Talk:Apogee Entertainment

ScubaVenture
I removed this as it's not an Apogee game. George Broussard did write the game while in the employ of Apogee, but it was never intended to be an Apogee title. It was written and published by Softdisk. The reason for this was that they'd let id Software out of their contract with them so they could do games for Apogee instead.

I should know, I work here at Apogee - this is Joe Siegler, webmaster for the company. :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dopefish (talk • contribs).

Grammer
Sorry Teklund for my wording, i'm dyslexic and tend to write very convolutedly, however I did include new information with my contribution such as;
 * Emphaisisng Apogee's role in the wide spread adoption of Shareware.
 * The small list of large publishers that quickly adopted the model and for the most part utitlised the same BBS.
 * Inclusion of Software Creations BBS, a staple of Apogee for many years, and the primary method of distrubution used by many people in the day (before Shareware CD's).
 * I also wanted to remove the term "Spin-off" when describing Apogees two subsidiaries, 3D Realmas and Pinball Wizard.... it was rather unencyclopedic.
 * Include an introduction that says immediately what they are known for popularising Shareware, Wolf3D, Keen, Nukem and a quick note they operate as 3D Realms.

Now I have spent about 2 hours going over my new new alterations to make it seem less convoluted. Your welcome to revert my alterations as long as you include the above 5 points yourself. Oh btw, as for my headings, Shareware and Background, you can remove them if you want.. I just felt that their was two logical sections that may at a later date be expanded. But, by all means remove them, just keep the facts.

Thanks, im flexible though, if you dont like any/all of my 5 points we can discuss it :). - UnlimitedAccess 9 July 2005 15:20 (UTC)


 * Sorry for being ignorant. The article is much clearer now with the addition of headings and a better introduction, and I agree with all five of your points above. I did remove id Software from the list of shareware distibutors similar to Apogee since as far as I know they distributed most of their games via Apogee... but I don't know much about that, so I might as well be wrong. So if I'm wrong, you may want to put that back in. Teklund 9 July 2005 18:10 (UTC)
 * Nice work their! About the id/Apogee thing their earlier stuff like Wolf3D was released as an Apogee title, but their later titles like Doom were released under the id software name.. I will stick it back in, and see how it goes. Thanks again. - UnlimitedAccess 9 July 2005 18:19 (UTC)

Quiz games
Are The Computer Quiz, The Astronomy Quiz and The IBM BASIC Quiz also Apogee games? Or are those Softdisk games / Scott Miller games? 81.70.123.72 11:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * MobyGames says they are all Softdisk games. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Mobygames is wrong. What a shock.  Star Trek Trivia was an Apogee game.  Star Trek: TNG Trivia was originally a Micro/FX game (George's company before Apogee), and when he joined Apogee, it became an Apogee game, and then Paramount stepped in and stopped both.  Dopefish 16:30, 15 August 2006 (UTC) (Joe Siegler, Apogee/3DR).

I'm talking about The Computer Quiz, The Astronomy Quiz and the IBM BASIC Quiz, not the Star Trek trivia games. 81.70.123.72 10:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, as I said, MobyGames, the best reference I have, say they are all SoftDisk games. If it is wrong, so be it. You can also try Home of the Underdogs if you like. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm a doofus. You did say the pre-Apogee stuff.  Dopefish 01:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)  :)

Vandals
Bleh, sorry for the vandalism earlier. I'm kind of the caretaker of the dorm IP address and some people think it's funny to edit entries for fun and get everyone banned from contributing. Shadowrun 05:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge Apogee Software into this page
Why do we need two different pages for the same company just because they changed their name? The Apogee Software page should be merged into this one as soon as possible. -- Grandpafootsoldier 02:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Fully agreed. The current state is very confusing. --seifip 14:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, merged. Sega381 16:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with the merge but it is a little more compelx because Apogee Software is the parent company which owns the labels, Pinball Wizard, 3D Realms and perhaps others. 3D Realms just became the dominant label and all others fell away including the parent company's brand Appogee. - UnlimitedAccess 22:48, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about it, and though the merge is ok, probably the article should be called Apogee Software, as it is the real company name still, even though it may be known by other names...Sega381 00:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Technically the on paper name of our company is Apogee Software, Ltd. 3D Realms is a dba, as is Pinball Wizards, although we "use" the name 3D Realms, despite it not being the actual legal name of the company. (Joe Siegler from 3DR) Dopefish 16:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

So which is the "proper" name for the company then (and the correct name for this page)? As you are probably the only Apogee/3D Realms employee on here you would naturally be the best person to make such a decision. ;) -- Grandpafootsoldier 08:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Some corrections
There is no source for them publishing Extraction Point: Alien Shootout and Duke Nukem Critical Mass is not cancelled, indeed they just announced a release date for that game: http://www.apogeesoftware.com/archives/245.

