Talk:Aphex Twin/Archive 2

RDJ Picture
This is just my opinion, but even though the picture that's on the Aphex Twin page is recent, shouldn't there be a better picture there that gives a better picture of RDJ as a person? One's that were taken back when he had longer hair are ideal for this. Mreddy1 (talk) 20:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)Mreddy1
 * I think the pic is fine. -DMurphy (talk) 07:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Was his mothers name really "Penis"?


 * The pic is appropriate, since it is a very recent one. Richard's mother's name was Lorna. McYaballow (talk) 19:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

?
''Between 1991 and 1993, James released three Analogue Bubblebath EPs under the name of AFX, two Bradley Strider EPs, and three Caustic Window EPs. Under the Power-Pill name he released the Pac-Man EP based on the arcade game Pac-Man. Under the Aphex Twin name he released the Xylem Tube EP and Digeridoo''

Many more releases between 1991 and 1993. ChunkyStyle (talk contribs) 01:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Laptop as a musical instrument
Someone deleted laptop from the list of musical instruments. Listen mate, Aphex Twin popularised the laptop as an instrument for performing live musical performances. Do you realise this? He wasn't the first, but he popularised it. Goddamn cluebags messing with the genre names and instrument infobox stuff... readd it.


 * It's not an instrument. Also technically it doesn't matter wether you use a laptop or a desktop.83.118.88.137 22:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I propose to change laptop to computer. A laptop is a computer. Everything you do on laptop you can do on a computer. You can't hear what's specifically made on a laptop and what on a computer. A computer is an instrument as it can produce sound. Softsynth doesn't cover everything you can do with a computer. Biggiesmartypants 09:39, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Laptop, computer, softsynth.... This is ridiculous. I suggest we should just leave it at softsynth, since that is what is running when using a computer/laptop. You say softsynth can't do everything what a computer can? Of course that's what it is based on. If you're talking about the ordinary functions a computer has, that has nothing to do with the aspect of qualifying it as an instrument. McYaballow (talk) 19:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Laptop as well as computer as an instrument to me seems like too much and cluttering.Biggiesmartypants (talk) 21:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The Wire
There should at least be a mention of his appearances in The Wire, such as the famous cover of number 237!
 * If it's a good picture, and it can be shown legally without any copyright problems, then why don't you scan it in and add it to the article? Good luck. Newsnight Watcher 08:19, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Quoth
(Quoth) should redirect to the "Singles" section of the "(Surfing On Sine Waves)" article, unless anyone thinks there's enough info available about it to warrant a full article.

Advertising
There are about 20 too many mentions of FUTURE MUSIC MAGAZINE in this article. Please stop advertising. Recury 16:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * What else are we supposed to call it?


 * You aren't supposed to mention it in the article itself. So like instead of "When asked by Future Music in 2006 who he currently admired musically, he responded..." you should say "He has said that the artists he admires musically are..." and then put the article as a source. Recury 19:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ya dude, that's cool. You rewrite it.User:Joyrex


 * Perhaps you could draft a suitable rewrite? I agree with what you're saying, but you probably have a better idea of how the article should be expressed than I do.


 * Yeah, I was planning to. Just don't add it back once I do it is all I'm saying. Recury 20:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

