Talk:Annette Lee

Collaboration of further authors
I have requested the help from a few others singapore based contributors who have contributed to the online media space in Singapore. I have written on the talk page of User:S9929527I, User:LMX97, User:Deoma12, User:Rqiang84 and‎ User:LeeChoonYeeLcy as they are regular contributors to many other local singapore media pages. Iz55 (talk) 01:47, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Contested mention of Grammy winning producer
You had mentioned that the article doesn't mention about Ed Cash's Grammy but having a Grammy winning producer helps the audience understand the producer. For example, i noticed that you like NCIS (Which i love). Tony Dinozzo shared his first kiss with academy mosssad agent ziva david. This would illuminate the audience's understanding of Ziva, but also of Tony. Please correct me if i am wrong! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iz55 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, that's not how notability works and it's not a good analogy. Her working with a producer who has received a Grammy is sufficient to establish significance but his grammy award is completely and totally irrelevant to the article and adding it at least 3 times in the article was nothing more than an attempt to pad the article, as I said on my talk page. CHRISSY MAD  ❯❯❯  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  14:09, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I have now asked you 5 times (probably more) to address the COI issue and you have avoided it, so please respond here or on my talk page about it. CHRISSY MAD  ❯❯❯  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  14:11, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * But Rqiang84 had only mentioned it in his revision once. Can i trouble you to revert to Rqiang84's version and we can remove the offending parts from there and work from there — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iz55 (talk • contribs) 14:13, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * See my question above. This does not answer it. CHRISSY MAD  ❯❯❯  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  14:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * which are the portions of rqiang84's content that you feel are unsupported and untrue? I urge you to look through his content. Can you revert to rqiang84's content and delete accordingly the portions you do not agree with so that editors can see your specific comments for the specific portions? Thank you!Iz55 (talk) 14:33, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposal for addition of Professional Life details
Subject is an internet celebrity in Singapore, with newspaper articles referenced in the main article. She also has viral videos that have more than 2 million views, which is almost everyone in a small country like singapore haha. Since she also directs the videos she acts in, i wanted to share on her professional life as a filmmaker before being an actress. I hope to add this content to help improve her actress and film maker section by putting in the following:

Actress and Film maker
Lee was involved with film creation of two short films Graduation and Keep Mum. The first film Graduation won the Best Production Design at the Singapore Short Film Awards and *SCAPE's National Youth Film Awards in 2015, and was the Singapore finalist at Hong Kong International Mobile Film Awards. Her second film Keep Mum was nominee of Best Direction in the National Youth Film Awards 2015 and was featured at Cana Film Festival in 2016. Lee expressed that these short films as her way of commenting on social issues facing her generation

Lee was discovered by SGAG after they came across her blog, in which she illustrates stories from her daily life in an endearing humorous style, which they would later published one of her articles regarding the Carousell onto their social platforms. Upon their request, Lee joined SGAG in January 2016 and helped to establish its video team, where she is fully involved with the productions of the SGAG videos since then, in which she often appears under the personas as a news presenter "Suezanna Chole Tan" and more often as "Sue Ann" alongside with other actors.

Proposal for improvement of info box
This info box is pretty similar to the current info box, but a photo has been added, and some minor changes have been put in. This info box was primarily helped to be done up by another editor rqiang84

Iz55 (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Reply 11-MAY-2018

 * 1) This photograph is missing evidence of permission. It may have an author and a source, but there is no proof that the author agreed to license the file. Unless evidence of permission is shown, the file is scheduled to be deleted within seven days.
 * 2) The references suggested for use in this article do not work towards resolving any of the already-existing maintenance template issues. It would be better to address those deficiencies (such as notability, point of view-prose style, and reference quality) with the goal of eliminating them before adding newer material to the article. .   spintendo ⋅ ⋅ )  17:12, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Discussion on Article Notability
I would like to propose that subject is notable as it surpasses the guidelines on the following points: 1. Subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Just to name a few: She had been featured in a full length interview in Singapore's national newspaper the straits times, which is the only newspaper in singapore. That article is listed as on of the reference and for convenience it is referenced here too. She also has featured in a full length interview with Mediacorp's online website called Toggle, and appears in a full length feature by them. That interview is also referenced here. She also furthermore has appeared in other full length magazine features such as Time Out (magazine), which is the british magazine group and publishes 108 cities around the world. That article is here. She also appears in Cleo (magazine)'s magazine as a full length feature here

2. Subject also has attracted attention over a sufficiently significant period of time The above articles have been published over a period of time. the straits times - 27/10/17, Time Out (magazine) - 14/09/17, Mediacorp's toggle article - 02/10/17, Cleo (magazine) - 1/12/17

