Talk:Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction/Archive 2

Reference for Ancient Predecessors
Mad Max Trilogy

In the section on ancient predecessors there is a request for a source on how those things affected the Christian Eschatology. One source is "The Apocalyptic Imagination; An Introduction to Jewish Apocalyptic Literature", by John J. Collins (2nd Edition, Eerdmans Publishing 1998). I still have difficulty adding references and citations to articles, so could someone please add this? Otherwise I might have to learn something... Setitup (talk) 03:27, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Noteworthy French fiction
The French novel Ravage, by René Barjavel, could usefully feature in that article. Its theme of a new patriarcal society relates to the French occupation and reaction during the WW2 (the novel was written in 1942). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.115.66 (talk) 04:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The Survivors (BBC)
I find it odd that the BBC television show 'The Surviors' didn't get mentioned. It's a great fictional work...

A few comments
28 Days Later isn't exactly about the end of the world since it's clear in the end that only the UK is affected. That can perhaps be stated in a note afterwards or something?

Also, I find it strange that the new version of Dawn of the Dead is under Pandemic while Romero's original and his other movies are under "The decline and fall of the human race". I see the zombie infection as a pandemic in all of those movies and not an effect of social events or something.


 * Well, the Romero films aren't even sure if their mode of zombie is from cosmic radiation or some sort of virus. Since many of the corpses in the Romero films, aside from those torn apart, tend to reanimate without being bitten by zombies (the best examples would be in LOTD, with the hanging man reanimating and Blades, who was killed at the end of the original Dawn). The zombies in the new Dawn are definitely from a pandemic, as there are cases where people are killed uninfected humans, either accidentally or on purpose, and they do not reanimate.


 * I believe I added the 1978 Dawn as "Decline" as it is more of a decline of the human race, the reason being was that is that human society is on the cusp of the collapse at the beginning of the film and begins to gradually breakdown, as opposed to the pandemic striking overnight in the remake.


 * However, you are correct about 28 Days Later. I've mentioned this before. I've been thinking of moving this to "Various" or "To Be Catagorized". While it lacks the world-ending scope of many of the entries, I will not deny that it has apocalyptic elements.--YoungFreud 02:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I see your point about the Romero films. I don't think "28 days later" needs to be moved though, since there are other works in the list who seem to concentrate on the downfall of a specific geographical area. El-topo 21:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Apocalyptic vs. post-apocalyptic
It seems to me that we sould probably divide these two topics, it would resolve questions of what is viable on the list. technically, apocalyptic fiction is any fiction wherein the world and/or civilization is close to destruction, post-apocalyptic concerns what happens thereafter. (even though, ironically, for it to be a true apocalypse, there would have to be no one left at all; therefore post-apocalyptic is really not even a valid genre) at least this is my impression. thoughts? Gizzakk 18:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think any definition of apocalypse mandates the elimination of every single human being. Anyway, I think it makes sense to lump them together, what unites them is that the destruction of human civilization, whether ongoing or in the past, is a core theme. Christopher Parham (talk) 09:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Regarding the word: the apocalypse is religious/myth territory originally, so I'd say that definitely has to do with the elimination of all humans. Truly Apocalyptic fiction is a lot harder to find than Post-Apocalyptic. Mary Shelley's The Last Man, Neville Shute's On the Beach, Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle and (possibly, depending on your reading) Cormac McCarthy's The Road, for example. Thematically, Apocalyptic lit. deals with what it means to be human after the fall of society, no longer having the "luxury" of compassion, how to face an inevitable finish, etc. The vast majority of the literature is more accurately post-disaster or post-cataclysm. I'm doing a semester study of Apocalyptic (only) literature, and one thing I'd say so far is that there's a world of difference between humans with no hope of survival as a species and humans who have a chance at survival. On the one hand, keeping them together is relatively convenient since they both cover earth-shattering events, on the other hand I see them as distinct genres....Pakaal (talk) 20:41, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Title
Would anyone oppose moving this to Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction (ie. remove the "science")? It's pretty clear that a large number of these articles are not science fiction, at least how it's described on Wikipedia -- for instance The Day After. Christopher Parham (talk) 09:34, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

source?
"Due to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in its modern past, Japanese popular culture is rife with apocalyptic themes. Much of Japan's manga and anime is loaded with apocalyptic imagery." Anybody cite source?