IDM musicians
Why did you remove Aphex Twin from the IDM musicians category? Recury 16:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Selected ambient works: Ambient Techno, Selected Ambient Works 2: Ambient, I care because you do: Ambient Techno, Richard D. James album: Drum and Bass/Drill and Bass, Drukqs: Prepared Piano/Drill and Bass, Chosen Lords: Acid House. With those albums listed, it should be obvious! Newsnight Watcher 16:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course he has made many different types of music but it is generally agreed that he is one of the major figures in the IDM genre along Autechre, Boards of Canada, Squarepusher, etc. Also I would argue with much of your categorization, for instance I wouldn't say ICBYD is ambient techno by any stretch and I would say Drill and Bass is a subgenre or at least overlaps heavily with IDM. Recury 17:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What the hell is IDM? Newsnight Watcher 17:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If you don't know, you shouldnt be removing him from the category. Recury 17:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what the hell is IDM? It was invented by the IDM list to categorise Rephlex Records songs. What is drill and bass? A genre name made by fans to describe Aphex Twin's take on drum and bass. If we're going to describe Richard D. James album, drill and bass is accurate, popular, and perfect really, how the heck is that a subgenre of IDM? In reality it's a subgenre of Drum and Bass. Newsnight Watcher 17:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The question is not whether or not he is drill and bass, but whether or not he is IDM. There are plenty of published sources that say that he is, so your opinion doesn't really matter all that much here, I'm afraid. Recury 17:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Where? Where are those sources? I have never seen Aphex Twin quoted as an IDM musician in any respected published music magazine or newspaper source. Please show those sources to me. Newsnight Watcher 17:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You really haven't? Well, here's one, here's another, allmusic lists him as one, and, hell, he's in the lead paragraph of the Wikipedia article on IDM. I'm sure there are dozens more if you feel like looking. Recury 17:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Although All Music is highly respected and can't be faulted, those other two articles are bullshit. Show me some decent print sources. Newsnight Watcher 17:53, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, that's plenty. Adding the category back. Recury 18:04, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Dude, those two sources are online and they are wrong too. That allmusic site also lists Aphex Twin as trance. You've gotta be joking! Give me a real fucking source, such as from NME, The Wire, Melody Maker, or Rolling Stone. Newsnight Watcher 18:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The first time I saw Aphex Twin on MTV, it was 1991/92, I can't remember now the name of the song, but I recorded it on a VHS tape and I still have here. I suddenly compared him to Kraftwerk, and I found it very strange that MTV was broadcasting such pure electronic music with no danceable rhythms. Those days, the Orb and Aphex Twin were referred to as electronic music, electronic dance music, techno and ambient techno, some works by AT were jungle (a term that is still used in Germany, see [here] for example). The words IDM and electronica appeared on the web many years later, and I honestly have never heard of them in the real world; I don't live in UK, though I'm (or I have been) familiar with people from every corner of the world.Dr. Who 02:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * IDM was originally created for the rephlex records. Rephlex records is practically just aphex twin. It think it's the ultrimate to describe Aphex Twin. IDM can be any thing from Acid House TO Drum and Bass. Sure it wasn't the first genre to describe, but it's easier to say IDM then, to list 10 diffren't grenres. IDM is an evolved genre title, and is far more effecient. When you hear the term "Electronic" you usually think of cheesey techno stuff, and more formatic groups like Chemical Brothers and Daft Punk. so IDM is the "Intelligent" side of Electronic, in my personal view. This can be further debated, but I baleave that the fact that Richard pretty much created the idealism of IDM that he should be quallified as so. SamWhite 03:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * the term "IDM" has nothing to do with Rephlex records. it comes from the name of a mailing list started to discuss the WARP records "artificial intelligence" records. Rephlex records is most certainly not "practically just aphex twin". Take one look at the discogs entry and you can see this.
 * I don't think that Wikipedia should take in serious consideration that "Electronic" is a "cheesey techno stuff". Electronic music is a well defined genre of music, this is not the place for slang, word of mouth or hearsays.
 * the collection of sounds under the IDM umbrella have overgrown its enclosure. I can kind of see why they thought of "intelligent dancing" in the beginning... SAW 85-92 for example was really beautiful to just chill and listen to, classical almost, and it also had an alluring beat, danceable in a thoughtful way.Tzongue 06:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nor is Sam White's "personal view" good enough to essentially negate IDM as a genre (or to lump Acid House, Drum and Bass, and other danceable electronic music in it). Oh and wikipedia's auto-spellchecker is your friend. Good grief man! Formatic isn't even a word ;) -76.166.23.65 09:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

artists influenced by aphx twin
87.203.73.42 00:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)kost

majority of DnB artists, shpongle(and alikes). discuss, please!

