Talk:Anthony Bourdain/Archive 1

Brasserie, not a Bistro
Les Halles is a classic French Brasserie, not a Bistro. This should be changed in the text.

"The term brasserie comes from brasseur, or brewer. Originally, these were France ’s answer to the British pub, serving up a similar fare of cheeses, stews, boiled items, cabbage, etc and specifically catering to the working man. Naturally, the rest of France loved the idea, but was appalled at the idea of quaffing a vintage Neuf-du-Pape with a side of sauerkraut, so the food became a little more chi-chi as a result.


 * um... ok brasserie not bistro, but also chateauneuf not chateau "neuf-du-pape" which makes no sense 68.175.101.2 (talk) 23:18, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

The term bistro (according to urban myth) came about when the Russians swarmed Paris after the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. Smart (and hungry) Slavs that they were, they wisely decided to stay for a bite, and “bystro, bystro” (meaning quickly) was on everyone’s lips. The name came to mean that cheerful stop where gourmet fast food could be served and eaten, while still enjoying a bottle of the owner’s great-uncle’s special two-hundred-year-old Chablis." From http://www.kitsilanoview.ca/index.php?id=20,0,0,1,0,0

BIRTHPLACE!!!!
i am watching the episode of no reservations where he is in new jersey and it clearly states that he was born in jersey, not new york... needs to be changed


 * Watch carefully. He notes that he was born in New York, but raised in New Jersey.  -- Kingfox 01:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Bourdain in Beirut
I don't know whether this is really relevant enough to add to the article or not but apparently Bourdain was filming a new episode of No Reservations in Beirut when the conflict over there started. As of today the crew is still there, but safe, and looking to evacuate. --70.179.119.138 04:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's relevant. It's definitely significant. Zenpickle 01:51, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright I'll add a little something though I'm fairly new at this so I welcome anyone to fix it up or add links as deemed necessary. Also I am not sure how to add citations on here but if anyone feels a source is necessary it can be found on the No Reservations message board at the Travel Channel website. I can link directly on here if its needed. --70.179.119.138 01:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I recommend sourcing this section of the article, particularly considering the bit about "expressing regret at the situation the Lebanese people were in ...". A howto for footnoting / sourcing Wikipedia articles can be found here. -- Docether 14:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

As I read this section, I got to the end and saw the reference to 'Mister Wolfe'. I made me chuckle but it also made me think that if you are not a Quentin Tarantino fan or didn't see pulp fiction you might not know who Mister Wolfe is. Maybe a parenthetical explanation would help this.--71.138.18.64 (talk) 19:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Abba? / drugs
Again, hate to make any changes to non-vandalism unless others agree, but I'm not really sure if the part about him disliking Abba is worth putting in here, especially since it has its own little paragraph. Also not sure it really needs a complete run down of every drug hes used. --70.179.119.138 22:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, "Kitchen Confidential" was fairly in-depth about the prevalence of drug use and abouse in the culinary industry, and Bourdain's been pretty unflinching about his own experiences with hard drugs. However, you have a good point -- perhaps we can clean this up by referring to "hard and soft drugs" rather than the laundry-list. ;) -- Docether 13:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Re: Drug list: Don't know if this helped, but I looked up that passage in KC and qualified it in the article with year and location, so that should at least ameliorate some of the impression that he still does that stuff. It's a funny passage, though, so I think it's OK to stay in. Softlavender (talk) 00:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm of the belief that the article focuses too strongly on his alleged drug use. Perhaps no surprise as this is Wikipedia.  I'd argue that this is not at all notable as it is so common this field.  I'm more surprised there is no listing of his restaurant experience.68.46.183.96 (talk) 01:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What is notable is not him taking drugs but talking about it on his programme. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There is a listing of his restaurant experience. If you'd like to expand it, feel free. Softlavender (talk) 01:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Just throwing it out there that I came to this page to find information about his past drug use. It was quite informative.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.49.62.74 (talk) 23:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

His WHAT Has Appeared WHERE???
I am trying to translate this article into French, but I don't know what to make of one little part.

The second paragraph of this article includes this sentence: "His work has appeared in the New York Times, The Times, the Observer, Scotland on Sunday, the Face, Limb by Limb, Black Book, and the Independent, and he is a contributing authority for Food Arts magazine."

1. What does his "work" mean? His columns? His novels? His workS?

2. Has anybody checked the pages to which some of the words (e.g. Face, Black Book) link to? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think "the Face" actually refers to the front of the head, nor can I see why Bourdain would ever publish anything in a book documenting anti-Jewish crimes (the Black Book). I am planning to get rid of such links (there are no Wikipedia articles to journals/periodicals of those names). Does anyone object to this, and if so, why?