 * Funny you should mention this because I've been meaning to expand it. The source actually comes from Little Boy by Takashi Murakami. I really want to expand the paragraph, because the chapter that has a discussion between Gainax founder Toshio Okada and Kaichiro Morikawa about how Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings and the subsequent American occupation resulted in a Japan basically reduced to a child-like status in the geopolitical sense, and caused the Japanese mass consciousness to transform things that were difficult to deal with into things that were cute, so they could be easier to cope with.


 * This in turn lead to the apocalyptic worldview of the otaku subculture, such as the radiation bombardment in Yamato and the devastation shown in Gundam and Macross. Later on, Aum Shinrikyo, who recruited from the ranks of otaku by interweaving their philosophy with the imagery shown in manga and anime, would later use sarin gas in an attempt to start their apocalypse. This would result in a paradigm shift away from the overtly apocalyptic imagery of previous anime to moé, a supercute and highly fetishized form that dominates the otaku subculture today.--YoungFreud 14:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Cowboy Bebop?
The anime Cowboy Bebop is about a team of bounty hunters in the future. In the year that the anime is set in, Mars and other planets have been colonized but Earth is desolate and most of it's residents have left it due to the Gate Accident many years earlier, causing a meteorite falls every two days, changing the landscape. Couldn't this therefore classify under post-apocalyptic? --Isequals 01:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Should already be there. If it not, it was once listed under Astronomic impact (meteorites). In fact, looking over the history, it was removed somewhere between June 13, 2005 and October 13th, 2005. --YoungFreud 01:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes I'd say that the series fits, in the sense that the setting is far post-apoc, seeing as several episodes are set on the Earth and the backstory is mentioned several times, but not during the event or near post event. Robovski 02:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Has someone been making hack-and-slash edits to the page then? I've just come into the discussion area to suggest some things that seemed a bit obvious for inclusion but aren't on the rather short main page... maybe they were there once and were zapped? Paring it down to just "nuclear oblivion" and "pandemics" is a bit rubbish, really. 193.63.174.10 (talk) 13:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Titles added
Post apocalypse (WW III) literature:
 * Magic City (Nelson S. Bond) a novella (?) set in post-atomic war New York City.
 * Star Man's Son (Andre Norton)
 * Dear Devil (Eric Frank Russell)

I'll try to think of some others; there are "scads" (many).

Also, if "After the fall of space-based civilization" is a category, the floodgates are wide-open. Just for a start, there's Against the Fall of Night and The City and the Stars (both by Arthur C. Clarke); The Mote in God's Eye (Niven &amp; Pournelle); The Dragon Masters (Jack Vance) (and arguably his The Last Castle); and Chad Oliver's poignant Transfusion.

OTOH, maybe we should just pick a few representative samples for each category, rather than trying to make up an exhaustive list. --ChrisWinter 21:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm really thinking of making a and off-shooting most of the list there. I'd also like to merge the cosy catastrophe article, much like the Ruined Earth article was. Much of that article could be posted in it's own section on the page or in the criticism section. BTW, I'm wondering if the Dying Earth subgenre might need to be moved here as well.--YoungFreud 05:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Titles of other media
Movies: mad max, waterworld and will smiths newest one? games: post apocalyptic is maybe a even more popular theme here than in any other media, for example the Fallout series


 * Whoever added this is most correct, the Fallout series is a prime example in popular culture of Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction given the entire basis is the idea of mutual assured destruction coming true worldwide, it also dabbles in cozy catastrophe given the survival of a limited number of people using the vaults within the fiction. Given it's rich history spanning three entire full length canonical games, it would be prime for adding, any opposed? Revrant (talk) 15:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Halo
This may just be me, but I do not see how halo is post-apocalyptic


 * Caught. I've gone ahead and corrected the entry. We've had it added occasionally because of competition with Half-Life 2, which is definitely an example of post-apocalyptic fiction, as it's set 10 years after an alien occupation.--YoungFreud 23:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * However, with the events of Halo 3, and the hints of a galaxy-wide apocalypse, the Halo franchise might actually be post-apocalyptic as well as apocalyptic. -- Nils Jeppe 14:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Torg
I'd say TORG should go into the religious / supernatural category, as the High Lords use supernatural forces to invade Earth (their powers derive from the Darkness Devices, which were created by the Nameless One to fight creation and possibility). -- Nils Jeppe 14:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Cell
I think Stephen King's novel Cell should be in this list (the story focuses on a sort of virus transmitter by cell phone signals, and anyone who uses a cell phone becomes insane and cannibalistic (zombie-ish, though these people are still alive, as in the movie 28 Days Later)). I'm not sure what category to put this novel under. --RazorICE 10:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Certainly apocalyptic considering modern civilization collapses in the story.