3. Subject is also an internet celebrity with weekly videos, some of which have more than 1.5 to 2.5 million views. For a small country like singapore, 2million viewers is almost every person under the age of 30. Some of her videos are referenced here

4. She is the main star of SGAG, which has more than 800k followers on Facebook, and 450k on instagram.

5. I have made multiple edits (in an effort to address template maintanence issues), and no new content was added. Please take some time to review my edit. Thank you! Iz55 (talk) 02:17, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Reply 11-MAY-2018
❌
 * The question is not over the subject's notability, but rather, whether the changes requested offer an improvement to the article. Requested changes to the article such as adding a picture which does not have the required licensing would not constitute as an improvement.
 * Other requested changes to the wording of the information were not grammatical, and would not improve the article:"Example No.#1 'Lee was discovered by SGAG after they came across her blog,[4] in which she illustrates stories from her daily life in an endearing humorous style,[5] which they would later published [sic] one of her articles regarding the Carousell onto their social platforms.' Example No.#2 'Lee joined SGAG in January 2016 and helped to establish its video team, where she is fully involved with the productions of the SGAG videos since then, [sic] in which she often appears under the personas as [sic] a news presenter..'"For those reasons the edit request is declined. .   spintendo ⋅ ⋅ )  04:56, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Removal of maintenance tags

 * Based on follow up instructions from other admins, i have made minor changes in grammar, punctuation, POV, reference quality etc, and applied those directly to the main body of the article (not on the talk page).
 * I have made sure i did not add any new content, but simply cleared up the grammar, reference quality etc, in an effort to help address the maintenance tags issues
 * Please do have a look through the main article body.
 * For convenience, i had also detailed out the changes as i went along in the article edit history so you can track what i had done.
 * Please guide me if my minor edits are sufficient.
 * If sufficient, i hope you can consider removing the maintenance tags
 * Thanks for your time Iz55 (talk) 09:14, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Reply 12-MAY-2018
The editor who placed the templates, in this case, should be consulted first about the recent changes you've made, in order to garner their opinion on the state of the article and whether or not they feel the tags can now be removed. .   spintendo ⋅ ⋅ )  12:56, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The same issues still exist. CHRISSY MAD  ❯❯❯  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  12:58, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Dear / user:spintendo, another editor from the teahouse has edited the article after i posted my request for help in the tea house. can i check if its ok now? :) thank you Iz55 (talk) 15:24, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to change the introduction to sound less promotional
I have received feedback from the teahouse that "grown to become asia's most recognisable characters" may sound like a press release. In an effort to address the maintanece tag issues, i propose to revise that sentence:

Annette Rochelle Lee (born 10 July 1992), is a Singaporean actress, singer-songwriter, scriptwriter, director and YouTube personality. She is best known for her work on the media platform SGAG, where she stars in comedic videos based on the personas of "Sue Ann" and "Suezanna Chole Tan". . Lee is also a singer-songwriter and she released her debut electro-folk EP in 2017.
 * I - remember to sign your Talk comments by typing four of ~. I am not a Teahouse admin, just a regular editor who dabbles in Teahouse topics. What I did to the article was remove content that in my opinion was not directly about Ms. Lee, or not relevant to her notability. In my opinion, again, there is enough independent content to support notability. A hard task for you now is to stop adding to the article. In time, other editors will add/subtract content, and at some point in time an editor will decide to remove some of those templates. David notMD (talk) 02:05, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks David notMD!Iz55 (talk) 02:08, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree with, that the subject's notability is established. Seeing the changes that David made, perhaps we could impose on one more time to have a look and see how the page looks and if the tags can be reconsidered. Thank you to everyone for their help on this, it's much appreciated. .   spintendo ⋅ ⋅ )  06:00, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Notability template removed
In light of and my opinions that the subject has met notability requirements, I've gone ahead and removed that template. I can't speak to the other remaining two, as the decision to place them is a bit more nuanced than the cut and dry requirements for notability, so IMO it would still be best to have the input of. .   spintendo ⋅ ⋅ )  05:24, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to remove remaining tags
Since the tags had been placed 3 months ago and also reviewed 2 months ago, many more people have since worked on the page and shared their input. Hence, I would like to propose that the remaining tags be removed.

Thanks! Iz55 (talk)

Reply 13-JUL-2018
Requesting input on this. My concerns are listed below:  spintendo   03:38, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) The fact that the COI editor is still editing the article, trying to remove maintenance messages, seems to suggest that the COI template still holds water.
 * 2) The fact that many of the references provided are written by individuals who are either close to the subject (Refs #2,3,4,8) or are provided indirectly by the subject (refs #1,5,6,10) would seem to suggest that the FanPOV template also holds water.
 * 3) Reading the article I see issues not covered by the tags, especially MOS:WTW, of which there are a handful in the article.