3. Is there any source for the above-mentioned information? (I haven't checked the external links yet.)

--Kuaichik 22:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * His "work" means his writing. This is a pretty standard usage in English and I don't think it needs to be changed.  (I'm not sure if you were suggesting that or just asking for clarification.)  You are clearly right about the Face and Black Book links, but these are also the names of real publications.  Their websites are facemag.com (which appears to be down at the moment) and blackbookmag.com.  The links definitely need to go since there are no wikipedia articles for these magazines.  Christopher M 15:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed those links. Christopher M 20:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Christopher M! I wasn't sure whether "work" needed to be changed or not. Mainly, I was asking for clarification, because I wasn't sure how to translate "work" into French. (Somehow the words "Son travail a apparu..." seem like an odd translation of "His work has appeared..."!). I think I'll translate it as "ses oeuvres" (his workS), because it seems to convey the idea.

Now, if someone (maybe you?) could point me to the evidence supporting the previously mentioned quote, that would be really nice :) --Kuaichik 01:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's definitely "work" in the sense of "oeuvre" as opposed to "travail," but I guess it's just a usage difference between languages that requires it to be plural in this context in French. Anyway, as for the evidence, it's mentioned in what appears to be his standard blurb bio, which appears on a bunch of different (Googlable) sites, but for example here. More authoritatively, the copyright page of his book The Nasty Bits (a collection of essays, which I happen to own) says that "Most of these essays originally appeared...in" a list of publications that includes BlackBook and Face.  (I'm too new to Wikipedia-editing to know what, if anything, should be changed in terms of citations, but there are the facts -- have at it!) Christopher M 21:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see...thank you very much once again! I'm fairly new here myself, but I don't think anything should be changed in terms of citations. The Nasty Bits is already listed as further reading...Anyway, I'll look into adding a sentence into the French article (which I created and edited singlehandedly :-P). --Kuaichik 23:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I've implemented your changes to the French article now! (Your French, as I noted on that page, is pretty good!). --Kuaichik 04:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm a little late, but I disagree with Christopher M about "work". The usage may be standard but in this context is needlessly confusing and should be qualified.  Bourdain's "work" could be either his literary work (as we are supposing is the meaning here) or his culinary work (the dishes he prepares, the recipes he creates).  The sentence should read, "His literary work has appeared in..."  To assume that the reader understands this when the bulk of the article is about Bourdain's culinary career is absurd and incorrect. 12.22.250.4 20:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Executive or not?
What's the deal with Tony's current status?

The intro lists him as 'former executive chef of Brasserie Les Halles' while the Background says 'He is currently the executive chef at Brasserie Les Halles'

Should that first one really be 'former'? --Worm 13:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

His website (the link is on the bottom of the Wiki article) reads: "He is currently the executive chef at Brasserie Les Halles and lives in Manhattan." ~ AV

Yeah, but he is not anymore the Ex. Chef. I ate there last year, he stops by now and again, they sell his books, but he doesn't spend time in the kitchen. BTW...Les Halles is a great place for breakfast...they make everything fresh, have wireless internet (really) and coffee from French style personal push-through coffee pots. He spends 10 months a year traveling doing his show, writing, etc.

69.181.173.36 02:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)David Walters