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

This article is a List
This article as it is should be renamed "List of Apocalyptic and Post Apocalyptic Fiction", and leave room for an article actually describing the genre, its origins, etc.--SidiLemine 13:37, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, there is an article at the top... but the list has certainly taken over since my edits last year. I would agree with separating the list into its own topic and leaving the article text here.  Dan 05:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll second the motion that the ever burgeoning list be split from the article. I'm probably more of a recent wikipedian than most here - How much of a consensus do we need before making the split? -- Rydra Wong 01:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll support the move of the list to a seperate page - so long as the very useful list is kept and linked from the main article. Robovski 02:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

List of doomsday scenarios
Could use votes to save this article, thanks MapleTree 22:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Alternate future
Just letting the editors of this article know that there is a discussion on Talk:Alternate future about the encyclopedicness of that article that I think editors of apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction might be interested in participating in. &mdash;Lowellian (reply) 21:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Importance
Post-apocalyptic fiction was a major genre back in the 1960s and '70s. I would rate this article as Mid importance. Avt tor 03:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Post-holocaust
Support, post-apocalyptic is more common terms and Holocaust has different connotations.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Support, it's the same topic under a different name. Noclevername 00:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Merged. Christopher Parham (talk) 02:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Atom Bomb in 1895???
"The first atomic weapon in fiction appeared in Robert Cromie's "The Crack of Doom", published in 1895" This line cannot be accurate...right?Mwv2 02:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is too. Try looking it up next time. I'd never heard of it before but a couple minutes with google confirmed that - at least as far as the wider internet is concerned - it's true. Not all that directly referenced, but still present as an idea, and some kind of apocalypse affects the planet. Sounds like quite a strong work of speculative fiction in it's proper sense, coming soon after the discovery of radioactivity and its determination as a pheomenon linked to atoms and subatomic particles; there's even inclusion of something resembling an electron microscope that's able to visualise individual atoms, apparently. 193.63.174.10 (talk) 13:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Apocalyptic fiction category
Why isn't there a Category:Apocalyptic fiction? Almost every film, book and TV series about an alien invasion fits the category. Also, all these of the "eschatological fiction" genre.--Nohansen 21:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * In Category:Science fiction genres there is Category:Post-apocalyptic fiction which gets a lot of what you're thinking about. --lquilter 21:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So Category:Post-apocalyptic fiction is meant for post-apocalyptic and apocalyptic fiction? If so, it should be renamed to encourage editors to use it.
 * Once, I placed this article I'm working in that category but decided against because it didn't seem right. The series is about the events leading to the end of the world, not the aftermath.--Nohansen 21:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

And where does the "Planet of the Apes" fit into post-apocalyptic fiction? I'm amazed this body of work has been overlooked —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.11.89 (talk) 10:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

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"Ancient predecessors" section
A paragraph containing completely unsourced research regarding Biblical apocalyptica was just re-added with the following rationale: "that PA is inspited by biblical acounts in uncontroversial, and that the Bible contains descriptions of them" Our inclusion criterion is not controversiality, it is verifiability. If a section remains unsourced despite being flagged for sources, then there's nothing wrong with removing it. Either sources should be found soon or this paragraph removed again. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Wooo, that is some crappy typing on the edit summary! I'll add something tonight. From my understanding, the verifiability policy means things need to be possible to verify, and only controversial points must be cited. The removal was the first time it has ever been challanged, and everyone that reads knows it to be true (and it needs about 10 minutes on google to get sources), which is why i re-added it.16:18, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope - sources should be provided for anything which is remotely non-obvious; controversial material can (and should) be removed on sight without prejudice, but any unsourced material is fair game if it doesn't look likely to be improved. Without sources, the paragraph reads like speculation. It'll be fine once it's sourced though. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Guess we just differ on what is obvious in this :-). But i started adding sources for biblical influence at least.Yobmod (talk) 17:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No Biblical material can be considered to be obvious. The thing is, however, 2000 years old, which should make finding reliable secondary sources for it pretty easy. Thanks for the refs; this looks good. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:34, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Some of that book is also on googlebooks, if anyone wants to add more stuff. I expect an entire book about Apoc fic would source the whole article up to FA.Yobmod (talk) 09:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Ancient Predecessors section is a mess, it sites one interesting half explained apocalypse story, then dedicates the rest of the article to the origin of the word in a roundabout way by siting every biblical story ever written. Obviously that's a bit exaggerated, but that's how it feels to read it. Nowhere did I see a mention of say the Ragnarok, or any other culture's ancient apocalypse. Hell, I don't even know about most of them, because they're rarely if ever mentioned at all, I know Judaism and Christianity are widespread, but other things happened that didn't have to do with them. What I'm trying to say is, a little diversification, with simple clean references would do this section a world of good. &#39;&#39;&#39;Aryeonos&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 03:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