Again on genres
IDM, beside having been a term that some journalists sometimes used in a metaphoric way, is only the product of some stupid people that are trolling the whole web. You do not need to be a scientist to fuck Google, it is named Google bombing. And by the way, I suspect that many Wikipedians are almost crazy, beside being very rich and with no real problems in the real world, becouse there is no such a thing like hundreds of music genres in the real world. Music genres are not more than a couple of dozens, in the worst case, in the best case are less than 10. Many of you would need a doctor [yes, Doctor Who ;P ]Dr. Who 13:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Before reverting again, take a breath and go to Prepared piano: it's a technique, and I moved it in the instruments section, not a genre.Dr. Who 14:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I see that someone still insists that Aphex Twin doesn't have nothing to do with Ambient Music, Electronic Music, Instrumental music (a term that sounds better than new age or similar). IDM is WP:OR, indeed the term was coined by some groups of fans and the article itself explains that Richard D. James doesn't take it seriously, indeed he laughs at it; the point is that, according to critical reasoning, there is no proof that IDM is a term that describes a genre in a way that no other word can describe or address. It is obvious that every artist has his/her own style, that doesn't mean that we can maintain an Encyclopedia with a different genre for each artist. Fanatism sometimes is funny, sometimes is boring.Dr. Who 02:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't expect too many more responses from me on this, because I don't take your position very seriously. You may not think that IDM is a legitimate genre, but plenty of published writers do and that is all that matters here. You obviously do not understand WP:OR very well if you think that a genre that has been used by dozens of legitimate publications is OR, and perhaps you should take a good hard read of WP:V which explains the whole "verifiability, not truth" thing. Recury 15:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As you can see from previous talks (above), I'm not the only guy that has to "complain" about the abuse of the term IDM. I'm arguing that it should not be put in the infobox, that's all, but of course it has to be covered in the page. From the point of view of a music theorist, IDM is a meaningless word; is music theory still important, or you are going to tell me that journalists can teach music?
 * Unless your opinion has been published in reliable publications, then no, it doesn't matter. It's Wikipedia's rule, not mine. Recury 23:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed due to its open "source-ness" the web is not a reputable and reliable source of information. Honestly, I believe that 99 % of the web content is trash. There is no serious magazine, such as Sound on Sound, Q Magazine or Rolling Stone that support or emmphasize the use of IDM. By the way, if you put IDM in the infobox, then all the other genres have to be deleted from there, becouse IDM is also an umbrella term encompassing a number of different things.Dr. Who 03:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Recury, it's not nice to see that you still haven't given a reliable print source from a respected publication for your assertion that IDM is actually a genre of music and that Aphex Twin makes his music in that genre. There is no source for it because it's false and just your opinion. Deleting the ambient music genre from the infobox is laughable, especially as two of Aphex Twin's albums are called Selected Ambient Works Why delete Electronic Music from the genre name list? You know Aphex Twin is totally influenced by Electronic Music, right? You know he makes Electronic Music. You know he made his own equipment from his knowledge in Electronics? Newsnight Watcher 06:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, your belief that 99% of the web is trash doesn't matter one bit, as Wikipedia accepts as reliable many types of websites and the ones I've listed fall well within that. Other reasons I won't be giving print sources are 1) I don't read any magazines, and therefore don't have any to give 2) as I've said, I don't need to since the ones I gave before were fine and 3) to help you guys learn about the policies of this site so that maybe one day you will stop being disruptive and start actually being helpful. Recury 14:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I know the policies. I'm not breaking them. You must provide a good source to back up what you're saying. Because you haven't, you'll have to wait until somebody else does it for you. The point of having sources is so we can check to see if it's incorrect or not. Recury, I don't understand why you insist on having an unverifiable genre name in the infobox considering that there are perfect verifiable genre names that represent Aphex Twin's work and descriptions of his work from various print magazines such as Rolling Stone. Considering that Aphex Twin has never made an IDM genre record, I can't understand your position at all. The genre list is for genres that Aphex Twin has worked in and released albums in. Like, it's supposed to show the reader what style of music Aphex Twin has made and stuff. Recury, we are being bold by stating Aphex Twin's musical genres, please be helpful and stop replacing the verifiable genre names used by magazines with unverifiable names invented by internet fanboys. Newsnight Watcher 14:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * When I mentioned that "99 % (arguably) of thrash" I was referring to the number of not-relevant-to-the-sought-subject results that almost every search engine returns after any query. So we ask Google: how many pages on the web include the word IDM?, but I'm sure that none will ever check every page, so we get faked and unuseful results.Dr. Who 00:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't want to revert again because of the 3rr rule and the edit war smell is getting worse. Recury, please stop it. Stop it. Newsnight Watcher 08:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Added Electronic Music to the genre list. As stated in many Aphex Twin interviews that are linked to the article as sources, Aphex Twin studied Electronics, built is own electronic music equipment himself, and makes electronic music albums, and has stated his favourite music as including Stockhausen, Delia Derbyshire, and so on. Anyone who tries to remove this is going against good sources and the facts. Newsnight Watcher 06:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC) this is stupid! you assholes are fighting over the stupidiest things (DAmn nerds) printed proof from Roling Stone? Read this Greetz, Sietse
 * IDM is already mentioned in the 3rd party influences section where it belongs, as IDM was invented by the IDM list (a specific group of internet fans of Aphex Twin). As the Rolling Stone source shows, Aphex Twin is known as a pioneer of techno and ambient electronic music. These are what his genres are, and that is what goes in the genre box! The rolling stone article is correct in saying that among fans of IDM but it neglects to mention that IDM is a mailing list so we have other sources such as a link to that site to explain it. Whatever, Aphex Twin's musical genres are clear as day, and Aphex Twin is a pioneer in them. IDM belongs in the 3rd party section, and that's where it is. You have the damn mention of your bloody "IDM discussion list" so please stop trying to put mention of it everywhere in the article where it doesn't belong.Joyrex


 * "pioneer of techno and ambient electronic music" "Among fans of IDM, or Intelligent Dance Music, as this sort of stuff is unfortunately labeled" Which one is better? The Journalist and Historians one? Or the dumbass fanboy one?
 * Well does that matter? I think not. Though I do agree it is a stupid term, but since this discussion is not about stupid names for something let's just not talk about that.
 * it matters because those are the quotes from rolling stone magazine.

