Talk:Antelope/Archive 1

Massive Reorganization
Hey guys I'm LUKE, I did a massive rewrite/reorganization. Please feel free to fix/update/tweak as needed. Hopefully all the Encarta material is now gone without a trace. I am still unsure about including the "hybrid antelope" section. Is it really necesary on such a general page? Also, removed Jared Diamond references. All Diamond's arguments came from Spinage, who was already cited on the topic here and is an expert on the topic. Please update/reorganize further as necesary. Bovidaeloony (talk) 10:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Possible infringement
Can anyone explain the remarkable similarity of this article to the Microsoft MSN Encarta article at http://encarta.msn.com/text_761573948__1/Antelope.html??? — DIV 2006-11-01


 * That was an unbelievable infringement that lasted almost a whole YEAR (January 14 - January 1)! I've removed all of it. Thanx for the notificationia copypaste. 68.39.174.238 21:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * How about someone rewriting the gist of the old text (in a way that doesn't plagarize Encarta)?--GRM 21:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Antelopinae don't always mean Antelope
If I am right, the "Antelope" doesn't include only "Antilopinae". The "tragelaphus" (kudu) is not an Antilopinae but actually is an Antelope!!! Someone should correct this mistake!

--Suhardian 20:53, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Why is the taxbox gazelle?
antolpe lives in africa and in the easter southern coast. The taxbox has the title gazelle and a picture of a gazelle. This article is about antelopes not gazelles!

Ive changed the taxbox because is was wrong.

Formulation nits
The remark about species purity (and nature being far more flexible) and 'Believe it or not, there is no such thing as ...' are style bugs and unbecoming of an encyclopedia article.

cleanup-english
The article requires a lot of work to get it to a decent standard. Archfalhwyl 15:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Plural
Isn't the plural of antelope antelope?
 * It could be both antelope and antelopes. Any decent dictionary will tell us that. 153.2.247.33 (talk) 08:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've heard it both ways, but most common usage seems to be (based on conversation with biologists, not any actual convention) "antelope" is preferentially used over "antelopes" unless specifically reffering multiple kinds of antelope. "Antelope" is used when referring to all antelope, as a group. Of course this is entirely based on my experience, I don't believe there is a hard and fast rule. (If there is, someone please inform me!) Bovidaeloony (talk) 02:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There isn't. Per OED, antelope used to be a countable noun ("2 antelopes") but it's now—alternatively—an uncountable one ("2 antelope" = 2 beasts of the same species; "2 antelopes" = 2 species of antelope) similar to deer. — Llywelyn II   17:30, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Bull and cow or buck and doe
What are the correct terms for antelopes?? Internet sites appear to disagree. Georgia guy 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It depends on the species. Cow-like (large) antelope use cow/calf, sheep-like (small antelope) use ewe/lamb. I've seen doe/fawn used by hunters and other individuals who are more familiar with deer than antelope. Bovidaeloony (talk) 02:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Vagina
Is this the correct term for this section, or is this some sort of wiki-vandalism? I have not found a definition of this word that means anything other than female genitalia. 71.140.144.29 00:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC) Unregistered User JGH

Hybrid Species Section
Is there a reason this section is included? It seems to be highly specific and somewhat esoteric for an otherwise general page. The list seems to be more or less directly from "Exotics in the Wild", which is cited. Perhaps it would be better suited as a paragraph under "species" or "classification" that species readily hybridize in captivity and include a few of the most common examples? Bovidaeloony (talk) 21:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and removed the list, but left overview paragraphs. I can't point to a specific source, but it feels very similair to something I've read (the first three examples especially) which makes me uneasy. If anyone feels it should be restored, please feel free to do so. Bovidaeloony (talk) 01:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Behaviour
I've heard that antelopes will shake violently after being chased by a lion, which helps them manage potential traumas. It's a stress-response. Is this true? Anyone have a link? --npr

Species
We have plenty of native antelope in North America -why don't they get mentioned? (where the deer and the antelope play, etc.) And do all antelope have spiral horns? --rmhermen
 * The total number of animals might be plenty, but there's only one species (the pronghorn), and as the article states, it's not actually an antelope. WorldAsWill (talk) 10:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * How closely related are these antelopes? Oryx are in the subfamily Hippotraginae, Duikers in Cephalophinae, and so on. In particular, Kudu are more closely related to cows than other antelope. With that in mind I will note that the group is a human construct as opposed to a taxonomical one. Furius
 * That doesn't make sense. All taxonomies are human constructs. What you're after is most likely "a paraphyletic group as opposed to a monophyletic one". WorldAsWill (talk) 10:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not all antelope have spiral horns. The American pronghorn is not a true antelope but usually considered the sole living member of the family Antilocapridae (though some have classed it in the Bovidae). 153.2.247.33 (talk) 08:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Speed
By what criterion is the antelope fastest? The cheetah is slower, and it tires faster. -phma
 * This article lists the antelope as the fastest mammal, the cheetah article says cheetah is the fastest. Source for either?????
 * I concur, cheetah says fastest animal? What gives, needs immediate attention. 24.124.45.139 (talk) 03:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)Spacebeez
 * The page currently says "Antelope are the second fastest land mammal in the world". The provided reference clearly refers to the pronghorn antelope, which the article later makes clear is not considered an antelope, for the purposes of this article. Therefore, the "fastest land mammal" piece should just be removed. WorldAsWill (talk) 09:54, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree. I think it needs to be put back - but if no one has time to find a proper ref, it should be CNed. The reason being it is commonly misunderstood to be the fastest, and in order to prevent further good faith vandalism, we should have a proper citaiton. Luminifer (talk) 05:36, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you misunderstood me, or of you're just being brief. When it comes to Really Fast Land Mammals, there's the cheetah, which is really the fastest, and the pronghorn antelope, which is sometimes claimed to be the second fastest (and maybe some even claim it's the fastest). However, neither of those two is an antelope, for the purposes of this article. Therefore, if we should have anything at all in this article, it should just refer to the pronghorn article. WorldAsWill (talk) 07:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I also saw reports with Grant's gazelles, Springboks, Thomson's gazelles, Blackbucks, Saiga Antelopes and Dorcas gazelles, running extremely fast over short periods.


