Talk:Anna Bongiorni

The sport is Athletics or Track & Field? The specialization is 100 m + 4x100 m relay or is right Sprinting?
I am referring to this roll back of the User:Lugnuts (already 5 times blocked for edit war). Tell me he is right and I retire in good order :) --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:08, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * They're an athlete who specialises in the 100m/4x100m. 100m is an event. 4x100m is an event. For example the 4x100m at the 2015 World Champs (and ALL other disciplines) are listed as EVENTS in the infobox 2015 World Championships in Athletics. Time for you to retire then!  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 13:11, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * For example at the 2017 Summer Universiade she tomorrow is in the final of the 200 metres. --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:14, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Since I see that for the pages you have on your watchlist (we're talking about the 7th user who has created more pages on Wikipedia), you always want to have the latest edit at all costs, and this has caused you a lot of alerts in your curriculum (what I do not want to do), so why do not we agree, maybe I would to add one single letter after I do my edits and you take it off, so it's your last edit. :D --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:19, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Or you can stop fucking around with your trolling. Either is good.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 13:21, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * There's somewhat of a standard here in infoboxes, Usain Bolt as an example has "sprints" listed for his events, as he has appeared in multiple ones being the 100m, 200m, 400m and 4 X 100m. I saw the same for Michael Johnson and Edwin Moses where the name of the event, not the specific event was listed. As for the name of the sport, that should be Track & Field. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:22, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * As I said if one is right, and how does it explain to you how you are doing, it's fine to me. Only if he had 5 blocks to edit war and uses the bad words to other users is another matter. --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:32, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Looking at other Good Articles, Dwain Chambers, Tyson Gay and Walter Dix all list the actual events.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 13:36, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Good point. I honestly feel that leaving the box as is right now is perfectly fine. If she ends up in more events, then perhaps switching to the generic sprints might be good for the sake of brevity. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:41, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, which is what I tend to do, to avoid clutter.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 13:50, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Track and Field is more specific than Athletics, so Lugnuts is correct. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:35, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * And what about Athletics at the Summer Olympics or IAAF World Championships in Athletics? --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:40, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If you see the incipit of Sport of Athletics: «Athletics is a collection of sporting events that involve competitive running, jumping, throwing, and walking. The most common types of athletics competitions are track and field, road running, cross country running, and race walking.», you can learn that Athletics is the sport, Track & Field is a part of it. --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:45, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * They're all listed as EVENTS at Sports Reference example and at the Olympics website.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 13:48, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Kasper2006, however read the intro to Track and field: "Track and field is a sport which includes athletic contests established on the skills of running, jumping, and throwing." Track and Field is a sport that is under the umbrella of Athletics. So track and field would be perfectly fine to use in these cases since these are track and field events. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:50, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If it was as you say (T & F is a sport) then they should exist Track & Field World Championships, Road Running World Championships, Race Walking World Championships and Cross Country Running World Championships. But exist only Athletics World Championships. --Kasper2006 (talk) 14:05, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

I saw that it had already been abundantly discussed here in 2010. --Kasper2006 (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * So Kasper, are Sports Reference example and at the Olympics wrong? And the articles for Dwain Chambers, Tyson Gay and Walter Dix too?  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 14:02, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * - for some reason you're avoiding this! I can't think why. Are these all wrong? It's a straight-forward question.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 14:10, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * See the disclaimer at the Athletics disambiguation page: Track & Field is only the yankee version of the name Athletics. --Kasper2006 (talk) 14:08, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yankee? You really should educate yourself and not throw around a pejorative term like that. And you've still not answered the question.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 14:14, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not telling you that your links are wrong, I've told you that the question has long been discussed in the past and they have come to the conclusion that Track & Field is the North American version of Athletics, which is used in the rest of the world and is the official name of the sport, including IAAF. --Kasper2006 (talk) 14:22, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * "I'm not telling you that your links are wrong" - so they're right. And as this isn't an American either, therefore...  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 14:23, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The two links you gave me, if you open them, say, respectively: Athletics at the 1996 Atlanta Summer Games:- Men's 100 metre and Athletics. That is exactly what I say, sport is Athletics, not the Track & Field. --Kasper2006 (talk) 14:29, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Look a bit more closely - they both say the 100m are EVENTS which was the whole issue you had in the first place. Please also apologise for your ignorant racist remark too.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 16:20, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Than that many pages of the Athletics, such as those listed, are written by guys from the USA, I find it quite normal. For them the name of sport has always been Track & Field. --Kasper2006 (talk) 14:33, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * "as this isn't an American either, therefore..." - WP:ENGVAR says that if the article subject has a particular connection with an English-speaking country, that's the version of English you use, failing that you use the version that was first used in the article. Working on geography articles I interpret the "connection" thing to mean "use the version of English spoken in the nearest Anglophone country", as more eg Brits visit France and USians visit Mexico, so if there's nothing more obvious I use British English in European articles and US English in Latin American articles.Le Deluge (talk) 14:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Athletics versus Track & Field is primarily an WP:ENGVAR thing, which would mean that you use T&F for US athletes and athletics for British etc athletes - qv the governing body, the International Association of Athletics Federations. You are starting to see T&F a little bit in the UK to refer to "stadium" events as opposed to cross country and road racing, but it's not at all common - Kasper2006's definition above looks like an attempt to craft a global compromise which doesn't reflect local usage. As far as "sprints" etc are concerned - the main thing with infoboxes is that in general they shouldn't have more than three items in a category. "Sprints" looks like a convenient way to keep that number down - also even a "100m specialist" becomes a "60m specialist" during the indoor season, and sprinters often end up doing the odd event at funny distances like 300m or 100 yards. I wouldn't totally oppose someone being listed as "100m,200m,4x100m" if that's all they did, but someone like Carl Lewis would be better listed as "Sprints and long jump". Concise is always good in infoboxes, they're meant to give a taste not the full meal.Le Deluge (talk) 14:03, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Don't forget that famous participant in stadium events, the Oakland Athletics. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:27, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No doubt some of their players benefited from athletic scholarships. That meaning of athletics as a sort of synonym for all sport disappeared from British English certainly by WWII, probably earlier. The only place you really see "Athletic" in that sense in British English now is as "fossils" in pre-WWI team names such as Charlton Athletic and Oldham Athletic. This is just one of those football vs soccer arguments - regardless of the "logic", one has to accept that people from one place call a sport one thing, and people from another place call the same thing by a different name. Which is where WP:ENGVAR comes in.... Le Deluge (talk) 20:33, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Then there's Durham Bulls Athletic Park, which opened in 1995. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:06, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

We had a big discussion about this. IAAF and UK Athletics use the term for their organizing bodies. Essentially it is WP:ENGVAR. The term "athletics" in International diplomacy, the Olympics and in most British dominated countries means the sport. In USA, it means all sports, while "track and field" describes the sport. USATF is USA's governing body. They changed their name in 1992 from TAC (The Athletics Congress) because people in the general public didn't know what they were. I use Track and field in most of my writings, because I mostly write about athletes who have heavy association to USA, but the term might be considered out of place for a British athlete. Choose you poison, neither is an absolute. Not worth fighting an edit war over.

Regarding specializations, I tend to write the broader definition, but some athletes are known for a specific event and "also" have excelled in others. Edwin Moses is known for 400 metres hurdles even though he occasionally also ran other events. Trackinfo (talk) 04:24, 26 August 2017 (UTC)