 * He is the Corporate Executive Chef of Les Halles. Les Halles is a chain of French brasserie restaurants, it is not ONE restaurant, as such he is the Corporate Executive Chef, which means he has say over all of the restaurants, not just one.  Much in the same vein as someone like Bobby Flay, Emeril, Todd English, Charlie Palmer all have multiple restaurants, but each location has its own Executive Chef and they are the Executive Chef's of their companies.  These people just as Anthony Bourdain do not sit in the kitchen each day as they must manage not only their restaurants, but publishing, travel for tv shows and other purposes to their careers.--Christopher Tanner, CCC 03:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW he is no longer the Corporate Executive Chef of Les Halles. Carlos Llaguno is listed as such on the web site. This being said should we remove Les Halles as his 'current restaurant' since apparently his only current role there is for them to sell his books? harlock_jds (talk) 17:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No, because he's currently Chef-at-Large of Les Halles, and that is accurately sourced information. Softlavender (talk) 01:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * doesn't Chef-at-Large mean that he's not tied to a restaurant? What does "Chef-at-Large of Les Halles" actually mean? the Les Halles web page says it's "the home base for Chef-at-Large Anthony Bourdain" which says to me he's a Chef at large (aka a chef not tied to a restaurant) that happens to treat les Halles as his home not that he's actually employed by Les Halles. I think this meaningless 'job title' (i doubt he's actually employed in any way and les Halles and Anthony just use each other for creditability and promotion) should be replaced with "Former Corporate Executive Chef of Les Halles" harlock_jds (talk) 14:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Here is the listing for Les Halles in a secondary source listing The Chef and Restaurant Database which lists chefs for different restaurants http://www.chefdb.com/pl/2942/ As there you have no source stating that he was ever called the corporate chef of Les Halles, you should not list that, you can only list what he is currently called which is "Chef at Large"  However, I believe he states in Kitchen Confidential when he began working at Les Halles, so with that source, stating "Bourdain, originally the Executive chef of Les Halles, is now their "Chef at Large".  My earlier statement I had made in May of 2007 was incorrect finding the internet source I just gave.--Chef Tanner (talk) 14:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * my only issue is with the phrase "their Chef at Large" as the cited page doesn't say that he is their chef at large, just that he is a chef at large that uses them as his home base. This implies to me that he's not employed by them on an official level. As you say the "Executive chef of Les Halles" title is in his book (i think i can check i know at one time he was listed as such on the web page) so we can use that as the cite. harlock_jds (talk) 14:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You are right, I looked at their website again and it does not say he is the companies "Chef-at-Large" but just calls him "Chef-at-Large". It might be more accurate to say that "Les Halles is Anthony Bourdain's home base and was once their Corporate Chef", while leaving out the whole Chef at Large thing as it is vague.--Chef Tanner (talk) 14:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll figure out a better way to word it. I think we can name his former job title in one statement and them mention his current chef at large status and that he uses Les Halles as his 'home base' in a followup statement. I want to wait until i get home this evening so i can reference his former job title out of the book correctly. harlock_jds (talk) 15:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the correct wording should follow the website: "Bourdain is currently a 'Chef-at-Large' whose home base is Brasserie Les Halles ...." In order to avoid repeating the words "base" and/or "located/location," I added an em-dash, which could conceivably be deleted but seems to keep the sense intact better. It's not necessary to list "former executive chef" because that is listed in the Culinary Career section. It's clear from the Media Career - Television section that he's been on the road since 2001, so I don't think any further explanation is necessary. [Unless you want to add "where he was formerly executive chef" to the sentence, but the list of extra locations makes that unwieldy. You could, however, put the extra locations in a separate sentence -- in which case, delete the em-dash.] By the way, as of November 20, 2007, Bourdain was still referred to officially as Executive Chef of Les Halles (check the Authors@Google interview in the External Links). EDIT: Scratch that. I added "where he was executive chef for many years"; and moved the locations (with the addition of Tokyo) to the Culinary Career section. Otherwise, the sentence and lead paragraph is too much of a mouthful, and unecessarily so. Softlavender (talk) 10:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


 * looks good to me i did however remove Les Halles from his 'current restaurant in the info box since i think it's clear the chef at large isn't an actual job there. harlock_jds (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

New Yorker Article
There's no mention that it was the 1999 New Yorker article "Don't Eat Before Reading this" that lead to the book deal for Kitchen Confidential. This is mentioned at the bottom of his Interview with Dave Weich of Powells. mentioned elsewhere too like the top of this article. Linnah 16:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you find the link to that article? Or at the exact date when it was printed? &mdash; Shinhan  &lt;&thinsp; talk &thinsp;&gt; 12:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, it's pivotal for his career. The New Yorker let's their writers write with little editing and no limit on number of words. This article really launched Tony's career even though he had written for other magazines previously. It was this long essay that provided the frame work for "Kitchen Confidential". I don't have time but you can look through the The New Yorker web site to find this essay.

69.181.173.36 17:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)DavidMIA David Walters


 * It's not available online, only on the DVDs of The Complete New Yorker, for sale for $40. Bourdain says it was watered down considerably by the editors, unlike the later unexpurgated version in Kitchen Confidential. Softlavender (talk) 09:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It's literally ten years later, and it's now online in case anyone cares. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/04/19/dont-eat-before-reading-this 2604:2000:1383:81A4:8C36:683:3F88:C5E (talk) 00:13, 30 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Great! Thanks a lot; I've added it. Softlavender (talk) 02:18, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Worst Meal
Check reference 7, this was his most recent interview. They ask him, verbatim, "What is the worst meal you've ever had?" He responds: "Fermented Shark in Iceland." Then, he also mentions the rectum. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.228.113.62 (talk) 05:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * this should be added in the article along side the chicken nugget and rectum (as all have been mentioned as his 'worse meal'. I'll try and get it in (or someone else can)harlock_jds (talk) 15:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think this is verifiable in way that would meet Wikipedia standards, but I would like to add that on June 8, 2008, at the Moore Theatre in Seattle, Wa., Anthony said that the Scallops with Butterscotch dish he was served in the S04E11 episode of Top Chef was one of the absolute worst things he had ever eaten. He described it:"Like felching Mrs. Buttersworth." That's a direct quote. Just thought I would at share it here, if not in the main article. (you'll have to look up the definition of felching for yourself.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.76.200 (talk) 09:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I separated stuff into sections
Because the article was getting way too unwieldy. Softlavender (talk) 00:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Years at Les Halles; years as LH exec chef; years as a professional chef; Title; etc.
Just wanted to clear up some possible misconceptions about Bourdain's length of stay at Les Halles, etc. He was hired there as executive chef in 1998. By 2001, he was off traveling the world filming "A Cook's Tour" (and then "No Reservations"), giving lectures, promoting his book(s), and writing more books and articles. It's really unclear what his actual involvement with Les Halles was (if at all) after 2001, or if he ever even darkened the kitchen's doorstep after that or had any business or corporate involvement beyond co-writing the cookbook. For obvious reasons (Bourdain's immense popularity), he was still sometimes being billed in some venues as "exec chef" there as late as November 2007; but in reality, he had left the restaurant many years previously. In his 2008 "New York: Into the Fire" episode of "No Reservations," probably filmed in late 2007, he returns on a dare to attempt to hold down his old fry-station for a double shift at Les Halles, and states that he hadn't done that in EIGHT years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5NBUrYWak