 * Not to confuse the average speed and the top speed during a sprint, because both are to execute during a sprint and must be taken into account. For example we say ouvent that the Cheetah is faster of the gazelle, but the what? A gazelle in good phisique condition can easily escape a cheetah.


 * Record, in the sprint the average speed of a cheetah is 94 km/h (58 mph) on 500 meters a distance, with the peak a 120 km/h (75 mph) a 100 meters, thus no more than the gazelles then thank you for not mixing everything, on the internet the references mix all, because it is gods which makes them and he even had forgotten this detail.


 * Maximum speed:


 * Category, Antelopes Extremely Speed:
 * 130 km/h : 80 mph - Pronghorns (103 km/h - 63 mph on average 2000 m, with a peak 130 km/h on 400 meters)
 * 125 km/h : 77,5 mph - Grant's Gazelles (98 km/h - 60 mph on average 2000 meters, with a peak 125 km/h - 77,5 mph on 400 meters)
 * 120 km/h : 75 mph - Soemmerring's Gazelles (93 km/h - 58 mph on average 2000 meters, with a peak 120 km/h - 75 mph on 400 meters)
 * 115 km/h : 71 mph - Springboks Gazelles (88 km/h - 55 mph on average 2000 meters "Smithers 1983", with a peak 115 on 400 meters)
 * 110 km/h : 69 mph - Blackbucks & Thomson's Gazelle (83 km/h - 52 mph on average 2000 meters "Nowak 1999", with a peak 110 km/h on 400 meters)
 * 105 km/h : 65 mph - Saiga Antelopes (78 km/h - 48 mph on average 2000 meters, with a peak 105 km/h)
 * 105 km/h : 65 mph - Topis (Damaliscus) (78 km/h - 48 mph on average 2000 meters, with a peak 105 km/h on 400 meters)
 * 105 km/h : 65 mph - Grey Rheboks (78 km/h - 48 mph on averge 2000 meters, with a peak 105 km/h)
 * 100 km/h : 62 mph - Rhim Gazelles (73 km/h - 45 mph on average 1500 meters, with a peak 100 km/h on 300 meters)
 * 95 km/h : 59 mph - Dorcas Gazelles (68 km/h - 42 mph on average 1500 meters, with a peak 95 km/h on 300 meters)
 * 95 km/h : 59 mph - Blesboks (Damaliscus) (68 km/h - 42 mph on average, with a peak 95 km/h)
 * 90 km/h : 56 mph - Wildebeests (63 km/h - 39 mph on average 1500 meters, with a peak 90 km/h on 300 meters)
 * 90 km/h : 56 mph - Oryxs (63 km/h / 39 mph on average, with a peak 90 km/h / 56 mph)
 * 85 km/h : 52 mph - Sable Antelopes (58 km/h / 36 mph on average, with a peak 85 km/h /52 mph)
 * 70 km/h : 43 mph - Dik-dik (43 km/h / 27 mph on average, with a peak 70 km/h / 43 mph) (very small antelope but extremely fast)


 * Antelopes Fast Run :
 * 85 km/h : 52 mph - Impalas (58 km/h / 36 mph on average 1300 meters, with a peak 85 km/h on 300 meters)
 * 75 km/h : 46 mph - Bushbucks (48 km/h / 30 mph on average 1000 meters, with a peak 75 km/h / 46 mph on 200 meters)
 * 75 km/h : 46 mph - Kobs  (48 km/h / 30 mph on average, with a peak 75 km/h)
 * 75 km/h : 46 mph - Nilgai (48 km/h /29 mph on average, with a peak 75 km/h)
 * 75 km/h : 46 mph - Nyalas & Greater Kudus (48 km/h / 29 mph on average, with a peak 75 km/h).
 * 70 km/h : 43 mph - Oribis (43 km/h / 27 mph on average, with a peak 70 km/h)


 * It is rather complex as work, because the sizes and the weights of antelopes must be taken into account quite as the speed of the sort and also the phisique condition of its animals. With all his elements we know their speeds realities without going to verify, even if always know better. Finally as we live in Satan's world in this period, it is the cheetah which in the best reputation, seen that it is a predator.--Angel310 (talk) 11:21, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Hoof Structure
Someone is looking for information on the following point: what does the skeleton of an antelope look like? Specifically, what is the structure of its hooves? "Is the nail of a hoof lobe just a thin wall? Could you nail a piece of rubber or something to it?" The issue is something about hypothetical "horseshoes" for antelopes. --Kris Schnee 09:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Species subsection
It seems a bit "strong" to have this whole section deleted. I am not even sure that the perpetrator is not some sort of vandal, but I'd rather know the logic behind the cut before being judgmental! Can the originator advise?

