Talk:Anna Pavlova

Media:Pavlova.JPG
The below text was posted at [[Media:Pavlova.JPG]] by User:203.101.238.121. I moved it here. -- Infrogmation 15:46, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

An equal if different force, as compared to Diaghilev's, in the rapid growth of ballet durring the early 20th century, was that exert by Anna Paviova. A student at Maryinsky, Pavlova's talent was evident long before graduation. Frail and slim with exquisitely formed legs and feet, she embodied the antithesis of the muscularly powerful, turn-of-the-century Russian ballerina. Her teachers, principally Gerdt, Johansson, Vazerm, and Cecchetti, recognized her unique gifts and were jointly instrumental in developing her artisttry. Instead of allowing her to complete with the athletic feats her contemporaries, they encouraged her delicacy, lightness, and natural grace. Pavlova's highly personal style marked a revival of the appreciation of qualities made so famous by Taglioi, whose artistic heir she came to be a wonderful dancer.


 * That's very lovely. What about this reburial thing? I am finding plenty of news articles on line saying that the reburial was held up in March 2001 because they couldn't find any documentation that she wanted to be buried in Russia. Also, it says her family in Russia opposed it, the idea being that she'd made it clear that England was her adoptive country. This is what happens when you don't make out a will. Has she actually been reburied at Novodevichy, or is there still a holdup on that? If so, what date (year) was it? --Bluejay Young 04:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Soon I shall improve this article. So much important history is left out - Pavlova's work with the Imperial Ballet, and her tours. She hardly danced with the Ballet Russe. Mrlopez2681 08:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC) Prior to 12/7/03 Anna Pavlova's ashes were still retained at Golders Green cemertary in London.

Fair use rationale for Image:Anna Pavlova - La Bayadere -1902.jpg
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BetacommandBot 01:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

pointe shoes
The following passage from the Anna Pavlova page does not make sense:

"Her feet were extremely rigid, so she strengthened her pointe shoe by adding a piece of hard wood on the soles for support ... many considered this 'cheating', for a Ballerina of the era was taught that she, not her shoes, must hold her weight in pointe. In Pavlova's case this was extremely easy, as the shape of her feet required her to balance her weight on her little toes."

If "Her feet were extremely rigid" she would not have been adding what is now called a shank, at least not because of that; nor would it have been "extremely easy ... to balance her weight on her little toes." The facts about her shoes may well be correct but this explanation of it is completely inside out and upside down! — Robert Greer (talk) 04:51, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Final Words
I have no resources regarding this, but I came across a famous last words list and she was listed as having said, "Get my swan costume ready." But here it is listed as "Play the last measure slowly." If there are any experts on the subject, you might want to look into this... --68.205.251.91 (talk) 22:52, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Softly. It came from Margot Fonteyn's book on Pavlova. If the reference is not in there I can put it in. --Bluejay Young (talk) 08:22, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Dating issue
At one point the article states that Pavlova began her company in the mid 1900s. This is unclear. Do they mean between 1900 and 1910? She had only become primar ballerina (or Russian equivalent) in 1906, and I would not think she had started a company before then. If it was within the first decade, then the text is innaccurate, as mid 1900s refers to the middle of the century. As she passed away in 1931, the mid 1900s with respect to the century is not accurate. Could someone with knowledge of primary sources repair? Thanks. Peacedance (talk) 18:53, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Per Britannica: "After 1913 she danced independently with her own company throughout the world." Also, per Britannica, Victor Dandre WAS her husband. 69.113.81.241 (talk) 03:16, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Pavlova Cake
this famous cake from foam eggs in the oven is bt name of this ballet dancer ? . פארוק (talk) 16:56, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. It's already in the article. Beastiepaws (talk) 22:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a controversy over whether it was invented and named after her in Australia vs. New Zealand?203.45.1.54 (talk) 00:37, 1 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed. See Pavlova (food) and Talk:Pavlova (food).  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  00:54, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it is in fact this cake that is the only reason that the dancer is famous or remembered. 203.46.132.214 (talk) 06:45, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Edited the unsourced claim that it came from Wellington. No one knows that and it is subject to much debate. --An account like all others (talk) 01:43, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Ivy House
The article gave the impression that she lived in two house, in Hampstead and in Golders Green, whereas the house is in Golders Green, just north of Hampstead. Have corrected accordingly. Unfortunately the museum there seems to be gone. Straw Cat (talk) 18:34, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Date of Birth
Is there a definitive source for he date of birth. In Wikipedia we have 16 February 1882 in this here article, we also have her DOB under February 12 1881. The first reference, here, give 31 January 1881. Britannica gives '''Jan. 31 [Feb. 12, New Style], 1881'''. Any comments? Jan 1 naD (talk • contrib) 12:23, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * It's generally agreed that she was born on 31 January 1881, according to the Julian calendar in use in Russia at that time. That was equivalent to 12 February 1881 in the Gregorian calendar used in the West.  I'll amend the lede to show both dates, so that there's no doubt.  The date 16 February or the year 1882 are not supported by most sources.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  23:30, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Tidying
I've just spent some time clearing up some messy but apparently well-intentioned editing. Someone had attempted to put the following text beneath 'Notes':