Also, Bourdain became a professional chef in 1978 upon graduating from CIA. Previous to that, he'd been a dishwasher and roustabout cook. Since he pretty much stopped professional cooking in 2001 or 2002, he was a working professional chef for, say, 23 years or less.

Since it's hard if not impossible to document all of the above "between the lines" info, let's just stick to the sourceable facts. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 00:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks perfect the way you have it.--Chef Tanner (talk) 01:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks dude. You brought up some good points; I just tried to smooth them and document them. Softlavender (talk) 01:25, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

If it matters to anyone researching Bourdain's kitchen time, I just got the updated 2007 edition of KC, and in the new afterward he says, "Last time I cooked regularly was about six months after the book came out [it came out in 2000; not sure of the month] -- when things got crazy I found myself gently transitioning into my new job." That said, I'll also repeat that even so, Bourdain still held the official title of Executive Chef of Les Halles as late as November 20, 2007 (Authors@Google interview), and in this 2007 updated edition of KC, he was still officially listed as such. Looks like 2008 was when the title was shifted to be a "Chef-at-Large." Softlavender (talk) 03:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

UPDATE: I checked through news archives and discovered that Kitchen Confidential came out in May 2000. If we are to take Bourdain's word for it, he stopped cooking there regularly 6 months afterward, which would be November or so of 2000. That means he was a daily chef at Les Halles for about 3 years. Of course, these extrapolations are merely original research, but I thought I'd mention that I'd found the publication date of the first book. Softlavender (talk) 11:11, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Grandfather
On a program where Bourdain visits Uruguay, he states that his grandfather immigrated to Ellis Island from France after World War I. Ellis Island shows a Roger Bourdain coming in 1919, at the age of 17. Badagnani (talk) 02:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw the program, but dont remember the details. If you are sure about the numbers, guess it can be included. Dock Hi 03:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * We don't have any proof that Roger Bourdain is Tony's grandfather. Plus, on the show he says 1918, not 1919. I've included the 1918 info, as reported on the episode, into the article. It's not really significant except that it shows Bourdain's very direct and recent French ancestry. Softlavender (talk) 07:33, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * until another source says Roger Bourdain is his grandfather it would be considered original research. harlock_jds (talk) 11:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * We might want to add, "According to Anthony Bourdain". Dock Hi 12:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't think that's necessary. It doesn't need to clutter up the section any more than it already does; plus Bourdain and his brother Chris have researched the matter thoroughly. It's sourced information. There's no reason for them to lie. We don't say "According to Anthony Bourdain" about every other bit of info here that comes from a Bourdain interview; we just source it. Softlavender (talk) 12:35, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, we dont know if they have researched thouroughly. Dock Hi 14:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I think we can accept that he has a french grandfather that immigrated here after WW1 is safe to add. The Grandfathers name on the other hand isn't unless it was mentioned in the ep.harlock_jds (talk) 14:44, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Docku, go back and watch the episode. Bourdain's ancestry has been a 35-year obsession for his brother Chris. It's easy to find out records of one's grandfather. Softlavender (talk) 02:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In the episode, he said he didn't have any Bourdain relatives to speak of in the U.S. The Ellis Island records bear this out, and provide the record for his grandfather, who arrived at Ellis Island in mid-1919 (after World War I). Badagnani (talk) 05:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * From which part of France did his grandfather come? He speaks of going back to France as a child; where in France did he visit? He mentions that his ancestors were oystermen, so would that mean they were from the Atlantic coast, possibly Poitou, from whence so many of the Cajuns can trace their ancestry? Badagnani (talk) 05:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like there are a lot of Bourdains in Normandy. Doesn't Bourdain's book get into this? Badagnani (talk) 06:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Badagnani, your Orginal Research is being removed. We will state that his grandfather immigrated to NY after WWI. That covers all bases and is what Bourdain said. Softlavender (talk) 07:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I encourage you to read Kitchen Confidential and A Cook's Tour if you're interested; both of them cover Bourdain's visits to ancestral regions in France, and both are fascinating, New York Times-bestselling books. Softlavender (talk) 01:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Bunch of BS about his background. His grandfater was french, who knows probably jewish too and his mother was jewish. According to the way American jews label things he's jewish. His great grandfather who was french lived in Brazil.