If not IDM why not 'Braindance'? it's a term that Rephlex label applies to their own music, so it should be fitting to include that in the description of AFX

Analords
analord 10 is credited to Aphex Twin and Chosen Lords is credited to Aphex Twin/AFX. is there any opposition to amending this?

A chronological discography
...might be useful? --kingboyk 23:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've started on a separate discography here. &mdash; Shoejar 08:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Covers
Im suprised no one added The Bad Plus "Flim" Cover (personal fav). Someone should do a quick crosscheck on anyone else prominent who's done covers. I of course am too lazy.

Richard D James's other ventures
Mention should be made of Richard D James's foray into film and animation. In 2003 he wrote and directed an animated short film titled 'New Balls Please' that recieved an Honarary Mention at the Prix Ars Electronica 2004. This is very interesting in the fact that it is a creative interest of his, not entirely related to sound, in fact Sound Production for the film is credited to sound designer Barnaby Templar -

He was also joint winner with Chris Cunningham for the Golden Nica award Prix Ars Electronica 1999 for the Come to Daddy music video clip.

The following is his Bio from Ars Electronica -

''Richard James (UK) is a graduate of the National Film and Television School. His film Dick was screened in festivals including Annecy and Hiroshima. Richard’s first year film Studs premiered on ITV in 2001 and was a finalist in the DepicT short film festival in Bristol. He also co-designed, illustrated and applied all of the 3D texturing on the NFTS graduation film The Trinket Maker. ''

The most recent info i can find is that RDJ created animation for the opening title sequence of the 2005 feature film Bob the Butler, (seemingly) through the production company Sherbert  who also produced New Balls Please


 * Heck, you've done most of the work already; just make it sound encyclopedic and add it. We'll format it for you if you don't know how. Recury 21:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure, I could add the info, but don't have great deal of time so give me a few days (01/11/06) and thanks, i may need formatting correction. If an articulate fan in the meantime would like to do the honours though, feel free.


 * Have you got any proof it's actually "Richard D. James" the Aphex Twin? It's not a very unusual name really and this would be the 1st a lot of people would have heard of this.................
 * It certainly is him, look at the ARSelectronica website along with a skanky photo of RDJ it states he's attained two awards - one for the Come to Daddy video  with Chris Cunningham, the other for his animation New Balls Please. My guess is that his interest in animation might exlain why he hasn't been as prolific with his music over the last few years.


 * Suggestions on how best to input this on the main page?


 * Can you find reference to this on any other site? I doubt it very much. Btw that is a picture of Chris Cunningham not RDJ, and as for him being less prolific recently, what about the _12_ analord 12 inches last year? I'm pretty certain its not the same 'richard d. james'.

The ARS Electronica website is incorrect, Sherbert Productions have stated to me that Richard D James is not Richard James, producer of New Balls Please.

Aphex twins Twin
Apparently Richard James's twin sibling died at birth - influencing his title Aphex Twin - can anyone clarify this?
 * wasnt his twin, it was his older brother who died as a baby, he had the same first name, its his grave on the Girl Boys ep cover. -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  01:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It wasn't as a baby, it was stillborn (that's why there's only one date on the headstone). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 17:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Acid
There are numerous mentions of "acid" in the article - I suggest linking them to the "Acid House" article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_house Orsocio 04:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

discography gets its own section
it was about time, too much info on the main page. -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  03:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Who designed the Aphex Twin logo?
Does anybody know who designed the aphex logo on xylem and saw2 ? --cslarsen 14:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

The Aphex Twin Classics
One of my favorites, it's not on the discography. I've always referred to it as Aphex Twin - The Aphex Twin Classics, not The Aphex Twin - Classics, but I get disagreed with there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.70.226.219 (talk) 04:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC).


 * "Classics" is a compilation not a proper release, it can be viewed via the discography page. furthermore this is one of the very few releases RDJ is credited as "The" Aphex Twin, the Digeridoo single is another one. Alex  Ov  Shaolin  19:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
A pronuncation of "Aphex Twin" would be helpful. 66.117.231.24 23:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

AY FEX TO IN

Actually it's:

AHB SOH LOOT WHIN


 * afecks twin ChunkyStyle (talk contribs) 06:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There is no one and only proper way to pronuonce it, as in Autechre. But I would suggest that it goes the same way as Aphex System, however they pronuonce it.. McYaballow (talk) 10:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Videoclips
THere is no mention (well, I added today some words), of his Videoclips. Help is needed! Happy editing! :)  Dr. Who 21:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Star Wars theme... fake or real?
Who composed the Star Wars theme that's floating on P2P? Is it really Aphex Twin or is it somebody else? If it's him, where does it fit in the timeline?--Sonjaaa 19:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * it's a fake, i forget who by. --Kaini 19:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * the starwars remix is a landmark in RDJ's timeline, I demand an article now! It's Raelly rael. *performs kickass outside violin solo* -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  06:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Any more info on this competition he won by producing sound on the zx81? What date was it held, and who or what publication hosted the competition. I produced sound on the zx81 around that time, had a letter published about it...