 * Two of Anna Pavlova's students were Frankisek Karhanek of Russia and Prima Ballerina Irina Kladivova of Czech descent. When Prague, Czechoslovakia was bombed under SS leader Reinhard Heydrick, the Czech people were to be subjugated. Irina and Frankisek Karhanek defected to the United States of America. They started several ballet studios and taught hundreds of students.They learned to read and write English and changed their last name to Pal. Wichita Falls, Texas is where they are buried. Irina Pal would often speak of her teacher Anna Pavlova who taught them Classical Ballet using French terms. The Pals became American citizens in 1955. They were members of the First Christian Church of Wichita Falls, Texas. exert by Brenda Kay Winters,ballet dancer, teacher (1952- present),former student of Frank and Irina Pal.

I leave it to someone else to decide whether any of this deserves a place in the article - I assume it's effectively OR by Brenda Kay Winters, but it may be worth rescuing. Alfietucker (talk) 20:51, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Uhh the intro paragraph needs a major clean up. Oh_Man — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.173.222 (talk) 02:32, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

The unsubstantiated claim is made that Frank and Irina were Pavlova's students. The Pal's biography, beginning with their birth to her death can be found in the book 'Married to Dance' by Lynn Hoggard, 1995, isbn 0-915323-08-7. Although it is quite possible Irina(1921-1992) may have seen Pavlova perform, and Frank may have attended a workshop; it is not noted in the book, something Professor Hoggard would have picked up during direct interviews of Frank and Irina. His first performance (Swan Lake) was in 1930 at the Prague National Theater. Frank and Irina did not meet until seven years later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C082:BAB0:2C41:1D69:5390:E807 (talk) 08:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

"Cadilan" birds?
The word "Cadilan" appears in this article and nowhere else in Wikipedia. Google guesses it might be a mistake for cardinal. Can someone check the cited biography? 209.179.99.136 (talk) 02:41, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

OK, I just found Dandré's biography of Pavlova in a library and it offers only dubious support for the name "cadilan":
 * A Malay servant...told her in broken English that the bird---a cadilan---(presumably its Malay name) would return to its cage.

(p. 346). In view of the rest of the "Pets" chapter, which indicates that Pavlova kept many different types of birds, I see no reason to single out the "cadilans", whatever they actually are. I'll be changing the article accordingly. 170.140.147.162 (talk) 18:24, 7 March 2014 (UTC) (same unregistered user, at a different IP).