What a bunch of foolishness "He also has roots in Brazil, Ukraine, Spain, Austria, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Gibraltar."...yeah whatever. Just because its was written in the huffington post by someone who dosnt explain it does it mean its right. Thewriter on huffington only gave one small snippit. "For any doubting Thomases out there, here's a small sample of the paper trail, the 1861 baptism of his great-grandfather, Aureliano Bourdain, in Sao Pedro, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. A close inspection reveals the names of his parents and grandparents." Ukraine most effeminately...but the rest..."Ukraine, Spain, Austria, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Gibraltar" whatever he wants us to believe.

Date of divorce
Can anyone find a certifiable or legal source or document (or even magazine notification such as EW) that gives the year and/or date of Bourdain's divorce? Up until early April 2007, the year of divorce was listed EVERYWHERE (including here) as 2005. Then on April 3, 2007, an anonymous user changed the date here to 2007 -- this was the only Wikipedia editing that user has ever done. Someone has also changed the IMDB date to "April 5, 2007," which seems non-credible and unlikely. By the way, IMDB is not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. (Not to mention, it is user-run and edited, and unsourced.)

So I'm putting out the call to anyone who can provide certifiable info on the year of divorce. Right now, I've edited the info to the basics of what is known to be true. Softlavender (talk) 07:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Didn't realize someone had changed it again. I know back in December we had someone claiming to be his former wife making the edit. Looks like they decided to go change IMDB too. The current wording is fine until we get an actual date (which is certanly not 2007 since it's mentioned in 2006 interviews).harlock_jds (talk) 20:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's kind of a puzzle, too -- I actually can't currently put my finger on a 2006 interview (though I certainly have not culled through all of them by any means LOL) that says he's actually divorced from his wife, although the 2006 ones I happened to look at yesterday say he is "split" from his wife. If you have a 2006 article that says "divorced," can you run it/them by me? Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Good point i think the ones i am thinking of did say split. Anyhow like you say we don't have a good source either way so it's best not to have a date. harlock_jds (talk) 10:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * BTW the reference we are currently using to support that they were married for "close to 20 years of marriage" also clearly states they were divorced in 2005. If the site is good enough to use for the length of their marriage i think it's good enough to use for the 2005 divorce date. harlock_jds (talk) 11:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm the one who dug up that source/reference. I don't know how reliable it is; it's just the only non-blog/non-forum site I could find that said 2005. (EDIT: Upon questioning, they changed "divorce" to "split up.") I did find a few message board posts (from 2006) that implied a 2005/6 divorce date, but no stand-alone reference besides that one. Anyway, if anybody comes up with a more official or newsworthy source (magazine article, interview, etc.), please supply it! Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 12:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Attica
In the episode in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia he mentioned that he had spent time in Attica as an inmate. If anyone has any info on when and why this happened it could be added. Axeman (talk) 19:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken. Suggest you watch the episode again via reruns. There is no such suggestion or mention. Softlavender (talk) 00:57, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not mistaken. He clearly says so here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxv2Srd8GeA It is at 4:01-4:06 and refers to it again at 4:23-4:26. Axeman (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think he (Bourdain) might have been kidding. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Dude, that's a joke. You need to get more acquainted with how Bourdain talks before spreading silly rumors based on the things that come out of his mouth on TV shows. Softlavender (talk) 01:35, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You really need to calm down and stop speaking to people in such a condescending tone. As for spreading rumors, I was asking for information about this on a Wiki Talk Page, not committing libel. You need to settle down and learn a more diplomatic approach to dealing with people. Axeman (talk) 17:58, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed it wasn't clear when Bourdain made the comment whether he was kidding or not. So it was a reasonable question. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Citation Needed?
I'm asking - not telling. Under the section about serious interests it mentions chefs from Latin America "who make up the vast majority of the chefs and cooks in most U.S. restaurants." Shouldn't there be a source for this? "Vast majority" is a pretty heavy handed and definitive way to describe something that has no citation. Of course, I may be wrong. 24.161.69.195 (talk) 00:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll check his book. I think he says something like this (and i think it's pretty much common knowledge). harlock_jds (talk) 13:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that it is common knowledge. I know plenty of kitchens that don't have a single Mexican or Hispanic immigrant in them, legal or otherwise. Now, granted that is personal experience, but we are talking about "Vast majority" - and I live in New York, a state that is supposed to have a high amount of Hispanic immigrants (again: both legal and illegal). 24.161.69.195 (talk) 22:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you have actually worked in kitchens which have no Hispanics, I'd say it's probable you live outside of the New York City Metropolitan Area (which also includes Westchester County and Long Island, etc.). Upstate New York actually has very very few Hispanics, a small fraction of the national average. Softlavender (talk) 09:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Though I think the new wording, is a lot better and less heavy handed, so I feel my point has been adequately addressed. Thanks. 24.161.69.195 (talk) 22:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Citations added. Softlavender (talk) 08:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Citations added? How is a chef saying something on an episode of a tv show a proper citation for a statistic? According to the National Restaurant Association's 2008 statistics [about 19% of restaurant workers are Hispanic. I'd be really curious to hear whether anyone's found backing for what was said on Top Chef. Also, how does the entirety of Kitchen Confidential act as a source for this section? EveHamilton (talk) 01:30, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Eve, you're quoting information about legal, reported employees. Bourdain is talking about all employees, legal and illegal, reported and unreported. The Pew Hispanic Center, and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, estimate that well over half of restaurant workers nationwide are Hispanic . I will add this citation to the article. Softlavender (talk) 04:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Softlavender, where in that citation does it say that? Maybe I missed it, wouldn't be the first time but I did look twice? --Malerooster (talk) 05:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It says 700,000 illegal immigrants(doesn't say from which countries) out 12.8 million workers? --Malerooster (talk) 05:24, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It says "illegal immigrants, which might account for more than 700,000 of the industry’s 12.8 million employees, according to the Pew Hispanic Center." (Therefore, it's referring to Hispanics .) Granted, it does not specifically say cooks and chefs, but at the same time that figure does not include legal, reported workers. Anyway, might not be the best citation, but it's going to be hard to cite what is an observable but illegal fact in the U.S. Softlavender (talk) 05:39, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

