Talk:Ansar al-Islam in Kurdistan

Kurds
Ansar al Islam is listed in Kurd ss a Kurdish group? Are they?

Ansar al-Islam is a Kurdish islamic group ! see * Mullah Krekar Interview
 * Nowadays "Ansar al-Islam" refers to two different groups. The non-Kurdish one is the outfit in Iraq that formerly called themselves Ansar al-Sunnah. But that group is pretty well out of business, permanently. :) 209.121.88.198 (talk) 01:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Ansar al Islam is not a Kurdish organisation.. Kurds are not radical islamist. Selocan49 (talk) 03:02, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Erna Solberg
The Foreign Nationals Directorate of Norway and the Security Police of Norway utilized this page as one of their sources in a case when the norwegian authorities wanted to expel Ansar al-Islam leader Mullah Krekar from Norway... S


 * To clarify, Norwegian officials used this article as a source on behalf of Solberg (who is the Norwegian minister of the interior). When asked if she knew what Wikipedia is, she said no. See (in Norwegian). Haakon 11:24, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Right, thanks for filling in information, but it's not customary to edit other people's entries to discussion pages. Haakon 08:16, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

--- Turn towards those who are on Haq.(AlQuran)

if you are on right path pl answer these questions. 1-Why you were helping sadam when he was making worst attrocities on Shia & kurds. 2-What is meant by the ayat to the prophet(SAWAW)that convey this message & if not done the task of prophethood is not done & Allah save you from enemies.After this the Prophet Said mun kun to mulahu fahaza aliyun mulah. narrated bu many sunnah books.Hazrat Umer & all muslims congratulated Hazear Ali(A.S). 3-Why Hazrat Umar stoped the prophet in writting last testimony to save umah from going astray. 4-Why usama was selected in the presence of such big sahabas at the last moment of prophet (A.S) 5- Why the prophet ordered everyone to go for Jihad under usama except Hazrat Ali (A.S) 6-Why no one went for Jihad inspite of curse from the holy prophet (SAWAW) 7-Why Hazrat Abubakar was stoped by God orders from proclaiming even one ayat of Sura Barat and God's ordered that either the prophet (SAWAW) should go himself or send member of his family.(Ahlaybait). so the prophet sent Hazrat Ali (A.S) narrated by many Sunnah books. 8-According to Bukhari even Hazrat samia (PBUH) was more superior than Hazrat Umar. 9-If Hazrat Abubakar in the eyes of God is not entitle to got implement even one Ayat of AlQuran how he can be selected to enforce the whole Alquran & shariyat. 10- Why hazrat Ali refused to accept the khilafat after the death of hazrat umer. 11-Why the holy prophet took hazrat Ali hazrat Fatima hassan & hussain (A.S)for mubahila when others including his (SAWAW) own sons were present & were more superior to them according to your faith. 12-When the Alquran clearly said who are the rulers for muslims why you rejected God's orders. 13- hazrat Abubakar & hazrat Umer both left the holy prophet & ran from battle uhud but hazrat Ali (A.S.) Did not instead Hazrat Ali (A.S) prtected the prophet at every critical stage of life. 14-During jungay Khaibar Hazrat abubakar & hazrat Umar were given the leadership for conquerring khaibar but both ran.then the prophet said tomorrow I will give the flag to that person who loves God & God loves him too so next day he gave the flag to Hazrat Ali (A.S). This narration is in many sunnah books. This proves that God does not love those who were sent before.

--- Kurdish Islamic Organisations and Groups is not necessarily, there is already a category (Kurdish organization)

salafism
Does this lengthy piece really belong in this article? --Vindheim 07:53, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish views on Ansar al-Islam - Hussein link
Do we have any sources for the statement that local Kurds beleive that there is a link between Ansar al-Islam and Hussein's government? (Not saying that they don't, would just like to see verification...) crazyeddie 21:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Several people in Halabja were quoted as holding this view in a  recent Norwegian book ("Reiser i krigen skygge", Inger Østenstad and Hawdam Salih Jaf).  I am reluctant to take such rumours as fact, but it is true that commom enemies some times makes for strrnge bedfellows. Saddam and Ansar both hated the PUK.  And of course Ansar al-islam never fought the baathists.  --Vindheim 02:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I had exactly the same concern about this claim; I'm actually surprised there's not more discussion about it, as it goes to the heart of the question of a Al-Qaeda/Baathist link. I'm not claiming it's false, though if it's true, there surely must be an English source if there's a Norwegian one.  Also, "several people in Halabja were quoted as saying" is not identical to "local Kurds largely accept the link". --Saforrest 20:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, this claim needs a source, as it is an important and controversial one. Should it be removed or edited to reflect the uncertainty?