External links modified
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Pavlova's Personality
The article is adequate in terms of correct dates and places, but it gives little impression of Pavlova's personality. According to Bronislava Nijinsky's autobiography, Pavlova was notoriously selfish, jealous and ungenerous in her relationships with other dancers. In one interview, for example, Pavlov mocked Vaslav Nijinsky's fame. She said that a dozen dancers in modern times had his technical facility, and that he would have been considered nothing special to a new generation. She seems not to have understood that it was the combination of incomparable charisma with expert technique that made him famous. Younggoldchip (talk) 17:24, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

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What does La petite sauvage mean?
This sentence looks wrong: I think the translation of 'La petite sauvage' may be wrong. Presumably this is French, in spite of it supposedly being used in the Imperial Ballet School in Russia. Wiktionary (sauvage) gives the primary meanings 'wild' and 'untamed', with a secondary meaning 'Amerindian' (especially Canada, obsolete, offensive – Louisiana, offensive). I think that 'savage' is a false friend.
 * Her fellow students taunted her with such nicknames as The broom and La petite sauvage (The little savage).

I propose that we change the translation to 'The wild girl'. Or would 'The little squaw' be appropriate? Comments please Verbcatcher (talk) 19:39, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Pronunciation of name
The accent is on the first syllable. Useful to show thisSeadowns (talk) 14:01, 22 January 2019 (UTC).

Whose bourrées were "like a string of pearls"?
A number of things were changed in this vandalism edit on 27 February 2008 that never got changed back. One was that Cyril Beaumont became Cyril Johnson, who was eventually unlinked. However, the original sentence read:
 * The ballet writer Cyril Beaumont described that "her bourées were like a string of pearls".

When I came to change back the critic's name, I found someone else's bourrées being so described:
 * One of her dancers, Kathleen Crofton, was reviewed by the ballet writer Cyril Johnson, he said that "her bourrées were like a string of pearls".

WikiBlame seems to be down; it took a lot of searching without it to find the bad edit (I was looking for the introduction of the unlikely balancing on her little toe) and without the tool, finding where the quote became attributed to someone other than Pavlova will also take a lot of effort, and I can't find it online except in Wikipedia mirrors. Does anyone have the literature to hand to sort it out? In the interim I've left the sentence commented out with the comma splice fixed:
 * When one of her dancers, Kathleen Crofton, was reviewed by the ballet writer Cyril Beaumont, he wrote that "her bourrées were like a string of pearls".

Yngvadottir (talk) 04:51, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Spelling as "Pavlowa"
In some contemporary English-language publications, her name is spelled Pavlowa, such as here: (undated),  (about 1915), and  (1926). As far as I'm aware, her name was always spelled Павлова in Cyrillic, and I wonder where the "w" came from. Perhaps she liked the spelling because it seemed more exotic? There's no indication in the article of this being the official spelling of her own independent ballet company, however. Any ideas? Milkunderwood (talk) 04:23, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:23, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Pavlova by Malvina Hoffman.jpg

possible Jewishness
https://lilith.org/2016/11/yes-these-famous-ballerinas-are-jewish/

This article seems certain that Martyev was not her father, but that Lazar is only a possible candidate - although how can we be sure? The article didn't cite sources - I will try and find some. 94.196.236.87 (talk) 10:33, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Point Shoes Source
I went looking for more information on the claim that Anna Pavlova put leather in her shoes and was the first to do so, but when I went through the listed source (which is available to be borrowed from the internet archive) I could find passages mentioning she had "high insteps," but no claims about her putting leather in the shoes, only that the ends were stitched as were custom in the times. Is this section accurate? Are there any other sources that directly confirm this? https://archive.org/details/pavlovaportraito0000font_r8f8 Realwikibot (talk) 22:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Missing source? Or misinformation
"She refused to have the surgery, saying 'If I can't dance, then I'd rather be dead.' " I'm sorry, what's the source on that? I've looked into what Victor Dandré wrote about her death in "Anna Pavlova: In Art & Life" and that's not what's written there. 85.249.165.230 (talk) 19:13, 15 July 2023 (UTC)