History
I started this to improve the history or; well, anyway, I have an idea on something I think should be added to 'Ancient Predecessors':
 * Something on Central-American (Ancient-American, whatver) would be nice (even though technically they didin't influence much), since some of their myths involve... what? 7 acopalypses? Not science fictioney, I know, but I think this should at least be noted.

7h3 3L173 (talk) 05:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Major Problem
While surfing the internet I stumbled across something all you will find very interesting. http://encyclopedia.vbxml.net/Apocalyptic_and_post-apocalyptic_fiction if you clicked the link and looked at the page you will realize that either the author of this wiki page plagiarized this ENTIRE article or this web site plagiarized us. In either case, proper action must be taken. --Kurtcool2 (talk) 03:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Kurt - encyclopedia.vbxml.net turns out just to be a Wikipedia mirror site (look at the main page: encyclopedia.vbxml.net), which is perfectly legal, since WP content's licensed under the GFDL. Nothing to worry about. Gonzonoir (talk) 08:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gonzonir. --Kurtcool2 (talk) 22:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Becoming a list again
This article is becoming a list again, as people wander in and tack their favorite example on the end. For instance, the mention of I Am Legend is clearly an afterthought by someone who just saw the movie: no citation, no mention of the novel, no mention of Omega Man. Obviously unresearched. dbw (talk) 19:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed (i removed it for now). I made the sub-headings in order to give the article a structure, but most editors seem to see the sub-titles as an invitation to add examples, rather than expanding on the discusion of how and why these common themes keep getting used. I am Legend (the book) could be an important example, but even a cited addition that includes reference to the book and all the films (is there a TV series too?) and a review calling it post aopocalyptic would not change the basic fact that the article simply does not need any more example if they are not put into context. (Also, i think the book and films gave different causes for the plague - the book gives a vague belief of the characters that it involes viruses and crop-spraying etc.Yobmod (talk) 10:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Could I add a couple under different thematic areas than the 2-and-a-half that are currently there, then? Just as genre examples? Though I dislike it personally, Will Self's "The Book of Dave" is a good example of what may become a growing genre (it certainly can't be the first?) - remnant human society in a flooded world (not as bad as the laughable only-the-Himalayas-remain effect in "Waterworld" though...), post apocalypse-level climate change. And the Matrix and Terminator series as film examples - or take your pick of novels - for "rise of the robots", where human society and much of natural life on earth is thoroughly exterminated and/or enslaved by various means; nuclear attack (possibly terminator can just go in the nuclear war one..), all out conventional warfare and hunting, exotic devices that blacken the sky, etc... or even Grey Goo in things like the Day the Earth Stood Still (recent remake version), though taking it further than that movie did. Not to mention the many interesting ways the earth has been effectively sterilised in Doctor Who (inc its novels), such as Daleks bombarding the surface such to reduce the continents to lava (reminiscent of the "glassing" effect of Exterminatus in Warhammer 40000 novels/codex backstories); see also novels (films?) like The Planet Eaters which did that, but by consuming the Earth from inside.
 * Guess what I'm really trying to say is we maybe don't need such long sections to the list, but we need more of them to showcase the variety inherent in the wider genre. 193.63.174.10 (talk) 13:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Yellow Peril?
I removed this from the "nuclear apocalypse" section, where it does not belong. To be honest, though, I do not know where it does belong, as it does not seem post-apocalyptic to me.