MeDoc 19:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion: The "link section" needs own article
hi this is just a formating suggestion and doesn't concern content, i think the first paragraph is well written and should be presented as summary of a seperate article as the section is getting too long. feel free to come up a better title for that article, the title name i wrote is just a suggestion.Burnt-sienna 15:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Alleged Links to Saddam
I think the section on alleged links should be organized; what we have is a random list of quotes from articles. This is good raw material, but an organized discussion of the alleged links and the evidence concerning Abu Wa'il, Mullah Krekar, etc. would be useful. I have added a few sentences about Powell's speech since it is cited in a manner that appears definitive even though it is well known that Powell changed his position dramatically on the issue. I also added the point that the consensus of experts and of the intelligence community is that A-I does not establish a Saddam al-Qaeda link. The way it was worded made it appear that such a link was still quite probable, whereas very few even believe that it was plausible. csloat 18:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, Commodore.
 * IMO the "connections" between Saddam and AaI are so sketchy that they don't belong in an article called Ansar al-Islam. We do know that a few AaI personnel got in and out of their compound in Kurdistan via the Baghdad airport, but it doesn't follow that Saddam's chaotic regime was involved. Saddam was irreligious, jealous of power and publicity, and afraid of everybody. LDH 01:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

This Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies Commentary reference needs an online reference. Also, I don't see why the speculations of a current Iraqi politician should be given the weight you are giving them in this section. Would the speculations of Dick Cheney qualify as a source for this? Reports by intelligence agencies are obviously more credible than speculation of a sitting politician who offers no proof for what he is saying. -- Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 02:56, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing "needs" an online reference. There are these buildings called libraries that still deal in paper magazines and books and such.  As it happens, there is an online reference, but it's currently offline.  But please do not remove citations for the sole reason that they don't have an online copy. csloat (talk) 05:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There is this thing called "the internet" and on this internet there is an online encyclopedia. If the online encyclopedia is going to start using references that one can only find in the thing called a "library," (and I HIGHLY doubt the "Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies" has their materials in any library, but whatever) then the online encyclopedia is going to become impossible to source. No one will be able to verify sources unless they travel to some library half-way around the world. That is why people tend to shy away from using non-internet sources for wikipedia articles. -- Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 06:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Including something as a source when the source himself claims that what he is saying is speculation which he can't prove doesn't remotely qualify as a source. -- Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 03:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I agree, but I have a feeling the quotation will get added back in, in which case the CISS material should be added back in as well. csloat (talk) 05:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Origins
The Ansar al-Islam did, however, never engage Baathist forces...

How do we know this to be true? According to a captured former Iraqi official, his government "blamed Ansar al-Islam for two bombings in Baghdad." (2006 Senate Intelligence Report, p. 93) This unnamed official described to the FBI how he traveled to Saddam's presidential palace to refute accusations made by then Secretary of State Colin Powell. smb1971 19:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * very interesting. in the light of this I'll remove the sentence you quote. --Vindheim 21:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

RE: Split
I think that the article could be split, however, we could keep some of the suggested split material and just put a main article link. Thoughts? Eric Wester 16:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Bias
This is an extremely one-sided entry that aims to bolster the almost universally discredited notions that a) Ansar al-Islam had something other than a tangential relationship to al Qaeda, and b) that AI had some sort of operational relationship with and the support of Sadaam. These are AM Radio talking points masquerading as an encyclopedia entry. It would be quite easy to come up with a list of quotes from newspaper articles making the case that these supposed Ansar al-Islam connections to Saddam were anything but the wishful thinking of Douglas J. Feith. This article needs a massive overhaul. It really belongs on "Conservapedia." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashe the Cyborg (talk • contribs)
 * Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).

