Talk:Anna Hutsol

Anna Hutsol is not named Anna Gutsol
Anna Hutsol gets 2x as much google hits then Anna Gutsol. Romanization of Ukrainian has beat Romanization of Russian. Hence I moved this page today. —  Yulia Romero (formerly Mariah-Yulia)  • Talk to me!  21:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with Yulia. And I am puzzled as to why someone has changed her name on Wikipedia from Anna to Hanna, without any explanation. Her name in Ukrainian is анна Гуцол not Ганна Гуцол. AlanD1956 (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Dear Alan, you are wrong... Her name in Ukrainian is Hanna Hutsel thus her name spelled in the Ukrainian alphabet is Гaнна Гуцол, not Aнна Гуцол. Hanna is the Ukrainian form of the name Anna (Anna is the Russian form of the name Anna). Anna Hutsel seems to be her WP:COMMONNAME, but that is something different. Spelling her name in Ukrainian as Anna Hutsol (=Aнна Гуцол) is wrong. This is not that strange since Louise, Aloisia and Luise are, respectively, French and German feminine forms of Louis. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:50, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * PS I don't blame you for not knowhing this; back in 2004 I would have made the same mistake as yours ;). —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  19:12, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. Her own blog gives her name as анна Гуцол - but I accept that that is in Russian not Ukrainian. I am puzzled as to why you are now spelling her surname as 'Hutsel' rather than 'Hutsol'? I am also puzzled as to why we now have two different dates of birth for her? btw I would agree with your suggestion to merge this page into the main Femen page. AlanD1956 (talk) 08:47, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Many Ukrainians use the "Russian version" of there name and not the "Ukrainian version".... Since she is from Kiev where Ukrainian is not overwhelmingly dominant as in per example Lviv (not sure how dominant Ukrainian is in Kiev.... (I did ask around when I was there and I was told that Russian was dominant...) but people in Lviv speak almost no Russian with each other). By the way it could be that she pronounces her own last name as Gotsel since the Russian language has no H-sound and the Ukrainian language does have a H-sound... But per WP:COMMONNAME that is irrelevant... I typed 'Hutsel' rather than 'Hutsol' per mistake..... There is an ethic group in West-Ukraine named Hutsuls, I simply got a bit confused with that... As for her birth date... I am not sure... I will try to find a respectable source that gives it.... —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

PS Her Blog is on a Russian Newspaper website... So no wonder they don't use her "Ukrainian name" there... Germans call Lviv still Lemberg while it is not a part of Austria since 1917.... —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  17:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I agree that many Ukrainians use the "Russian version" of their name and not the "Ukrainian version". And when Hutsol was born, Kiev was still part of the USSR. So I would have thought that her birth certificate might give her name as анна rather than Ганна. But regardless of what is on her birth certificate, I think that her WP:COMMONNAME should be Anna Hutsol not Hanna. AlanD1956 (talk) 09:02, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well both Russian and Ukrainian were official languages in the Soviet Union (Source:Language Policy in the Soviet Union by L.A. Grenoble)... Not sure what languages the birth certificates of thew USSR had, but that is not relevant anyhow.... —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:14, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

It may also be worth noting that, according to Gail Ackerman's recent book on Femen, Anna Hutsol was actually born in Murmansk (in Russia) and she lived in Russia until her parents moved to Ukraine in 1991. AlanD1956 (talk) 07:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Good find! Does the book say if they moved to Ukraine before Ukraine declared its independence from the Soviet Union on 24 August 1991? Since both Russia and Ukraine where part of the Soviet Union since 1920 till Ukraine declared its independence from the Soviet Union on 24 August 1991 if they did move to Ukraine before 24 August 1991 they did not leave the Soviet Union (Sources: A History of Ukraine: The Land and Its Peoples by Paul Robert Magocsi, University of Toronto Press, 2010, ISBN: 1442610212 (page 563/564 & 722/723). If the book makes no mention of this in the big picture of things it makes no difference... But I think we should not try to make people believe that Russia and Ukraine where 2 independent countries before 24 August 1991... (even though I prefer(red) an Ukrainian independent state long before 1991). —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:03, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

The book says 'the end of 1991' suggesting that Hutsol's parents moved shortly after Ukraine declared independence. AlanD1956 (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info; I just changed a footnote in the article to reflect the info you gave me/Wikipedia on 16 April 2013. Since the Russian SSR became Russia on 1-1-1992 (although by then it was the only Soviet Republic who did not had declared it's independence from the USSR and it never did so) I guess you could say that Hutsol was one of the few "Soviet emigrants to Ukraine". —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  15:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Name
Please don't add any speculations about reasons how and why she is named so. In the official, business documents written: Anna Vasylivna Hutsol Account: 26258011152838 Kyiv branch of Unicredit Bank

Which means it is her officially documented full name. Please notice that surname and patronymic are written as Ukrainian. Hence her official name is "Anna". Please also notice that Ukrainian passport is bilingual ua/en. Staszek Lem (talk) 02:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You are right... I because of some OR interactions I expected that Ukrainian civil servants only used "Ukrainian versions" of names, but in the picture to your right I see they don't always do that... (Grytsenko instead of Hrytsenko). Excuse my honest mistake. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:41, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, this used to be so in Lithuania. Polish minority had to have a serious fight against compulsory lithuanizing of Polish surnames: Sienkiewicz -> Sienkiewicius. (And I now see this is not covered in wikipedia; me work do :-) But in Ukraine tehre are areas with strong Russian majority and where officials may be not so fluent in "mova". So your photo may just as well be a "honest" (or not) mistake (or not; depending on the year of issue). (And, by the way, being non-representative, may be a disservice to wikipedia). In any case, this was not your mistake. You just tried to explain unexplainable: how people name each other :-).  Staszek Lem (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Well my own OR experience was in Crimea... So be sure not to generalize. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep. I believe there is a policy somewhere in wikipedia to this end. :-) Staszek Lem (talk)

The fact that Russian language does not have this sound "h" has no relation to the article. For example Галичина is not written "Аличина" in Russian. Staszek Lem (talk) 02:35, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Born in Murmansk per Ackermann book

 * According to this interview http://focus.ua/society/132643 she was born in Khmelnytskyi, Ukraine --Oberbootsmann (talk) 09:14, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hearsay. Not her words. So far the book source looks more reliable. ru: and uk: wikipedias don't give refs. Staszek Lem (talk) 02:36, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * At last she (like some of her femen-friends) studied in Khmelnytskyi. And they refer themselves as Хмельницкая банда --Oberbootsmann (talk) 07:23, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Feel free Oberbootsmann to include into this article the info that she studied in Khmelnytskyi (with the inclusion of the reference of course ). Since people from Western Ukraine (where Khmelnytskyi is situated) are usually more active then Ukrainians from the rest of Ukraine (I assume this is so because Western Ukraine was never part of Tsarist Russia) it does not come as a surprise to me that she (at least) grew up there...  —  Yulia Romero  •  Talk to me!  15:12, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Khmelnytskyi was part of Tsarist Russia since 1795, see here: ‎ --Oberbootsmann (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Correction: most of Western Ukraine was never in Russia. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:42, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Staszek that the Ackermann book is the most reliable source for her birthplace, as the second chapter of the book consists of a 15-page interview with her in which she specifically states (at page 45 of the book) that although her parents had come from Khmelnytskyi, she was born in Murmansk, where her father was working: "c'est la-bas qu'ils  se sont mariés et m'ont mise au monde, en 1984". AlanD1956 (talk) 08:04, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

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