Talk:Anterograde amnesia

Why I edited out a supposed flaw in Memento
A previous writer suggested that the main character in Memento would not have been able to learn the phrase "anterograde amnesia" if he himself had it. However, as described in Science 277: 376-380, 1997, patients have been observed who have reasonable learning and memory skills for new words and facts of history despite a profound loss of new "episodic" memories, i.e. memory of the events of their day. I inserted a short description of types of memories (e.g., episodic, semantic, skills, etc.) and the fact that they can be separately affected by anterograde amnesia.--Jeffrey Ram, Prof. of Physiology, Wayne State University

A question
I was with a person coming out of a procedure where fentanyl was used. She was awake for the procedure, but remembered none of it. (It was an esophageogastroduodenoscopy, if I recall correctly.) When they wheeled her out, I was there when she woke up. She doesn't like needles; she was upset when they took her IV out. She passed out for a few seconds, then expressed surprise that her IV was out.

Is this anterograde amnesia? Can it be induced by drugs like this? As in, the drug suppressed the formation of new memories? Is it called the same thing? grendel|khan 04:22, 2004 Sep 15 (UTC)


 * That's a good question (is it called the same thing?). It definitely can occur, and I'll give a personal experience. I had an ERCP done (look it up on Wiki) last year and was given an anesthetic (or anesthetics) by injection. The one I remember seeing being injected was white and creamy in appearance. I remember a wonderful head rush and making a comment about wanting a few bottles to take home for later. I then "woke up" in recovery. I asked how long I had been asleep. Their answer was "not at all". After asking some more questions I learned that if I was asleep, they would not be able to perform an ERCP since they have to give the patient directions (turn on your side... swallow hard...). They said that the anesthetic sometimes blocks short term memory retention, so the patient simply doesn't remember anything while under the influence. They even told me of cases where someone will ask the same series of questions over and over again while recovering. Each question "reminds" them to ask the next, but they don't remember the answer for more than a few seconds. The nurses are used to it and simply answer the questions over and over. Fracture98 08:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, maybe it's just me, but when I read "A first-hand account of a sufferer of anterograde amnesia is written by Oliver Sacks", I understood that Sacks suffers from anterograde amnesia -- but actually, he's a doctor who writes about patients. Did that throw off anybody else? Could it be rephrased to eliminate ambiguity?

Fictional citations
I re-added the Dory citation after Diceman removed it because it does belong here. But after rereading the text I wrote in fleshing out the entries, I realize that its lack of any part of the term "anterograde amnesia" may have been misconstrued as implying that Dory's condition was different. This was not my intent. I was merely trying to avoid distracting repetition of the phrase "anterograde amnesia" by using slightly different wording for each citation. (This was more important when the text was a paragraph, less so now that it's a list.) The start of the paragraph (now the heading of the list) makes it plain that these are supposedly instances of anterograde amnesia. I apologize if my zeal for interesting prose made this unclear. &#9786; &mdash; Jeff Q 17:49, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Some more information
I recall seeing a famous case on a BBC TV show about a patient named Henri who was a famous case aged about 50 in the late eighties.

If any of you can give some more "human cases" examples in the article, this is welcomed.

The commonest form of amnesia
I wanted this to be screened by the staff, so I didn't write it right on the page.

Anterograde amnesia is by far the most prevalent of the different amnesias. Traditionally, it is "common knowledge" that those who have a long history of excessive drinking are unable to remember last night's events, or some of them. An experienced observer, however, (such as a bar tender, the family of an alcoholic, etc.) can notice the onset of Anterograde Amnesia, already during the evening.

What is less commonly known is, that this amnesia is not caused by "the sleep after". Rather, it is caused by experiences not properly being stored during the events. In other words, not remembering the day after, is commonly interpreted as "just" amnesia (and downplayed by everybody), while it should be understood as the onset of Anterograde Amnesia already during the evening, the result of which, obviously, is that one can't remember things tomorrow either.

