Talk:Apis cerana japonica

Other possible refs
Just a list of other possible refs for this article:
 * DEFENSIVE BEHAVIOUR OF Apis cerana F. AGAINST PREDATORY WASPS by Dharam Pal Abrol

Feel free to add more, or just incorporate the references. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 10:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Anything else out there besides their response to the giant hornet? That's an interesting bit of trivia, but Japan does have a honey industry, if dwarfed by western areas, and a species it's really not getting any entymology respect (?) by being treated as a stub for the legendary hornet. 74.218.61.152 (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Im sure there's plenty, but I don't have access to any Japanese sources which talk about it. Perhaps you could offer some? ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 06:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

"Ball"
Should "ball" necessarily be in quotes? I mean, if the reason it's in quotes is because the ball is not always a ball, I think it's kind of a sensible implication to make. Though, if you want to emphasize that it isn't exactly a ball, maybe a better way of wording the first use of would be like this: "As the hornet enters the nest, a group of approximately five hundred honeybees surround it, forming a large ball or clump, completely covering the hornet and preventing it from moving." Or simply using "clump" instead of "ball"... unless it's that the mass the bees form is necessarily roughly spherical. Then maybe "forming a large, roughly spherical clump". I suppose I just don't like the use of quotation marks here because it's reminiscent of scare quotes; though it's pretty clear that's not the intention here... and WP:MOS doesn't have an obvious application to this situation. I dunno, just a suggestion anyhow. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 11:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

i removed the quotes, as they're superfluous. the bees are manifestly forming a ball, regardless of whether or not it's perfectly spherical. pauli133 (talk) 13:48, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed move
I'm not particularly familiar in article naming for anthropods, but would it be better to redirect to Japanese Honeybee? It's a fairly distinct name, and is far more readable than Apis cerana japonica. Any objections? Iciac (talk) 08:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know that it's any more common. I've made it a redirect, though. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Asian Hornets vs Japanese Honeybees
From what I can gather, Asian hornets are never able to successfully launch an attack on a Japanese honeybee hive. What I wonder is why they still try to prey on Japanese honeybees, which have a foolproof defense mechanism?

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Potential merge
The most recent research says that "japonica" is among a mishmash of genetic lineages all contained within the primary gene pool of cerana, and not an independent taxonomic entity at all; there is nothing that separates it from mailand populations in Korea, and only a marginal distinction between it and lineages that extend all the way to Pakistan. However, it is unclear whether, in the 10 years since the proposal was made to synonymize all subspecies of cerana, the community of bee researchers and taxonomists has actually adopted this new concept of the species in which no subspecies are recognized. If that is the primary source of contention and confusion here, then the standard application of Wikipedia policy is to adopt the consensus view for the article, but cite the minority view; the most relevant policy is probably WP:UNDUE, which is worth reading if it is not familiar. The way to treat the article is therefore dependent on whether it is possible to determine what the majority view is: (1) if the majority view, as of 2020, is that there are no subspecies of Apis cerana, then all the articles referring to cerana subspecies should be merged or turned into redirects, and the section on taxonomy should be greatly reduced so all it says, essentially, is that while subspecies used to be recognized (citing Engel 1999), they are not considered valid any more (citing Radloff et al. 2010). (2) if the majority view, as of 2020, is that the subspecies are valid (i.e., if the Radloff et al. paper has not gained acceptance in the scientific community), then the portion of the article referring to the Radloff et al. analysis should cite it as representing a minority view, and the existing article(s) left otherwise largely intact. Dyanega (talk) 16:40, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Dismantling the nest
This article says "A. c. japonica will also dismantle an old hive before moving on to a new one" and it's followed by source [4] which points to Park, Doori; Jung, Je Won; Choi, Beom-Soon; Jayakodi, Murukarthick; Lee, Jeongsoo; Lim, Jongsung; Yu, Yeisoo; Choi, Yong-Soo; Lee, Myeong-Lyeol (2015-01-02). "Uncovering the novel characteristics of Asian honey bee, Apis cerana, by whole genome sequencing". BMC Genomics. 16 (1): 1. doi:10.1186/1471-2164-16-1. ISSN 1471-2164. PMC 4326529. PMID 25553907.

Aside from the fact I find it bizarre that bees would waste a considerable amount of energy to dismantle a beehive before basically absonding, it just doesn't make any sense from a point of return on investment. Honey bees are not superior beings but they are smart enough to do things that matter and dismantling a beehive before relocating is pointless. Also, the source does not say anything about dismantling and that keyword is not showing up in the text (I had a Ph.D in entomology check on that). Hence, the concept of dismantling the beehive, at least for the Apis cerana japonica, sound to me like a fabrication and it should not be part of this article.

ICE77 (talk) 06:45, 15 February 2024 (UTC)