"As The Tuss" (under Discography)
Rushup Edge

Has it been confirmed that The Tuss is indeed Richard? Have I missed something?

I wouldn't call his GAK & Bradley Strider EPs "notable releases" either?


 * nope. i've removed it as unverifiable. --Kaini 18:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, The Tuss has definitely not been confirmed, although some press has written about the mystery. There seems to be some pretty good evidence that it's him or that he was involved. Not sure if anything should be added to the page yet though. --Weakmassive 16:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

discography
i didnt open the discography page just so you dumb fucks could add everything back here. -- Alex Ov  Shaolin  03:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Intelligent Dance Music
anon editor User talk:82.3.26.215‎ does not agree to the inclusion of the term 'IDM' in a number of articles (and does not acknowledge IDM as a genre; see this exchange); however he is willing to enter into discussion, hence this topic;

we need to reach a consensus regarding IDM. i do not like the term, but it is convenient, so i am for it --Kaini 03:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, i was also taking the term ' idm ' out of the aphex twin article, and that apparrently is vandalism because it doesn't agree with other peoples ideas.
 * Afaik, IDM was the name of a mailing list made in the 90s to discuss Warp's Artifcial Intelligence compilations.
 * As a musical genre name it means nothing imo, it is so nebulous as to be useless, you had just as well say 'electronic music'. I know the fact I think labelling aphex twin's music 'IDM' is a complete insult doesn't matter one jot on here, but there are already enough recognisable genres which he makes music in - jungle, techno, ambient, noise etc. etc. etc. - 'electronic' and 'experimental' are good enough catch all terms I think - another, elitist, insulting, embaressing one is not needed. Ps. IMO, The IDM article on here is a beyond joke . --gggoldshif —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.131.91 (talk • contribs)
 * If he were on the fringe of the genre or something, I wouldn't care, but when people talk about IDM one of the main artists they mean is Aphex Twin. To leave it out of the list would be a major omission. It doesn't have clearly defined limits like happy hardcore or something, but it isn't so vague as electronic music or rock n' roll either. Recury 18:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been holding back for a while on this. The thing is, hardly any of Aphex Twin could be called IDM. Aphex Twin made drum and bass, it was fast and fucked up but he was making drum and bass. Calling RDJ an IDM album is pure crazy talk. Just because a selection of people on the internet liked to call it IDM doesn't make that album an IDM one. Aphex Twin doesn't really make IDM music. His followers who have grown up on the internet community make it. It's our thing. I think IDM should be written in this article, but it's right to keep it in a section which describes it as what some internet fans invented to describe bizarre music from Warp Records. It's definitely not a "musical genre" that Aphex Twin has worked in. IDM: leave it in the article and out of the genres. IDM is really great, I love Chris Clark and stuff, it's awe inspiring stuff. I even have had my own mp3 label for IDM (we gave up on it)... However I don't think it's a musical style that Aphex Twin works in or applies to any of his records. I agree with everyone on Electronic Music as it is superglued to -*Aphex Twin*- and his infuences, Stockhausen, Delia Derbyshire, and so on. Aphex Twin is world famous for building his own electronic instruments at age 13 for God's sake. None of my friends think Aphex Twin makes IDM. We've all read the interviews since www.joyrex.com in 2002. Sorry for talking a sad "git", it's just my two mao (cents) xiexie - tommy zhang