Typical telltale signs are: repeating the same joke to the same audience, repeating some behavior the person has already been told not to do, looking _genuinely_ surprised at an irritated tone of voice (because somebody had to repeat the reprimand), straying from the company as soon as one loses immediate eyesight of them, forgetting to come back to the table when at the bar buying beer, etc.

One can easily test this condition by telling the person an unforgettable and juicy "secret", and telling it again after (not less than) 15 minutes. If the drunk person reacts as this was the first time they heard it, then the diagnosis is unavoidable.

After understanding the above, it takes surprisingly little practicing to learn to spot this state of the mind. Of course, it helps practicing if one knows the person, and can often ask them exactly where they lost their memory of the previous night.

The severity of both anterograde (and by result, retrograde) amnesia varies during a drinking night, and there is no clear-cut on/off border between them. In general, the more such a person has drunk, the more "shocking" an event has to be, before it can be remembered. Ultimately, when the person is drunk enough, no event at all is strong enough to remain in memory. Usually the factual contents of discussions are the first to disappear. Later the tone of these discussions, the places visited, the people seen, and last, everything, is lost.

Many of the persons suffering from this do not even notice the condition. Even more usual is to be in a state of denial: "aw, who wants to remember everything?"

A scientifically interesting notion is, that such persons do often develop smooth ways of "getting away with it". To the outside observer, it looks like they have learnt a set of methods to automatically apply in the various awkward situations that repeatedly arise. (Everything from "Gee, thanks!", "Gotcha!", "Heh, just kidding.", "Whaddayaknow!", "Na, I was just testing how observant you were!", "Wow, you are sharp!", to more elaborate setups.

Such adaptation of behavior is indicative of a learning process taking place. Since the events of the night are not accessible a posteriori, the adaptation (thus, the learning process) has to take place during the actual events, and hence, while intoxicated beyond remembrance.

A proper study of this might result in the findings that, there can be learning without a conscious access to the relevant memories. And if the study shows that this is not the case, then we really are approaching some truly interesting new knowledge. (I.e., questions about, does learning happen instantaneously (in which case the theory about dreams as a vehicle of learning starts to sound hollow), or during the next night, does the data for learning really have to be also available by conscious retrieval, is learning totally independent of the conscious level of mind, etc.)

''If sources have to be attached before this can be inserted on the actual page, I think the FDA, the AA, or others will gladly provide facts and research citations. (georg@ .iki.fi -- while you (the editors) may contact me for additional comments,) please don't advertise my name, thank you.''


 * I think you're gonna have to work on your style, and the sources are very important. You are making a number of observations that sound speculative without a citation. The FDA and AA are not the ones to provide sources - ordinary editors are. JFW | T@lk  23:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The paragraph in bold below was in the article, but since it seems only to describe retrograde amnesia, I wonder why it's in an article on anterograde amnesia. The information in this talking point, though, makes its inclusion--or certainly something about alcohol use on its own--much more understandable. Nevertheless, the paragraph seems awfully confusing (and probably inaccurate) as it stands, so I'm going to take it out and put it here so it can be debated, checked on, or completed by folks with more expertise. (To my mind, it's better to have a small amount of information that's completely accurate rather than a large amount of which parts seem obviously questionable.)


 * Large alcohol intake alone (see binge drinking) can cause a kind of retrograde amnesia commonly referred to as en bloc blackouts. This is likely caused by alcohol's effect on GABA receptors, which play a role in memory formation in the hippocampus. Because of the other symptoms of intoxication, it is usually not evident to observers when an intoxicated person is suffering from amnesia, and they themselves will only become aware of it later if they identify a period of missing time. 


 * Thanks for your feedback! Scrawlspacer 19:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Awkward Wording?
I came across this string of words and realized that it was redundant and utilize was spelled incorrectly, if anyone concurs I will correct it. "This is utilized in the use of..." Utilized MEANS use, so what it is saying is 'This is used in the use of'.

Contradiction?
First sentence under Symptoms: "Those who suffer from theoretically pure anterograde amnesia will still be able to remember memories laid down before the onset of anterograde amnesia..."