Ok, I fixed it. A list of highly suspect allegations have no place in an encyclopedia article. Stick to facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashe the Cyborg (talk • contribs) 23:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Good work, I think. Someone will probably add some of that crap back but I agree the article is better without it.  I did move the paragraph down to the section called "Alleged links to Sadaam" which mentions Colin Powell's comments too. csloat (talk) 00:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Iranian links
I'm going through this line by line. This line: "Ansar al-Islam fortified a number of villages along the Iranian border, under the protection of Iranian artillery support." listed a CS Monitor article as a reference, yet no where in that article did it even mention Iranian artillery. In fact, most of the article details how hostile Iran has been to AI. So I don't know where that is coming from. Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 01:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Statement has been reinserted, but I shall find a better reference.--Vindheim (talk) 11:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Found a general reference to Iranian support in an ICG-report. --Vindheim (talk) 11:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why it is vital to assert that AI has "Iranian support." I have read that there may be independent groups and individuals in Iran that have provided AI with funds, but you could assert the same thing about groups and individuals in Europe. But you wouldn't say AI has "German support" because a group in Germany gave them funds. I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever indicating that the Iranian government is supporting them. In fact, most of what I've read has indicated that the government has been hostile to AI. Obviously, all of this is very murky and there are few hard facts on this subject. In light of that, I think the article should take a conservative approach and try to avoid speculation or lists of allegations. Thoughts? Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 14:59, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ther assertion is not that the Ansar al-islam has Iranian support, the  documented fact is that they had such support while holding their enclave on the Iranian border.  With a bit of research I am sure I wil find further documentation, also of the artillery support (reference  to which has now been removed).--Vindheim (talk) 15:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll wait and see what you find. My point, however, was that when you say "Iranian support" it implies the "official" support of the Iranian regime. It is more complicated than that, so that is misleading. Anyway, I'll wait for your documentation. Thanks. Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 15:15, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've fixed this and moved it out of the lede. If we get evidence of government support we can include that but for now I agree this is no more meaningful than saying they got "American support" because some Kurdish-Americans sent them cookies. csloat (talk) 17:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually what they received was not cookies but mortar shells, RPGs and other arms. A brief discussion of which Iranian factions sanctioned this support is found at . See pp 7-8 in the PDF report. --Vindheim (talk) 18:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

>>"It has however been established that the later leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi stayed in the Ansar al-Islam enclave in 2002/2003." The reference for this is a defunct blog. The "PWHCE" is not a credible source -- and it doesn't even exist anymore. I'm not necessarily disputing the line on al-Zarqawi, but this needs a credible source. -- Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 21:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

This line: "During its stay in the Biyara region the group would have needed logistical support from Iran, prompting allegations of support from "powerful factions in Iran."[2]" That sounds like an argument, not a fact. I'm trying to avoid an edit war here, so I'm airing my criticism of these before deletion. I think this needs to be either rephrased or eliminated. -- Ashe the Cyborg (talk) 21:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Please go ahead and rephrase the Iranian connection bit, in the meanwhile I'll find another source for the Zarqawi statement.--Vindheim (talk) 15:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * found a reference from the wWashington Post via Kurdmedia. --Vindheim (talk) 15:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Cleaned up
The page had been essentially untouched since 2008. Gone through and performed a clean up on the text, made it easier to understand, added infobox, added couple more recent events. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gazkthul (talk • contribs) 01:26, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Please read notice at top concerning sanctions and 1RR per 24 hours
Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 15:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Capitalization of Al in name
I started a discussion on how to format names with al-Qaeda in the title at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Terrorism. This group uses al in the title and could be considered part of the discussion. Capitalization of proper names should go with the most common use of name in reliable sources, not Wikipedians' preferences. ~Technophant (talk) 17:42, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Merger with IS (August 2014)!
This didn't happen. what happened is that 50 members (not leaders as written in the article) gave Bay'ah to IS. the rest of the group in Iraq and Syria is still active!3bdulelah (talk) 15:16, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

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Iraq
What was wrong with this: Seems like at least one of the sources is 100% solid and other two look OK. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:34, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

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