Talk:Ann Walker (landowner)

Re-open discussion of stand-alone page for Ann Walker of Lightcliffe
I'm a relatively new editor on WP.

I have been asked by to create an article for Ann Walker of Lightcliffe, West Yorkshire, England. In my search I came across the merge and redirect of this article. I have viewed the original article and understand why the decision was made to merge and redirect to Anne Lister.

However, in the intervening time that this article was removed and archived new interest in Ann Walker of Lighcliffe has gained momentum most recently due to the popularity of the BBC/HBO drama series Gentleman Jack written/created/directed by Sally Wainwright and starring Suranne Jones as Anne Lister and Sophie Rundle as Ann Walker.

Additionally, there are several published secondary sources including books, theses, and peer-reviewed journal articles written by established academic writers such as Jill Liddington, Anne Choma, and Catherine Euler, as well as primary court documents and records regarding the proceedings of the lunacy commission (1843) and the contesting of her will. Ann Walker was an heiress, a philanthropist, and started her own Sunday school for children in Lightcliffe.

In light of the renewed interest and popularity of Ann Walker, as well as the abundance of sources of information available on Ann Walker beyond the diaries of Anne Lister, I'd like to ask that a stand-alone article for Ann Walker be reconsidered.

Ann Walker of Lightcliffe
I have since published an article on Ann Walker of Lightcliffe as of 10 November 2019. I continue to make edits to improve the quality of the article. I have been informed that French, Portuguese, German, Spanish, and Chinese translations have been published and that a Dutch translation is forthcoming. I understand translations do not effect the English version, but thought it worth mentioning that the LGBT community and Gentleman Jack fandom are completely in support of this project. You can follow the parent account on Twitter or their website  for news and contact information. You may contact me through my user page for any issues related to the article.

Kimdorris (talk) 18:45, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

refs multiple use
Rather than entering content for the same refs over and over again, editing to allow multiple use of same refs. David notMD (talk) 04:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * David notMD The majority of the references fixed were to two books citing specific page numbers in the book. These have been combined for ref=Choma and ref=FemaleFortune. I can go back later and add the specific page numbers in the citations to the combined references. Thank you. Kimdorris (talk) 02:39, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * When these book refs merged, now show all page numbers mentioned in the pervious separate refs to the same books. David notMD (talk) 07:52, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That may not be a good way of doing it as you do not know which page number that information is on for a specific fact. May be better to go for short ref type references where the individual pages are associated with the text they apply to and these link to a single entry for the book. Keith D (talk) 12:19, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Fund raising content not appropriate
I was not happy with the fund-raising aspect of the article about Ann, and so posted that question at Teahouse. Two more experienced editors agreed, and edited the article accordingly. Please do not restore to article. Either discuss here at Talk or at the Talk pages of the editors. David notMD (talk) 23:43, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Reference to Ann Walker Memorial Foundation
From what I can gather from social media and the website, the Ann Walker Memorial Foundation (AWMF) is in the process of folding. The AWMF About Us page https://annwalkermemorialfoundation.org/about/ is used as a reference in the article. Either before the page disappears or upon its removal, the corresponding reference (citation) will also need to be removed. The author for the citation in question is Alexa Tansley, for easier removal. I can remove the citation or change to web archive link when the page becomes extinct or someone else can feel free to do it beforehand. Just wanted to bring this to other editors' attention as soon as I became aware. Cheers. Kimdorris (talk) 23:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The source lives forever on the Internet archive.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 23:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Thank you. Kimdorris (talk) 01:35, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Removal of Sources
I'm curious why the Sources section was removed along with each source that was listed when other pages (ex. Anne Lister) have Sources as well as References sections. The specific revisions in question are: I'd appreciate any insight why these might have been removed. Thanks. Kimdorris (talk) 04:04, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * 940599751
 * 940599932
 * 940600086
 * 940600195
 * 940600311
 * Kimdorris, it looks to me like those were removed per WP:GENREF, and I think I generally agree with the removal: if a source is already discussed in the article and cited with an inline reference, listing it separately as a general source strikes me as unnecessary. It might be useful to recast the "Sources" section as "Further Reading" (see MOS:FURTHER). Your thoughts? Suriname0 (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the reply. I will read over the docs you've referred to & provide a response. I greatly appreciate the feedback. Thank you much. Kimdorris (talk) 20:15, 17 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Suriname0 I've reviewed MOS:FURTHER. I don't disagree with your assessment of why Sources section was removed or with your recommendation to change it to Further reading section. However, I'd like to point out that when this article on Ann Walker was written the author used Anne Lister's article as a template, which does have a Sources section. Many, if not all, of the Sources listed in that section are also listed in the References section. My understanding of the proper listing of Sources and Further reading is no clearer than when I first posed the question. I hope someone with much more experience than I can shed light on this question. Kimdorris (talk) 03:37, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Ann Walker of Lightcliffe (as such)
Is this an actual title? Could we have reference? Valetude (talk) 23:39, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Valetude – No, not a formal title per se, but rather an inexperienced editor's [me] attempt at distinguishing this article from a previously deleted article, as well as from a red-linked page for an American actress. The now deleted article was called Ann Walker (died 1854) and was quickly marked AfD. Lightcliffe is the name of the estate, as well as the archive collection name, that belonged to her family. The West Yorkshire Archive Service in Halifax, West Yorkshire holds the collection of letters, deeds, account books, etc. They also hold the Shibden Hall collection where Anne Lister's diaries and other papers are held.