hello, i will remove idm until i die. that is my promise. Susume-eat 05:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd rather live, and won't revert any further in this skirmish. Maybe the disagreement goes to show that info-boxes are overrated. ---Sluzzelin talk  02:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Kaini and Recury will keep readding IDM. Why? I want to remove it. It is not for Aphex Twin:s albums, it was created on the IDM list on the internet. It is not Aphex Twin:s music, it is some boys on the internet who made this name. I have researched Aphex Twin many times for my university projects. Susume-eat 06:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Didn't you read any of the previous discussions about this? Published, reliable sources consistently refer to his music as IDM, that's why it's staying. Whether you (or I) think he is or not doesn't matter at all, sorry. Recury 13:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * precisely. hell, i don't even like the term, i think it's clunky and pretentious. but it's out there, it's what a LOT of people (including published, reliable sources) refer to rdj's music as, and you can't just make the term disappear now. the term is not a good one, but it exists. --Kaini 13:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Let us see your sources:
 * Stylus magazine - some American website run by some man.
 * Slate magazine - a random website magazine.
 * Calls it I.D.M not IDM
 * Describes Squarepusher as he is limited to software on his laptop. Squarepusher is famous for his ::::Akai sampler ability. Not often use computer for making music. This is wrong, this man who wrote this article doesn't know much about what he's talking about. The writer runs an I.D.M. record label in America, he is not someone who understands Aphex Twin very much.
 * Describes Squarepusher as he is limited to software on his laptop. Squarepusher is famous for his ::::Akai sampler ability. Not often use computer for making music. This is wrong, this man who wrote this article doesn't know much about what he's talking about. The writer runs an I.D.M. record label in America, he is not someone who understands Aphex Twin very much.


 * Rolling Stone - a famous printed magazine, good source.
 * Let me see now, it says Aphex Twin was the pioneer of techno and ambient electronic music before but that his new album drukqs is not very good in the journalist' opinions. Here he has said what music style Aphex Twin is. Then later IDM is mentioned to refer to the fans of Aphex Twin because they made a rumour of him putting the fake songs on the internet. What the journalist is mention is the IDM list discussion email chat and the WATMM and xltronic message because they call Aphex Twin IDM and they make up rumours about Aphex Twin.
 * Let me see some good sources:
 * http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2100257,00.html
 * The Guardian - famous newspaper in Britain well known for high quality journalism all over the world (but also famous for its typo). Here Aphex Twin described as: "Occupation: Electronic/techno rock musician". rock is a typo.
 * http://arts.guardian.co.uk/fridayreview/story/0,,734809,00.html
 * "Richard James, aka Aphex Twin, is the most inventive and influential figure in contemporary electronic music."
 * IDM is not mention.
 * http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/music/story/0,,2087326,00.html
 * News story by Louis Pattison, famous journalist works for NME, Melody Maker, Amazon, The Guardian. High integrity music journalist. Electronica mention but not no IDM is mentioned at all. Look at my other sources, over 40 sources, no one mention of IDM for Aphex Twin. Only bad sources (mistakes in article, unfamous distant magazine) mention it. Strong British high integrity newspaper mentions no IDM at all for you. Thank you for reading my research! I study a lot about Aphex Twin. I want to become a similar musician. SUSUME EAT.

Hello. I want to say I checked the sources here and found a famous Aphex Twin fan website www.xltronic.com for the Aphex Twin article archive. The archive is more than 40 articles and interviews from many famous publications, The Guardian, Loaded, Index Magazine. Many British publications with great details of Richard James and Aphex Twin. Aphex Twin is British. I searched through this archive for mentions of IDM but I was surprised to have found none. I did take some notes which you can see here below;

http://xltronic.com/nostalgia/aphextwin.nu/v4/learn/

list of genre names very frequently appearing: electronic, ambient techno, Electronica, electronic music, ambient less frequent: chicago and detroit house, detroit techno,, acid, hardcore, acid house, intelligent techno, electronic listening music, industrial techno, electronic pop, Avantgarde, , techno/electronica techno, Electronic trance music, Techno, Ambient Techno, rave, easy listening (mike and rich album), experimental, mimimalist techno, home-listening techno

Some selection of quotes: "he created hundreds of electronic works," ""Richard D. James Album" - This is Aphex's foray into jungle" "With his awesome 1992 album "Selected Ambient Works 85-92" he co-founded a music genre that is known as Electronic Listening." "Richard D. James, known by many as Aphex Twin, began his career in the mid 80's composing jungle, industrial, and ambient techno for the U.K. dance scene." "Richard James, aka Aphex Twin, is the most inventive and influential figure in contemporary electronic music."

Consider this, I want to remove IDM also. It is a word used for the messageboards of WATMM, xltronic, IDM list, and some fanzine only. It is not for Aphex Twin's songs. I want to add Electronica, it is often in musical articles about Aphex Twin.

(de-indent) - the sources are there if you read the many previous discussions on this page regarding this. susume, i believe your edits are in good faith but we have been over this a million times. there is a wikipedia article on IDM - there probably would not be an article on this if richard hadn't made SAW85-92, or if the term wasn't notable. i do not like the term IDM, but it exists, and is notable, and has been referred to in notable publications. if you can get the article on IDM deleted, then you would have grounds for removing it from this article. wikipedia works on the principles of verifiability and notability. the term IDM is both verifiable and notable. '''it doesn't matter if you don't like the term. it doesn't matter if i don't like the term'''. the term exists and many publications which are much more notable than you or i class some of richard's music as IDM. therefore as an encyclopaedia wikipedia should as well. i would encourage you to register an opinion in the poll below, because at this stage it seems the only way to resolve this editwar besides an RFA --Kaini 05:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * as an aside, what does constitute IDM in your opinion? the lead para from the Intelligent dance music article reads....

