Talk:Anthony Norris Groves

Further improvements needed
Some initial comments on the page as it first came to my attention earlier today. These are recorded to help other users contribute positively to this article. DFH 17:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Expand the biography. With the wealth of data in Dann's book, considerably more detail should be inserted to provide a rounder picture of Groves.
 * Use fewer wikilinks to common words. Use links sparingly for significant names and places, etc, rather than to ordinary words that can be found in a dictionary.  Always check that wikilinks really go to the right page.  Don't just assume they do!
 * Try to avoid the overuse of pious Christian jargon that might not be appreciated by others. Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an advertising medium. Keep to an encyclopedic style.
 * Maintain an NPOV, even when writing as possibly someone with an admiration of Groves.

To do
Suggestions for additions to the article: DFH 20:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * A digital image picture of Groves would be useful.
 * Add the names and births of Grove's children.
 * Something about the silk farm at Chittoor.
 * More about Groves' thinking and ideas.
 * His open hearted fellowship with Christians from other churches.

Place of birth?
There is no place called Newton in Hampshire, but there are three Newtowns in the same county: Further research required to determine which of these may have been his place of birth. Also the Newtown page requires editing to include all 23 places in the UK with this name. DFH 12:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Lat: 50:54:51N (50.9141) Lon: 1:07:57W (-1.1325)
 * Lat: 50:57:25N (50.9570) Lon: 1:13:31W (-1.2254)
 * Lat: 51:00:41N (51.0115) Lon: 1:33:31W (-1.5587)

Checked in Dann's biography; Groves was born in the tiny village of Newton Valance, Hampshire.DFH 16:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC) I have therefore just created a stub page for it. DFH 16:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Lat: 51:05:17N (51.0880) Lon: 0:57:57W (-0.9657)

John Arulappen
I have just acquired a copy of The History and Diaries of an Indian Christian: J. C. Aroolappen by G. H. Lang, 1939, London, Thynne & Co. I might therefore be in a position to create an article about John Christian Aroolappen (1810–1867-03-14), providing I can find the time. DFH 14:48, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Primitivism
The link to primitivism is inappropriate, for that article has to do with the art movement of that name. I think there is no article yet for Christian primitivism. DFH 15:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * See Christianity & Society Vol 14, No 4, Oct 2004, for an interesting article about (Christian) primitivism. DFH 15:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In the absence of such an article title, I have adopted the expedient of changing the link to Restorationism, even though that has much wider scope. DFH 15:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Publishers not booksellers
Tamarisk Books was the imprint of a publisher, not a bookseller. Likewise, Sentinel Publications was the name of a specialist publisher. I do not think WP:NOT means us to remove all references to publishers when listing books in the reference section of an article. In fact, there is nothing in WP:NOT which forbids including the name of a bookseller in such a context, though this obviously should be done with care. It wouldn't be necessary for widely available titles, but it could prove useful for highly specialised titles. DFH 15:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Membership in Brethren?
Reading the article (and some others I have found on the 'net), I see that Groves had a significant influence on Plymouth Brethren - but nothing that specifies whether he ever considered himself a member or attended assembly. 69.30.97.248 22:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

According to Andrew Miller in his book "The Brethren, Commonly So Called" published in 1870, A. N. Groves was supposed to be the fifth of the first brethren met for breaking bread in Hutchinson's house, 9 Fritzwilliam square, Dublin. But as he did not agree on the principle of "excommunication of the evil person", which the other four considered essential, he did not join brethren on that day, and until left to Baghdad. This did not cut his relation with brethren. Some brethren joined him in Baghdad for some time. But when returned in 1847, he had relation with Bristol brethren meeting, which was in Bethesda hall, where G. Muller was a prominent. When brethren were split into "Open Brethren" and "Exclusive Brethren", he joined the Open side, as they were more relax in applying the disputed principle M Dairy (talk) 11:34, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

POV tag
Hi all:

I placed this POV tag because I felt that this section on Groves' death was entirely UNPOV. Groves continued preaching and teaching in India until ill health forced him back to England in 1852. He passed into the presence of his Master in May 1853 in the home of his sister's husband George Müller. He considered his life a failure, and did not live long enough to see the worldwide impact of his ideas and example on a new generation of "faith missions" springing from the 1859-60 Revivals.

Why POV TAG? I have laid this out by sentence.

1) "He passed in the presence of his Master" (I have never seen someone's death described that way in Wikipedia.) It is filled with POV, in that wikipedia does not take a position in the existence of Jehovah... and if you were a believer, it is also presumptuous to assume that His will is that Groves went to see God (as opposed to the other guy) 2) "He considered his life a failure..." Please cite this. 3) ..."Did not live long enough to see the worldwide impact of his ideas and example on a new generation of "faith missions" springing from the 1859-60 Revivals." Again, this sounds like it was written as a celebration of Groves' life... which is entirely inappropriate to an encyclopedia & to NPOV.

Please let me know if anyone has any objections to these thoughts. Thanks V. Joe (talk) 13:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Broken link due to closure of UK Online
Early in 2011, Sky pulled the final plug on its subsidiary ISP called UK Online. As a result this caused the loss of content about Groves hosted by that ISP. Readers should use the Wayback Machine to retrieve the content from the Internet Archive. e.g. Christian Devotedness DFH (talk) 18:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Likewise Anthony Norris Groves (1795-1853). DFH (talk) 18:59, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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