Connormah (talk) 22:52, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Doubtful they checked Wikipedia. At the time the graphic came out, her year of birth in this article was 1936.  Again, your reasoning is based on speculation and speculation alone. -- WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓  22:55, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That part, sure. But the part where multiple reliable sources say she was 83, and this makes her 84 is pure basic math. 84 is greater than 83, and reliable sources + public records are greater than a Facebook picture, especially when the same local news behind the picture says 83 in their stories, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:01, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Well... an April 2015 article said she was 84 at the time . We just don't know... Connormah (talk) 23:02, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * When we don't know, we go with what most of the most up-to-date sources say. A Google News search for "ann rule 84" finds just this (which attributes the story to one that says 83 and doesn't mention a heart attack). 83 finds many, including from Entertainment Weekly, who seem to have changed their minds. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:08, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know. I had just finished using it as a source, that's why I was pretty certain the 1930 birth date was correct in conjunction with the KIRO graphic.  Both are reliable sources and published months apart.  I see no reason why the 1930 date would be in question using both sources.  Entertainment Weekly is questionable as a reliable source - the are basically along the same lines as TMZ.  -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓  23:11, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The LA Times just released an obit giving the public records date. Connormah (talk) 23:10, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * But they say it's "according to a biography on her website." I just used that bio to add the birthday. It doesn't mention a year. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:16, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

For now, I've added three sources, each indicate a different birth year, and have added wording to that effect. I've see this done at other articles when birth dates are unclear. We will know for sure when an official obituary (as submitted by the family) is published. Likely will be published by the mortuary handling her after-death details, burial, etc. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 23:24, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It'll be published by a newspaper, as they all are. But yeah, it'll be clearer then. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:31, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Mortuary website obituaries for "celebrities" are the most reliable for dates and events and the like as they are submitted by the family and confirmed by the death certificate via the mortuary. Celebrity obituaries are common in the bigger newspapers and are typically written by staff writers trying to impress with prose and their own paraphrased take on the individual's life.  God only knows where they get their information -- they are more likely to include errors.  Which was my point when I said that the mortuary website obits written by the family are the most reliable. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓  23:36, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * What the funeral home puts up on its site is from what the papers publish. Not the celebrity sort, but the "preceded in death by...services will be held at...in lieu of flowers" sort. More of a webhost than a publisher. But yeah, that's all beside the point. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:45, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You know, that's simply not true. Celebrity obituaries will vary per publication/newspaper.  Mortuaries publish the obituary given to them by the family, or the one they put together for the family.  Rule's daughter, Leslie Rule, is a published author, so my money is on her writing the obit.  From your comments on this, I'm guessing you've never had to deal with a funeral home when a loved one dies?  Anyway, this is all off-topic.  The birth year varies per reliable sources.  Our best source for correct dates will be the mortuary/funeral home website-published obituary.  -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓  23:51, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I spent my first decade in a funeral home that also ran the newspaper. After the funeral home closed down, I still typed out obituaries for the new funerals for a while. I'd never checked the facts against the death certificate, just took the family for its word, like any other classified. Haven't been on the other side of the process yet, but familiar with it. Might be different elsewhere. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:08, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Funny, the LOC CIP data gives 1936 as another year of birth. . Connormah (talk) 22:59, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

We have a new editor edit warring over the birth year, even with the embedded notes in place. They are removing them and insisting they are right about the birth year - refusing to take part in talk page discussion. If someone would like to take over in the reverting department should this continue, please do. I'm over the limit. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 04:44, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * That Huffington Post article that says she was 84 in April contains a link to the court documents the author based his story on. Those clearly say "Ann Rule, who is 83 years old and in poor health, has four biological children...".
 * So it seems fair to count that claim as bullshit. The other one is still just a Facebook picture, which I can't recall Wikipedia ever considering reliable. User:Winkelvi himself, who added this, explicitly said "A Facebook page is NOT "proof" of anything, as it is not considered a reliable source." Also "Do I think she's right about the age and birth year? Yes.  But that's not the point.  The point is we go by reliable sources, period. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:34, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * NYT says 1931 too. . Connormah (talk) 22:12, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * They pretty much all do, though three of those are the same AP story. We still trust AP, right? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:17, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

This is not only an interesting compilation of Rule's life, it's interesting to note that even the writer states there is confusion surrounding her birth year. That said, at this point, it seems most reliable sources I've found agree on October 22, 1931 as her birth date. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 02:26, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * So we can unlock the article now? InedibleHulk (talk) 07:52, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Why bother requesting it, the timer lock expires in about 21 hours. Might as well go edit an assault knife article until then. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  08:34, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * As if that's my call. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 15:02, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Not today. But I noted how the wealthiest Pole died "under the knife" and explained how the fightingest Irishman stabs people in their souls with his fists and feet of fury. That kills time, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:12, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I could spend 21 hours trying to understand what the hell you're talking about. ;) &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  09:18, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The Circle of Knife, generally. Conor McGregor (as Simba) and Jan Kulczyk (as Mufasa), specifically. Stick a knife on a pole, you've got a spear. In Ireland, the king of the spears is Gáe Bulg. Wikilinks are fun. Tick tock, tick talk. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:53, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll have what you're having. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  10:57, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Today's special is dead lion. It wasn't a conscious decision, but I guess I do have a bit of a one-track mind. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


 * By my GMT calculations, this timelock should've popped by now. Maybe we're trapped forever in a world of uncertainty? Or maybe not? InedibleHulk (talk) 06:36, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Turns out I'm stupid. It unlocked, I just saw the semi-protect lock icon the first time and backed away. It seems we're all in agreement now, so I've fixed the date. Not too bold of me, I hope. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Changed to and removed the hidden comment. If that's too bold, blame the Hulk. &#8213; Mandruss   &#9742;  14:57, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

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Verbatim
The "Family troubles, theft" section is nearly all copied & pasted verbatim from the HuffPo article cited as its source. Thought that sort of thing wasn't allowed on Wikipedia? (Just as an aside, it's BS that the charges against those greedy brats of hers were dropped because she died.) ScarletRibbons (talk) 20:55, 13 February 2019 (UTC)