What is the relevance/significance of "Mr. Wolf(e)"?
What exactly is the relevance of having the fake name "Mr. Wolf(e)" in this article (in the paragraph on Beirut)? It has no real bearing on the episode, people are in disagreement about how it is spelled, and even the meaning of the name is unclear. Obviously, it must be some pop culture reference if Bourdain used it, but I don't think whatever reference it was (to Pulp Fiction? to CSI: MIami? to something else?) is very clear at all. And since people are in edit wars over how to spell the fake name, I propose it just be deleted altogether. Softlavender (talk) 00:25, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It is from pulp fiction, Harvey Keitels character. MultixferMultixfer (talk) 00:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Use of the word "mosaic"
If he uses the word "mosaic" one more time i will buy him a thesaurus. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.78.48.134 (talk) 21:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Death
The page shows he died in the recent earthquake in Italy, but the supporting source doesn't mention him. Possibly a false claim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.164.70 (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

He did die but he was thrown out of hell, and so has continued with his show. 98.245.168.93 (talk) 04:18, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Admired chefs
{Gordon Ramsay was anonymously deleted from the list of outspoken praise for chefs he admires; the deleter is otherwise a less-than dependable anonymity: can an editor check Bourdain's book? Thank you. --Wetman (talk) 21:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, he praises Ramsay in A Cook's Tour, calling him "a great chef at the top of his game." (p. 197) So feel free to add the name back in if you like, as long as you spell it correctly. Softlavender (talk) 09:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Yo Gabba Gabba! Appearance
In March 2010, Bourdain will make a guest appearance on the kid's show, "Yo Gabba Gabba!" as a doctor. Is this relevant to include in the television section? The source is Serious Eats. Rosestiles (talk) 10:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)RoseStiles
 * Not before it has aired. Softlavender (talk) 05:10, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Smoking?
Episode 4-01 shows Tony smoking while he is lounging on a boat. Episode was made after the 2007 reference in the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjstanonis (talk • contribs) 01:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

traditional or "peasant" foods
I saw this particular line as tagged for requiring citation. This is ludicrous for anyone that has actually watched the show. I can think of a dozen shows off the top of my head where he praises the "working man's food", gives homage to "street food", or simply states "food like this belongs out doors with the sounds of motorbikes and people." We could site a dozen plus episodes or we can drop this tag. I don't know what the protocol here is on that. Arguments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daftblight (talk • contribs) 04:18, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads-up. Yes, it does permeate nearly every episode he's done and nearly every book he's ever written. I've added some cites. Softlavender (talk) 04:59, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Vassar College does not have fraternities
So either he was in Delta Chi somewhere else, or he was at Vassar but not in Delta Chi. This should be changed. Erhayward (talk) 03:48, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Quite right - http://www.deltachi.org/links/index.php#N - 76.22.32.86 (talk) 07:18, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Wrong Photo Orientation
The image captioned "Bourdain in Chicago in 2007" needs to be rotated 90° clockwise. Thexper (talk) 16:41, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Brasserie Les Halles
The page for Brasserie Les Halles says his no longer working there. Either this article or the restaurants' needs to be updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.64.224.128 (talk) 20:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

PERSONAL SECTION
His wife is heavily involved in with MMA training, so can someone do some research on his personal life and mention more about his family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.30.125 (talk) 22:39, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No. The article is about Bourdain, not what his wife does in her spare time. The section is too large already. Softlavender (talk) 04:39, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Article says wife was born on Sardinia. Watching the Sardinia episode now, wife says she was born in Northern Italy but she would come to Sardinia as a kid every summer because her father (Bourdain's father-in-law) was born there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.233.221.135 (talk) 21:44, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