 * Post-apocalyptic literature was not as widespread in communist countries since the government prohibited depictions of the nations falling apart. However, some depictions of similar-themed science fiction were accepted by government censors, Recently, Wang Lixiong's Yellow Peril was banned in the People's Republic of China because of its depiction of the collapse of the Communist Party of China, but has been widely pirated and distributed in the country.

Anyone have any ideas of what should be done with this? ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 15:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

The Road is in the wrong section
The majority of readers and critics see the devastation in 'The Road' as the result of climate change, not nuclear war. Wether this is right or not, the disaster is never spacified as nuclear war so it shouldnt be listed as a post-nuclear novel. Pedantic i know, but still. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.2.46.174 (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know if the "majority" of readers and critics saw the devastation in 'The Road' as the result of climate change; I certainly did not get that impression. However, there is no reason to think it is the result of nuclear war either. As far as I can tell, the author made a deliberate decision to not specify the cause of the devastation. Whatever the cause is irrelevant, as the book is fundamentally about the journey of a man and his son through a dead and unfriendly world. Unlike many of theother books that have been placed in this genre, 'The Road' makes no attempt to examine a particular disaster and its effects on a speculative world. Benjaminlobato (talk) 11:01, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It should definitely not be in the nuclear war section, one of the points in the book is that the cause for destruction is not specified! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.62.213.110 (talk) 07:28, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The entry in that section clearly says that the cause is unclear. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 15:46, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * While I won't use "majority" etc., I will say that a number of searches online tend to point to the story being of a post-nuclear war world. One of the essays under "Further reading" in the Wikipedia article for The Road specifically notes nuclear war as the premise, and the description in the novel, "The clocks stopped at 1:17. A long shear of light and then a series of low concussions (p. 45, Kindle edition) strongly suggest a nuclear missile strike and EM pulse.Pakaal (talk) 21:16, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Reverting edit on Post Apocolyptic Fiction
Hi Everyone. I don't want to cause a fuss, but I am wondering how adding post peak oil could be considered pushing a point of view. There are many works that deal with what happens when oil runs out. The movie the Road Warrior movies were about that, so I think was the Kevin Costner Movie the Postman. The questionable quality of those, might be an issue but I would think that that scenario would qualify as a kind of post apocolyptic fiction. I frankly never even considered that there might be "official" sub genres in this area. Is there some Science Fiction governing bodie that decides these things? However even if there is, it seems to me that the purpose of the article is to help people see the different kinds of themes that authors pursue when speculating about the end of civilization as we know it. Not that I am a fan, but it would seem that books like the "Left Behind" series are part of this genre. I ask these things in all seriousness. I went to the talk page of Dream Guy and he has a kind of prickly message that had me think that I might have been mistaken for someone elese. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 23:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My two cents: I think the Kunstler book you added is a perfectly reasonable addition to the page, though I'd suggest finding a third-party source to demonstrate that others have identified it as post-apocalyptic fiction. I agree also with DreamGuy, though, that we don't need a link to Peak oil in the "See also" section. Peak oil isn't necessarily an apocalyptic scenario; placing it there, without commentary, looks as though we're asserting that it has some fundamental relationship to the topic of post-apocalyptic fiction, which I don't think is true. The rest of the "see also" links refer to other fiction genres or to topics of apocalypticism in general, not to specific scenarios.
 * Instead, I've wikilinked "Peak oil" in the sentence about the Kunstler novel. There, it'll help people unfamiliar with the topic to learn more, without claiming that it's of general importance to the genre. How's that? Gonzonoir (talk) 08:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, if you mean the message at the top of DreamGuy's talk page, I'm sure that's not aimed at you. It's a general notice visible to anyone who lands on the page. Gonzonoir (talk) 08:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Gonzonoir- thank you for the clarification. I get your point about having the see also be about this fiction genre. Thank you for taking the time to clarify. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 21:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Modern Technology
"The Matrix" is listed under "Failure of Modern Technology", but shouldn't it be in a category like "Uprising of Modern Technology" or "Robot Apocalypse"? (Along with a movie like "Terminator"). Also, shouldn't there be a "Zombie Apocalypse" section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.141.148 (talk) 22:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal
This article seemed to me to be a better destination for searches regarding doomsday films. That other article lacks cites and seems to be a general list, the films mentioned within would all seem to logically fall under the umbrella of this article. Any thoughts? Alastairward (talk) 21:21, 20 September 2009 (UTC)