Is there any sort of reason behind the species list? It appears to be a list of randomly selected antelope (some types, some species) without any appearant organization. I think a more representitive list may be preferable to outright removal. Bovidaeloony (talk) 21:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and organized by subfamily. Bovidaeloony (talk) 01:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Good job, Bovidaeloony. However, I think the placement up top makes the article unbalanced. Might be better to have a template to cross-reference all spieces at the bottom of the article. Note emphasis on all, I think the current incomplete list inadequate myself. What thinks you?—GRM (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. I moved the complete species list to the bottom and filled in the rest of the species, though I may have missed a handful (so many gazelles and duikers!). Maybe the list would be better organized by genus within subfamily? I think it is for the most part, but could use a going-over to make sure, and labelling by genera wouldn't hurt the organization. Bovidaeloony (talk) 20:47, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Serious rewrite and upgrade required
Now that the Encarta stuff has been removed, is anyone going to volunteer to rewrite this important (candidate CD) article? Unfortunately, I do not have all my references to hand..., but maybe I could make a start sometime...—GRM 18:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Image: Black Lechwe
Does anyone have a photo of Black Lechwe that could be used on the Lechwe page? —GRM 20:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey All, just a peculiarity - this article was quoted in a very interesting place, here. Volland 22:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Are blue wilderbeest antelopes?
it says on this page that antelope is a generic term for bovidae who arn't goats, sheep or cattle, but arn't wilderbeest cattle?

No, wildebeest or gnus are antelopes related to the impala and the hartebeest. 153.2.247.33 (talk) 08:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Citation Tags
Whoever marked this page as needing citation and cleanup, please indicate where, specifically the citations are needed. Some citations are given, so it is not clear which areas in particular need references.--AaronCarson (talk) 20:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I added most of the current citations early this year. What's the protocol for removing the "citations needed" flag on an aticle? Bovidaeloony (talk) 20:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Monophyletic group
"The term does not refer to a monophyletic group, as not all members of Bovidae are considered antelope." This seems to be a non sequitur, since "monophyletic group" is not defined as "subset that contains all the members of the containing set". If it's not a monophyletic group, then it's because their most recent common parent (whether this is the same animal that is the most recent common parent of all the Bovidae, or a descendant of that animal) also has descendants that aren't classified as antelopes. —Largo Plazo (talk) 12:23, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I removed that statement and reworded, it wasn't particularly relevant.Bovidaeloony (talk) 20:27, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Intro is confusing
The introduction appears to be inconsistent.
 * Antelope is a term referring to many even-toed ungulate species found all over the world in places such as Africa, Asia, and North America. The term refers to a ‘miscellaneous’ group within the family encompassing the old-world species which are not cattle, sheep, buffalo, bison, or goats. In some countries they are referred to as a "Gemma". A group of antelope is called a herd.[1] The Pronghorn of North America, though sometimes known colloquially as Pronghorn Antelope, is not a member of the family Bovidae, but the family Antilocapridae and not a true antelope. No antelope species are native to the Americas. True antelope have horns which are unbranched and never shed. Pronghorns have branching horns, of which they shed the outer horny sheaths annually.

So the Antelope refers to some even-toed ungulate species found in North America, among other place, but no antelope species are native to the Americas, so presumably the antelope referred to in the first sentence are introduced. The sentence about the pronghorn seems to imply that all antelope are in Bovidae, and the term "true antelope" is introduced. I think the content of the introduction needs to be revised considerably to make it match the content of the article.Ordinary Person (talk) 11:23, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the phrase (first paragraph, second sentence) was probably meant to read, "... a 'miscellaneous' group within the family BOVIDAE, encompassing ..." That makes sense.  Whether it's correct of not, I couldn't be sure, so I'd rather not change it. 173.79.191.234 (talk) 02:05, 19 November 2011 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza

This page needs an infobox.
That's pretty much it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.64.108 (talk) 18:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Taxonomy Classification is missing
This is a rather important chunk of information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.116.135 (talk) 09:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Sources for article expansion
The Online Etymology Dictionary is not actually a since Doug Harper is rather a hack, using unreliable sources of his own and treating conjectures as statements of fact. The actual OED entries are here and here. I'm sure we want up-to-date info for our science articles, but for overviews and historical understanding and treatment, see:



— Llywelyn II   17:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

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Missing sentence?
There seems to be some text missing at the beginning of Morphology--does anyone remember what it said? I may stick a placeholder sentence there. Nareek (talk) 22:57, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

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