My Little Pony
Anthony Bourdain once mentioned that he likes the show My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic during an interview with Jimmy Fallon. This might fall under the the section Family Life since he watches it with his daughter or the section Public Persona since it contrasts with this persona. Furthermore, since Bronies are a huge and unexpected subculture, this could be considered newsworthy. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/09/anthony-bourdain-fallon-ponies_n_1583315.html 66.26.68.209 (talk) 20:35, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Does not seem even remotely notable to me. Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:49, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Racist remarks
http://www.channel24.co.za/TV/News/Controversial-TV-host-disses-South-Africa-in-show-to-air-on-CNN-20131025 --105.237.20.59 (talk) 18:36, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that episode. Now, if this matters in a few months, we can, carefully, add it.  However, this is not a newspaper.  This whole thing will almost certainly blow over.  Dbrodbeck (talk) 22:35, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have raised the issue at WP:BLPN. Dbrodbeck (talk) 00:33, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The remarks weren't "racist". Bourdain is white. It's just Bourdain being Bourdain, a mouthy smart-ass. His politics are extremely liberal so his remarks are smart-ass liberalese, like they always are and always have been and always will be. No news here. That online article itself has to repeat everything two or three times and talk about unrelated people and events just to have enough copy for a snippet. Softlavender (talk) 01:46, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with . Bourdain has an act, and part of it is saying outrageous, insulting things. Why include this and not hundreds of other insulting things he has said in deadpan style? These comments were clearly political, not racial. I don't think that anyone can argue that Afrikaaners constitute a separate race.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  02:04, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * But they are a separate ethnicity. And there are frequently arguments on what constitutes a separate race and what not. Would generalizing derogatory remarks by White people about Jews or Hispanics be be considered racist? Sure they would be, even if they have some political statements mixed into them, like they frequently do. --41.151.118.26 (talk) 14:31, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That is not the point though really. What we have here is a violation of WP:BLP Dbrodbeck (talk) 16:07, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Not a separate race; only a separate nationality or at best ethnic subgroup. That's not racism. Bourdain has made similar jocular off-the-cuff remarks about Nazis, Southern Confederates, Paula Deen, and other Caucasian people who have oppressed races other than their own. This isn't racism; it's the reverse of racism -- it's jocularly pointing up and decrying racism in one's own race. Softlavender (talk) 23:20, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I want to call User:Szekszter's attention to this discussion before he/she edits the article again. Softlavender (talk) 11:43, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I removed the section again IMO it is a violation of BLP to call the section "racist remarks" as we don't have any sources saying those remarks are in fact, racist.Two kinds of pork (talk) 12:37, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I support Two kinds of port  in this.   The remarks were controversial, but Bourdain is known for that, but they can only be called "racial" if a reliable source says they are, none of us can "connect the dots" and state "because he said a,b, and c, it's obviously a racial remark".   KoshVorlon . We are all Kosh
 * Sometimes remarks are self-evidentially racist, so there's no need for another source to characterize them as such. This is not one of those times, not by a long shot. MilesMoney (talk) 05:58, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Miles, a white guy calling other white guys "ugly white guys" is not racist; that's a logical impossibility. Softlavender (talk) 09:40, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think Miles is saying that reliable sources are needed to identify these remarks as racist. That double negative can confuse things. Liz  Read! Talk! 11:18, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, no, that's not actually the not not thing that is or isn't.
 * Or, more directly: I'm disagreeing about there always being a need to for someone to say, "Hey, that's racist". If Bourdain were to suddenly announce that all people of a particular ethnicity are inferior, we would be safe in calling that comment racist even without additional sources. At most, we'd want a source to show that someone else noticed his crazy racist comment, as opposed to one of us digging it up, thus justifying inclusion.
 * On the other hand, I'm agreeing that the "ugly white guy" comment, coming from him, does not appear to be racist. It does not fit the criteria I just outlined. Since it's not self-evidently racist and no reliable source calls it racist, it's not racist. MilesMoney (talk) 17:03, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * "Yes, no, that's not actually the not not thing that is or isn't." LOL. You are right, Liz, I misread the original comment. Then again, well, it was a bit hard for me to follow at whatever time of day or night I was reading it. That's my story. Softlavender (talk) 06:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Description of Kitchen Confidential
I know my edit was reversed on this, but I really think the current description has numerous things wrong with it. New to the wiki-editing gig, but I'm going to try to explain why I changed what I did.

For starters, describing a book as "a witty and rambunctious exposé of the hidden and darker side of the culinary world" doesn't seem to even approach objectivity, and aligns pretty directly with the listed definition of "puffery": "...Used without attribution to promote the subject of an article, while neither imparting nor plainly summarizing verifiable information... Instead of making unprovable proclamations about a subject's importance, use facts and attribution to demonstrate that importance." There's nothing verifiably witty or rambunctious about the book — those are words people use when they're trying to sell you something. Honestly, it seems like we could remove the entire sentence and not lose anything meaningful.