 * My only concern is that actual literature wasn't buried under an undue landslide of trivia about minor doomsday movies. Simonm223 (talk) 21:31, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There isn't much of that in doomsday film. Most of the content at the page should probably be merged to the list, while the title can be redirected here. I'd be more sympathetic to it as a standalone article if it made a case that the topic was treated substantially differently in film versus other media, since it would be harder to incorporate film-specific treatment into this article. Overall I support the proposal. Christopher Parham (talk) 15:22, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

See Also Section Revision?
After the link to "Survivalism" in the See Also section, many of the other elements would be appropriately listed in the main text, or removed entirely.

The Fallout Game series could instead be a link to the section "2.5 Games" in the "List of apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction" page.

Tank Girl, Mad Max, Fist of the North Star and MD Geist are all pop culture examples of post-apocalyptic fiction and have appropriate sections already in the main body. Though I admit MD Geist's synopsis has me confused as to what is actually going on (as it doesn't read like the actual genre).

Reading the synopsis of Robotech: Invasion shows that the material isn't about an apocalypse/Armageddon/post-apocalypse as it is about an Alien Invasion. As Alien Invasion science-fiction isn't entirely covered in this article it should probably be removed. Since War of the Worlds is included, I could see how someone would add Robotech: Invasion, but the Alien Invasion subgenre being so developed, there is probably more of a case to remove both references instead.

99.65.197.20 (talk) 07:18, 13 February 2010 (UTC)Nathan

Star Man's Son, 2250 A.D
In this article it says: "Andre Norton wrote one of the definitive, post apocalyptic novels, Star Man's Son (AKA, Daybreak 2250), published in 1952, where a young man, Fors, begins an Arthurian quest for lost knowledge, through a radiation ravaged landscape, with the aid of a telepathic, mutant cat. He encounters mutated creatures, "the beast things," which are possibly a degenerated form of humans."

Who decided this is one of the definitive post-apocalyptic novels? If it's such an important book why is it not in print with the dozens of other novels written by Andre Norton? A new copy of this book cannot be found anywhere I've searched. Does anyone know of the actual importance/relevance of "Star Man's Son, 2250 A.D" as it seems it is most commonly called? 67.169.57.180 (talk) 10:44, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

"Original research," I'm sure, but I always took the beast things to be mutant rats. 24.61.4.237 (talk) 02:20, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Some novels with a "feminist" tinge
Two fine examples of this sub-genre in literature are Memoirs of a Survivor by Doris Lessing and Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler. Of course, I know most Wiki users don't read books as main references are films and videogames. Anyway, it makes sense the mention to Jack London's "The scarlet plague" as his story anticipated all the typical stuff of the sub-genre. Indeed, the article is becoming a low-quality list. 153.109.42.97 (talk) 21:03, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Prefixes
I don't understand completely the prefixation in english, if there are rational rules (I'm spanish native and I know very well its rules; only a few of english), but why do you write post-apocalyptic and not postapocalyptic, which is, at my point of view, the correct form. I will thank a reply. Greetings, An unknown user. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.38.24.132 (talk) 14:13, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be a dialect and style manual thing, according to the hyphen article. Generally hyphen is preferred in British English and omitted in American English; but there are some specific rules defining cases where hyphenation is mandatory - see Hyphen. Arloz (talk) 16:18, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Proposal - Increase the list of causes of a post-apocalyptic event at the beginning of this article.
I'd like to increase the list the causes of a post-apocalyptic event at the beginning of this article. I believe this is necessary due to the wide array of scenarios that have evolved in modern fiction. I've tried recently but my edits were removed on the basis that they need to be discussed first. Thus, I welcome any comments or concerns for this proposal.(Hyperionsteel (talk) 20:17, 14 February 2011 (UTC))
 * I haven't reverted your edits, but what examples are you suggesting? The article could be endlessly long if you consider every possibility.  Many would be covered as generic themes ("natural disaster") as opposed to multiple specific ones (massive earthquakes, global warming, etc) MartinezMD (talk) 21:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok. To be more specific, I was going to add examples from this article Risks to civilization, humans and planet Earth that can be found in Post-Apocalyptic fiction (e.g. Ecological disaster, Technological Singularity, Dysgenics, Economic collapse.(Hyperionsteel (talk) 00:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC))