"Intelligent dance music (commonly IDM) is a genre of electronic music derived from dance music of the 1980s and early 1990s which puts an emphasis on novel processing and sequencing.[1] IDM's roots in electronic dance are responsible for the term 'Dance' in the genre name, which was originally applied to musicians like Aphex Twin and those on the Warp Records label. Music referred to as IDM is generally abstract, and may range from soft ambient textures to more abrasive noise." --Kaini 05:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * susume, it now seems you're removing the term from other articles using an anon identity . wikipedia strongly discourages this and regards it as sockpuppetry. i would encourage you to not do this. again, WP:AGF, but it makes you look like a vandal. --Kaini 04:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I put the following section here to not fragment this discussion. The first remark was made by an anonyumous user under the title 'genre list' but it deals just about IDM anyway. With the straw poll the discussion should be over for a long time, i hope. Maybe in the future the IDM term will become irrelevant. Biggiesmartypants 20:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the genre list should stay as it has so far... with accurate genre names as defined in the reviews of Aphex Twin's albums over the years. Early albums are called Ambient,ambient techno, electronic music, drill and bass, acid house, acid techno etc. IDM is a great name but it belongs in the third party section of the article, because it's pretty much a WATMM/xltronic messageboard genre name invented by internet geeks on the IDM list. It doesn't really help any of the articles for the fans to add their name. Some guy added IDM to every bloody Aphex Twin record on here. There are only really a few (one or two) Aphex Twin records that haven't got a much better genre name to describe them (because that's the actual music genre that it is i.e. ambient or techno). You're going to call Selected Ambient Works II an IDM record? wtf. There are also huge problems with IDM, especially because it's pretty much an internet geek's name for general Warp Records stuff but is actually impossible to define as a music genre... Take a read of the Aphex Twin article... look at the history of Aphex Twin... the name IDM has little room to describe that stuff. Aphex Twin is the Electonic Music god, this is represented by a huge amount of articles... wikipedia is great but it's not a place for historical revision. I know YOU love the word IDM and want to change Aphex Twin's history to suit your fanboy WATMM/xltronic messageboard perspective... and you have the good reputation on wikipedia to back up your personal opinions with power... so whatever. I invite anyone who cares to join in here and have a chat about this but remember to stick to the topic of the genre list and not offtopic into Wikiballs. Thank you very much.


 * IDM is a genre name, like it or not. Furthermore I think most of Aphex Twin's stuff can definately be labeled with it. Personally i think IDM is most suited for more complex electronic 'dance' music. However i think Aphex Twin's sound is that consistent that you can apply the genre name to most of his music, together with other genre names. So I wouldn't mind the name for Selected Ambient Works 85-92 for instance.Biggiesmartypants 09:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * that is good opinions. from 1992 when i listened to aphex twin for the first time it was electronic music. i wrote for my homework many articles about aphex twin. every time aphex twin was electronic music Susume-eat 05:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with removing IDM from the genrelist. For me Aphex Twin's music has always been IDM and it has been labeled as such many times. Some people, including Aphex himself, dislike the term and therefor want to remove it from here too. Aphex not liking the term or the origins being some mailinglist doesn't make the genre less valid because it's widely used. Not naming IDM as one of Aphex Twin's genres makes the article weaker Biggiesmartypants 16:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

A discussion about this genre name seems useless, maybe there should be a vote. Biggiesmartypants 13:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Umm...there was one. Well, it was a straw poll and nothing official, but the consensus was to keep the genre. Scroll down to the bottom of this page for the discussion. dil 15:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh wow, thanks for making me see. I just thought the third discussion i'd read on this page would be the last. I'll put it on the list again then. Maybe all the discussion on this should be put together so this won't happen again. Though maybe the first poster in this block shouldn't have made another block as wellBiggiesmartypants 20:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

straw poll

 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

i am utterly sick of reverting this utterly trivial point. perhaps the only way to move forward and reach consensus is a straw poll, even though i'm not overly fond of them. so without further ado...

should the term IDM be included in the list of genres in this article? yes: as per my comments above. term is used in verifiable, noteworthy publications to describe richard's music. --Kaini 00:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