88.85.52.191 (talk) 23:46, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Source for developers
Rise of The Triad iPhone: [], [] Rise of The Triad 2013: [], [], [] Duke Nukem Critical Mass: [] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.85.52.191 (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Some inaccuracies
There are few inaccuracies and missing information in this article. For some reason Rise of The Triad for iPhone was removed list of games. 3D Realms's role in Rise of The Triad Remastered(See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPFS99n4X2I and here: https://3drealms.com/catalog/rise-of-the-triad-remastered_241/) is not noted and the company is now a corporation as can be seen here: https://sec.report/CIK/0001817359

Apogee is back (To Icewelder)
There recently were announcements of Apogee being "back" and the like. They got a new website: https://www.apogeeent.com/. Their first devblog is also written under that headline: https://www.apogeeent.com/devblog/apogeeisback (and notice it lists Scott Miller as a founder of the company) this should all be seen in relation to Scott Miller and Terry Nagy setting up a new corporate entity as can be seen here: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1817359/000181735920000002/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

By the way technically when Apogee was first re-launched the legal entity was not actually called "Apogee Software LLC", as can be seen here: https://web.archive.org/web/20110707152332/http://www.apogeesoftware.com/

This article treats the two corporate entities as one and the same, just as the article on Slipgate is written as if it was the same as Interceptor. I am pretty sure that Scott Miller was also a founder of the old LLC(But I can no longer find the public records), but he is definitely a founder of the corporation that people reading this article are most likely to want information about. So I will be reverting the removal of his name as a founder — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.18.234.185 (talk) 14:25, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The only source we have that reports on the founding of this entity (Apogee Entertainment/Apogee Software, LLC) in-depth is the Polygon feature, which credits solely Nagy as the founder. Miller is not mentioned as a founder anywhere until these 2020 legal papers and the new website. There, he is portrayed as the "founder of Apogee" as though Apogee Entertainment and Apogee Software, Ltd. (3D Realms) were the same. The original LLC lists only Nagy as its director and agent, alongside "manager" (CEO) Dan Lutter. Slipgate Ironworks is handled in the same way that the original founder of that company—Frederik Schreiber—is the only one listed, as him being the founder of the original company is verifiable, even if they switched corporate entities due to purely legal reasons in the meantime with another person helping with the second incorporation.

Some more things
This article is entitled "Apogeee Entertainment". The article also beings by saying "Apogee Entertainment, *formerly* Apogee Software, LLC" (Emphasis mine). So clearly this article is about Apogee Entertainment. and as the SEC filing shows Apogee Entertainment is the company that Scott Miller co-founded with Terry Nagy. Also all of Apogee's games on GOG are listed as being published by Apogee Entertainment: https://www.gog.com/games?devpub=apogee_entertainment&page=1&sort=popularity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.18.234.185 (talk) 14:31, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * They changed the publisher name on GOG. The games were originally published by what is now 3D Realms (ex. Apogee Software, Ltd.), not Apogee Entertainment (ex. Apogee Software, LLC), and we generally do not list republished games on publishers' articles unless highlighted by reliable secondary sources. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 08:02, 28 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I only pointed this out in anticipation of someone insisting on having separate Wikipedia articles for the LLC and the corporation. and by the way Apogee Software Ltd still exists as a subsidiary of 3D Realms Entertainment ApS, see page 16 of the 2020 financial statement(You can use Google Translate if need be) that you can access here: https://cvrapi.dk/virksomhed/dk/3d-realms-entertainment-aps/36912197

A lot of missing history
I’m one of many web searchers who are looking for the original releases by Apogee Software then get redirected to this new Entertainment page. This is a suggestion for someone to merge or link it to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_Apogee_Software_video_games and other Apogee Software content on Wikipedia 86.97.84.174 (talk) 09:17, 1 December 2022 (UTC)


 * You might be looking for List of 3D Realms games. The article here only covers the games released by Apogee Entertainment, the entity established in 2008. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 09:23, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * 3D Realms was a brand under Apogee Software. All of those games under the 3DR label were actually Apogee Software (now Apogee Entertainment) games. The 3DR of today is now a company discrete from Apogee, but the titles released under its label are Apogee titles. Apogee Software -> Apogee Entertainment is the same company.
 * So, all of the classic 3DR titles in that link should be moved under Apogee. Videogameeditor123 (talk) 20:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No, they shouldn't. Claiming that Apogee Entertainment, an entity created in 2008, somehow developed/published games in the 1990s is simply anachronistic. Games developed by 3D Realms should be credited to 3D Realms. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 20:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Scott Miller on Twitter
Link to Tweet:


 * Surprise surprise, Wikipedia has a lot of things wrong regarding Apogee's history/legacy/etc, so I'm looking for someone who knows their way around that platform and can help us get the facts right. We will pay, too. Anyone know someone who might be able to help?

Hmm... Popcornfud (talk) 13:14, 14 July 2023 (UTC)