The other thing that bothers me about the sentence is the strange appendage on the end, "and is a memoir of Bourdain's professional life as well." It doesn't seem necessary, as the rest of the article cites it as a source of information about his professional life, and it seems like a lot of words to say "it's a memoir." Couldn't we just change "his 2000 New York Times bestselling book Kitchen Confidential" to "his 2000 New York Times bestselling MEMOIR Kitchen Confidential"?

This is a lot of verbage discussing one little sentence, but thanks for considering it. Rabdill (talk) 05:14, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Good points. I see the "witty and rambunctious" phrase used on dozens of websites to describe the book. Are they copying this article, or is this article copying some older source without properly citing the quote? Or both. Though I think it is a good phrase to describe the book, and may have been written as a summary of commentary on the book, it definitely needs to be better cited. I encourage you to do additional research, or suggest alternate wording.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  06:37, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Trivia about grandfather
U|Jeanietask, as requested and as per WP:BRD, you need to make your case here and establish consensus before repeatedly adding trivia about Bourdain's grandfather visiting the U.S. as a child. Most people visit a country before immigrating to it. This is not relevant, and is trivia. Softlavender (talk) 02:50, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the article is about Tony Bourdain, not his grandfather. Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

chronology and connected books
Our articles do not have to present works in a strictly chronological order. The connection between Kitchen... and Medium... is mentioned by both those pages.

With this in mind, I edited the Writing section to clarify. Feel free to further improve - but a wholesale reversion isn't that. Cheers, CapnZapp (talk) 10:19, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


 * As I mentioned in my edit summary, there is no indication in the citation provided that the book is a sequel. In order to make this claim you need to provide a WP:RS citation. Therefore, I am removing the claim and placing the book in chronological order once more. Softlavender (talk) 20:42, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Please see the pages on the individual books, here and here. Either the claims ("follow-up book, Medium Raw" and "the follow-up to Bourdain's bestselling Kitchen Confidential" should be removed from those pages, or it should be alright to mention both books together here. Thank you for focusing on the sourcing issue and not contesting the chronology issue, by the way. Regards, CapnZapp (talk) 09:50, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter what other Wikipedia articles say; Wikipedia per se (or indeed any wiki or crowdsourced site) is not a reliable source and cannot be used as a citation. It matters what WP:RS citations provided say. Since no RS citations have been provided for this article to substantiate the claim, it cannot be added as a fact to this article. Softlavender (talk) 21:21, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * You are a wee bit too categorical and absolute there, Softlavender. Let's try it out and see if a ref comes up. To be specific: I now did what you should consider doing more often, namely instead of wholesale reversion, using various help tools to improve the article. In this case, I have added the fact template to indicate a need to cite the sequel claim. Since this claim is made on related pages tagging it is reasonable since it's probably true (and more to the point: verifiable), rather than removing it as if it was vandalism. Best regards, CapnZapp (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works, CapnZapp. See WP:BRD. Also, anything uncited may be challenged and removed. Therefore I am going to remove this again. Please do not re-add it unless you supply a WP:RS substantiation. Softlavender (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Okay, time to ask you for a bit of basic courtesy. Let's assume you just found this claim that you feel needs sourcing, and follow the fact template instructions Citation needed step by step: I hope you don't consider this fact "palpable nonsense". I do assume nothing about claiming "this book is a sequel to that book" can be construed as libel, or even controversial. Here we go, only you have not even once doubted the veracity of the claim. All you say is "give a reference or it gets deleted". That's an incredibly inflexible and curt response. I have no evidence you have done any of this. If you have taken steps to verify the claim, but failed, then a "I'm sorry but this doesn't seem right" would go a long way. A "and so I've edited the articles of the books to remove the inaccurate connection" would be even better.
 * Do NOT tag palpable nonsense. Delete it.
 * Do NOT tag controversial, poorly sourced claims in biographies of living people. Delete them immediately!
 * If you are sure the statement you want to tag is not factual, even if it does not come under either of the preceding headings, it may still be appropriate to be bold and simply edit it out of the text (delete it). Be sure to add a suitable edit summary such as "Very doubtful - please do not revert without giving a citation". If the original statement was accurate after all this gives someone the chance to put it back, hopefully with a proper citation this time.
 * If a statement sounds plausible, and is consistent with other statements in the article, but you have honest doubts that it is totally accurate, then consider making a reasonable effort to find a reference yourself. In the process you may end up confirming that the statement is too doubtful to remain.

So I got to ask you: how often do you add fact templates to claims instead of just deleting stuff outright, Softlavender? CapnZapp (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

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Raw Craft with Anthony Bourdain
I believe this article should include the online film series Raw Craft with Anthony Bourdain (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdg0QhLNc29XuXmmv5Vu__bfNUeZI76ve). However, I doesn't seem to fit in the "Television" category. Perhaps we should alter this to "Visual Media" or make a new category for "Digital Media." Potentially include his appearance on the VICE show Munchies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxYul_LV0I) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aberrantgeek (talk • contribs) 19:53, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

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