From the part about "Mememto": "Unlike true anterograde amnesiacs, Leonard could remember what his life was like before the head injury that triggered his amnesia."

Hm. 68.158.121.107 20:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I've edited as follows:
 * "The 2000 neo-noir/psychological thriller film Memento, starring Guy Pearce, Carrie-Anne Moss, and Joe Pantoliano, featured Leonard (played by Pearce), a semi-anterograde amnesiac. The film is cut as a series of moments playing backwards, providing the viewer with a kind of 'simulation' as to what anterograde amnesia might be like. Unlike true anterograde amnesiacs, Leonard could remember what his life was like before the head injury that triggered his amnesia. He could also recall the fact that he has anterograde amnesia, as he often begins his conversations with 'I have this condition.'"


 * Replaced with:


 * "The 2000 neo-noir/psychological thriller film Memento, starring Guy Pearce, Carrie-Anne Moss, and Joe Pantoliano, featured Leonard (played by Pearce), a anterograde amnesiac. The film is cut as a series of moments playing backwards, providing the viewer with a kind of 'simulation' as to what anterograde amnesia might be like. Leonard was, as described in the first paragraph under symptoms, a pure anterograde amnesiac.  Luckily however, he was able to learn about his condition before his onset, which is rather fortunate."

The memo of the brain has to function. With the less fortunate if you know what I mean.

How many?
If a knowledgeable editor could please add it, the article should cite how many people have anterograde amnesia (worldwide if stats are available). Is this a condition of 400 people, or 40,000? Tempshill (talk) 05:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction
The 'famous cases' section of this article says, "As a result, H.M. had bilateral damage to both the hippocampal formation and the perirhinal cortex. H.M. had normal intelligence, perceptual ability, and a decent vocabulary, but he could not remember any new words or learn new tasks."

But the main article detailing H.M.'s case, here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_(patient)#History - says, "However, his ability to form long-term procedural memories was still intact; thus he could, as an example, learn new motor skills, despite not being able to remember learning them." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.159.129.44 (talk) 23:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Impact of recent student edits
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Brain diagram needed
It would be helpful to illustrate the physical features mentioned, for those of us not familiar with anatomical terminology. -- Beland (talk) 05:34, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I have added a link to a picture that illustrates the areas mentioned. If this is not sufficient, then please add the Anatomical diagram requested tag back in. Egmason (talk) 02:28, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Fanfiction cited in Fictional Cases section
I would respectfully like to request that Do Kyungsoo in the fanfiction "Anterograde Tomorrow", in the Fictional Cases section be removed and not reinserted. I was reading this article today and upon reading the history page have noticed it being repeatedly edited in and back out since September 13, 2012. While I have nothing against fanfiction, I feel that including a mention of this as an example of anterograde amnesia in the article is giving it undue weight as to its importance and has possibly been included due to a conflict of interest. I have no opinion as to the other current list entries in the section as I am not familiar with them except that Zachary Levi played Gus in Remember Sunday needs to be reworded to be consistent with the other list items. Previously, a larger section existed under Fictional Cases and the entire section was removed at some point, but is being resubmitted by various editors. I am not sure if there is a better way to handle this portion of the article as it seems to undergo modification quite regularly. I am open to thoughts.

Hespers (talk) 23:42, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

medical use of Anterograde amnesia
The article currently calls Anterograde amnesia an "ailment" and a "disorder". Yet drugs are widely used during medical procedures (colonoscopies etc) that are known to induce short-term Anterograde amnesia; this is not a mere side-effect, but apparently considered at least somewhat desirable, or even the main desired effect, by doctors. It is quite convenient for doctors, for patients to have little memory of what they experienced during medical procedures. Some patients may be grateful for this, some may not -- but they are seldom offered meaningful choices. The article should address the intentional use of drugs by doctors to induce Anterograde amnesia -- and whether it is indeed always as short-term as intended.-71.174.175.150 (talk) 19:25, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

amnesic automatism?
Amnesic automatism redirects here but no definition of such is given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.71.46.143 (talk) 12:45, 28 September 2015 (UTC)