''' YES!!!!! are you happy?!! ''' What my over 40 sources show is that in the serious press, nobody describe Aphex Twin as IDM. He is described as Electronic Music, and some other. Underground maybe there is some people calls him IDM. I do not care. I do not care about this IDM article, it is a bad article, not good. I care about Aphex Twin. He is an Electronic Musician. Encyclopaedia articles should show this what the press call him, not what the underground call him. Someone will remove my Drill and Bass is a subgnre or Drum and Bass and replace Drum and Bass with IDM. I am so angry. You will remove Plug Luke Vibert. Why? He INVENT THIS GENRE. Aphex Twin infleunced by him!! Who knows here about this music for 15 years? Are you 20? I will vote YES keep your IDM in your genre list. In the article, Aphex Twin is "electronic musican", not "IDM hero" ok? Do you understand over 40 sources. Show me your IDM article I will laugh, it is a funny joke, fufufu. Please correct my detail but please don't remove my writing every time I will get sad please. I didnt load microsoft word. Please, be happy and have a sunny day. It's shining brightly, keep you warm. ☆☆☆☆ LOVE ☆☆☆☆--Mr Nobu. -Susume-Eat
 * Hello please ignore my angry. Only remember this, ☆☆☆☆ LOVE AND PEACE ☆☆☆☆. I read many wikipedia rules. Being friends is the best! Let's work together. ☆☆☆☆.

strong NO. i think it's pretty accurately described in the prose of the article as something that some fans use for warp records tunes. this is the aphex twin encyclopedia article, so we should take things a little more seriously and go with electronic music, ambient, techno, pretty much what everyone else has been saying. idm doesnt belong in that list really.
 * comment it is most definitely not what "everybody else has been saying", otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. --Kaini 05:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes. If I'm not mistaken, it seems the argument to remove this is based on IDM not being a genre, but a label a small populace of fans use. The intelligent dance music article defines IDM as a genre, and one which Aphex Twin is part of. If you seriously believe IDM is not a genre, start by trying to disprove this with reliable sources over at the IDM article, then start removing it from infoboxes. - Zeibura (Talk) 15:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

susume, it now seems you're removing the term from other articles using an anon identity [11]. wikipedia strongly discourages this and regards it as sockpuppetry. i would encourage you to not do this. again, WP:AGF, but it makes you look like a vandal. --Kaini 04:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

He said your sources are a bit off mate. Then you respond with a wikipedia-based source? Hoho. Bloody hell, I think you guys should all just take a chill pill, relax, smile, go get a drink of apple juice :D newsnight watcher.

Yes. While I find it amusing that the name of a genre came from the name of an obscure internet mailing list, it's gained a degree of credibility. Richard D. James, the lads of Autechre, as well as a host of other "electronic musicians" have, at one time or another, belonged to that mailing list. This concept that musical identity can only come from voices of authority on high withing the music press is a fat load of feces. For those that feel that IDM as the name of a genre is too obscure, let me point you to the subgenre Taqwacore under Punk Rock - it came from an obscure book by an obscure author and they can't even list a band that self-identifies as being taqwacore; there are plenty of artists that self-identify as being IDM. For those that feel that IDM covers too many bases in terms of styles, let me excise one of the opening paragraphs of Post-rock and then edit it a little bit:

"As with many musical genres, the term is arguably inadequate as a concise descriptor: for example, Aphex Twin and Autechre were among the most prominent artists of 1990s described as IDM, but their music has very little in common besides the fact that it is largely electronic. As such, the term has been the subject of backlash from listeners and artists alike."

Sound familiar? dil 10:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Genre
Per the information on the musician's information box, genre should only be listed at a "high level" and be general, not specific. It should be reduced to a smaller number of genres (some artists have simply been labeled "various"). The article itself can then have a section on the different genres, or it can be incoporated into the article (as changing over time) which is more interesting, and more useful, than just a long list. Denaar 22:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But then we wouldn't have the longest infobox on Wikipedia! Recury 12:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I really think this article is in no danger of losing that distinction, though other articles want to copy this one. Denaar 16:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have removed the genre list. It is very troublesome and prone to edit wars. The prose of the article can accomodate the genre names. I hope I have your support. Joyrex 21:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree and have reverted the genre information back to it's last state. Deleting good information just because it's "troublesome" isn't good practice. If someone has a problem with the genre list that hasn't been previously discussed, and in some cases voted on, let them suggest changes here so we call all be privvy to their thought processes. Otherwise, it's vandalism and should just be reverted. dil 17:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Should I add Taqwacore to the genre list?Joyrex 20:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It may be good information but it is already noted in the article. The trouble will come from the constant rearranging of the genre list. You can have a thousand votes but wikipedia is not a democracy and every so often a new consensus will be formed. My intention was not to disrupt anything, but actually reasonably aimed at stopping any further disruption. I hope I can win your support on this issue. Joyrex 20:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I like Denaar's suggestion about high-level genres. How about we just have "Electronic music" for the genre and that's it? Recury 20:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)