I'm okay with proposing a name change and moving the article to something more suitable that follows WP naming convention. Perhaps Ann Walker (Lightcliffe). There are approximately 9 translations that I am aware of that we'll need to make sure remain linked after the name change. I know the Wikidata pages were swapped at one point. Meaning the new Wikidata page created along with the new article was deleted and this page was connected to the original Wikidata page.

PS sorry for the late reply. I didn't see the post to this talk page until you posted to my talk page tonight. If you could tag me that should alert me with a notification. Kimdorris (talk) 04:28, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Copied below comment from my talk page. Kimdorris (talk) 07:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

"I think 'Ann Walker (LGBT pioneer)' would be a better categorisation. 'Ann Walker of Lightcliffe' seems to be a so-what, and just invites the same query that I made. Valetude (talk) 07:07, 18 March 2021 (UTC)"


 * I think "LGBT Pioneer" might be too grandiose. However, I'm happy to open it up for discussion at this point because we could discuss this all day, but it should really be opened to other opinions. I'll take care of opening the discussion. Thank you for bringing up the question. Kimdorris (talk) 07:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * After reading the naming guidelines it doesn't seem the LGBT Pioneer would conform. We could go with Ann Walker without any qualifier. However any links to the actress that are added without being tested will automatically redirect to the wrong page. I think something like English landowner would be adequate as it is what's listed as her occupation on the Wikidata page. I feel comfortable making this change without opening it for discussion. Let's let this discussion sit and see if we get any further comments. If not I'll make the change in a few days. Kimdorris (talk) 08:34, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I'd support this name change. "English landowner" seems fine.Suriname0 (talk) 14:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Suriname0 for the support. After additional reading and looking at examples I think Ann Walker (landowner) is sufficient as there isn't another Ann Walker at the moment, although there are a few Anne Walker articles. Kimdorris (talk) 02:22, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Ann Walker (landowner) Page Move Complete
Hey page editor's: Wanted to let you know I've completed the page move/article rename as previously agreed. I'm finishing up the post-move tasks and hope to be done shortly. Let me know if you run into any issues as this was my first attempt at a page move. Seems to have been fairly straightforward. I'll make an announcement on Twitter about the name change as that's where the excitement for getting a page for Ann Walker as well as the multiple translations all came from – The #GentlemanJack & #AnneListerCodeBreaker communities. That's it. Thank you for the suggestion Valetude & support Suriname0. Cheers. Kimdorris (talk) 11:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)