 * I would suggest putting technological singularity in with failure of modern tech and rework/retitle the section. And I think the post-peak oil topic is really a combination of tech and economic failure, but at the moment don't think I would do a good job at reworking those items.  I do think ecological disaster and dysgenics are very valid subjects to cover indepedent of others.  You should probably wait to hear from a couple of other editors to avoid people reverting your work if there was a pattern of it before. MartinezMD (talk) 03:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

The Death of Grass
The Death of Grass (1956) could be listed as a early epidemic environnemental disaster. Lacrymocéphale 22:04, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good one. Actually, a lot of Christopher could be listed. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 22:17, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Video games
Should video games be here under fiction, or in a separate article? &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 20:45, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Dystopia
Looking through the list, I began to think that including dystopias as a sub-genre should be considered. I haven't researched the idea, but I noticed Anthem (a dystopia) made the Post-apocalyptic list. I would add Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four and also Brave New World. Small group but very indicative of a sub-genre of Post-apocalyptic fiction that I re-read. There are probably many others. Comments?Jacqke (talk) 00:09, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, Brave New World and 1984 aren't set after apocalypses, so they don't belong here. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 19:43, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Addition of The Postman by David Brin
The novel The Postman written in 1985 by David Brin should be added into the post 1900 war section. Set in a post limited-nuclear war America, it fits perfectly under that heading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.94.214 (talk) 18:55, 28 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Added, thanks. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 17:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

It's a list yet again
Raising this for the third time: the article is an example farm. This exact same issue was previously raised in 2006 and 2009, and apparently nothing was done either time. Either delete the bulk of the "examples", or split them off into a list article. The article as it stands says very little about the subject, and is just a fancruft dump. 12.233.146.130 (talk) 02:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Reorganize
To better avoid the issue of this just being a list of different works w/ post apocalyptic and apocalyptic fic, order by type of media instead of by date? Or at least, break up the dates into smaller sections besides pre/post 1900.

There's a lot of potential for a good discussion, but there really needs to be a section on themes, the history of the subsubgenre, and then maybe major NOTABLE works, everything else can always be listed on another page or made as a category.

Tons of research/writing exists on this topic, the effort just needs to be expended to get it on here.MSK 04:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meagansk (talk • contribs)

Some 'surreal' examples of Post-Apocalyptic fiction

This is just personal interpretation, but I thought I'd throw it out there. It always struck me that the following films and short story used themes or aesthetics of post-apocalypse, while not generally being about them (pardon me if they are already in the article and I missed them):

I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream (Harlan Ellison)

Eraserhead (David Lynch)

Tetsuo the Iron Man (Shinya Tsukamoto)

Begotten (E. Elias Mehrige) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.199.220 (talk) 23:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Post-Apocalypse in Surrealist works
This is just personal interpretation, but I thought I'd throw it out there. It always struck me that the following films and stories used themes or aesthetics of post-apocalypse, while not generally being about them (pardon me if they are already in the article and I missed them):

The Atrocity Exhibition (J.G. Ballard)

I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream (Harlan Ellison)

Eraserhead (David Lynch)

Tetsuo the Iron Man (Shinya Tsukamoto)

Begotten (E. Elias Mehrige) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.199.220 (talk) 23:15, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

War of the Worlds
I would doubt that The War of the Worlds has become famous "due to the famous radio adaptation of the novel by Orson Welles on his show, The Mercury Theatre on the Air". It was famous amongst those who could read long before American radio listeners heard the dramatization.203.184.41.226 (talk) 07:28, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Is it necessarily a subgenre of sci-fi?
I believe the theme is based on catastrophe, but is it necessarily always sci-fi? because the science in sci-fi is not the same as our science so if there's a post apocalyptic fiction movie or book but not showing any sign of differing science, is it really sci-fi? Normally it is, but I'm just bringing up the unique cases--Taeyebaar (talk) 22:56, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There's definitely fantasy post/apocalyptic lit, and could easily by mundane or even historical post/apocalyptic lit. But still, a lot of work with the primary focus of the aftermath of an apocalypse tend to be sci-fi.  Still, if there's WP:RSs saying it's something independent, I wouldn't object to reclassifying.  Ian.thomson (talk) 23:07, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree--Taeyebaar (talk) 03:45, 22 August 2014 (UTC)