Talk:Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney/Archive 1

Title
Should this be renamed to the official US name, aka Ace Attorney: Apollo Justice instead of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney? I've seen it on more than on occasion being listed as this. :\ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.70.158.78 (talk) 16:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, because it's Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney LuGiADude (talk) 15:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Capcom's site list the game as Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. Therefor, the english name is Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. - forteshadow (talk) 21:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Spoilers?
Isn't the fact that Minuki is Naruhudo's daughter...a spoiler? :\ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.70.158.78 (talk) 16:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

It is. Damn you, Wikipedia, you just spoiled me completely. Fuck this. - Chef —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.66.234.124 (talk) 10:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Content disclaimer - Wikipedia contains spoilers. --M ASEM 14:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That needs to be on there, because the information about the first case's killer is right out there in plain sight. Didn't Wikipedia articles once have markers on them prior to spoiler information?76.182.218.114 (talk) 21:01, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The spoiler policy has been changed recently, and is covered by the general site disclaimers at the bottom of every page. --M ASEM 21:14, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you guys should do like I do, and not even visit the article about a game you're interested in until you've bought it and beaten it. There's plenty of other resources on the internet you can look at without being spoiled. Jeez! (Pvegeta) 16:06, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Time frame confusion
Phoenix Wright takes place in 2016-17, because DL-6 was in 2001 and PW's fourth case is 15 years later. Justice For All is in 2017-18, GS3 in 2018-19. GS4 is in 2025, isn't it? So doesn't that place GS4 six years later, not seven? At least, that's what it says at Court Records. --Impossible 09:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The games are only counted one year at a time, despite the fact that they roll over into the next year, so that they don't have to worry about changing the characters' birthdays in-game and can do so all at once between games. So for the development team, GS3 takes place in 2018 as far as they're concerned. Blademaster Orca 18:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Remake?
The article says that Gyakuten Saiban 4 is actually Gyakuten Saiban 2... does this mean that it's a remake of Gyakuten Saiban 2 for the DS? If that's the case, how is it different from Justice for All? Tim Dean 02:50, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Gyakuten Saiban 4 isn't Gyakuten Saiban 2, unless 2 = 4. 4 is a brand new game in development for the DS, it's not Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney or Justice for All, which are respectively 1 and 2 remade. --Impossible 13:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Tim said this because I mistyped, making it seem like I was saying GS4 is a remake of GS2. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Confusing Paragraph
Can someone reword this paragraph so its a bit easier to understand? I'd do it myself but I can't figure out what it's supposed to mean.

Despite misconceptions created by IGN, Gyakuten Saiban 4 is not Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All, but rather, Gyakuten Saiban 2 is the one being remade.
 * ...How in the world is that confusing? IGN created the misconception that PWAAJfA = GS4, when it is actually GS2. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I still don't get it. "When it is actually GS2" What is the "it" you're referring to?  GS4 or PWAAJFA?  The sentence in the article just doesn't make semantical sense.  If you could clarify it for me, I'll be more than happy to fix it up.  --Polkapunk 13:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Despite misconceptions caused by an IGN article, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All is not a remake of Gyakuten Saiban 4, but is rather a remake of Gyakuten Saiban 2.

Does that make sense? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

'Ok, that's a whole lot better! Thanks! Just one more question: did IGN say that Justice for All was going to be a remake of GS4 or that it was the subtitle of GS4? Anyone got a link? --Polkapunk 20:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * IGN has said many things about the series - that PWAA = GS3 (false), that PWAAJfA = GS4 (not a subtitle, but is the fourth game instead of a remake of the second), and that PWAAJfa = GS5 (and get this - they said it in the same line that they said it was GS4! PS: GS5 isn't real, they made it up). - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's about time we remove that paragraph. Justice for All has been out in most territories for a couple of months now, so confusion at this point would be minimal. That, and this game's coming out in less than a month as it is, so the blurb about it being confused with the second game would then be totally unnecessary. Blademaster Orca 16:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Multilingual Version?
Just a thought, the re-release of Gyakuten Saiban 1 for the DS was bilingual to english and japanese. Does this mean that there's a strong chance Gyakuten Saiban 4 will also be bilingual? I just thought what the implications of this seeing as GS2 is about to be re-released in english as PW: Justice for All, meaning english fans of GS/PW wouldn't play the games in its usual sequential order (if GS4 and PW:JFA comes out before there's any GS3 remake). --takagawa-kun 10:45, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe so, as PWAA-JFA's Japanese version also has the English translation (though it's going to be changed in the actual American release as it features quite many typos and so.) --85.217.40.166 17:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It's quite likely that a GS3 remake will come out later, and Capcom will hold off on releasing GS4 to other regions until after the GS3 remake comes out there. —Typhlosion 17:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I remember hearing on Court Record that GS4 will only be in Japanese...which means we can't all import it early D: Which I totally would have done with Ace Attorney and Justice For All had I the chance.—ウルタプ 03:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It has been confirmedby people that have the game, that there is now Multi Language Function in GS4.(Mario66 01:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC))
 * Um...can you give an actual source? A report by a site, or something? Because everywhere I look...even now...says only Japanese.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ 01:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wha? I said...oh, oops. Sorry, I ment "noT" not "now". Sorry for that. (Mario66 23:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC))

Contradiction
At one part in the article it states that this is the first game in the series to not feature Phoenix Wright however later he is listed as a returning character. Does this mean that he will be featured but not playable - if so then I think the first statement should be changed. Guest9999 01:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)]]
 * It says it doesn't feature him as the main character.—ウルタプ 02:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry my mistake - must have skipped over it after the brackets with the Japanese name. Guest9999 14:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)]]

Major edits
Now that the actual game is out, should someone edit the article to note that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.229.124.71 (talk) 04:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Of course not! --85.217.46.181 20:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Reason for reverting name order to western
I reverted the name order back to western order due to the provisions in WP:MOS-JP due to this section.

"Names of modern figures For a modern figure (a person born from the first year of Meiji (1868) onward), always use the Western order of given name + family name for Western alphabet, and Japanese style family name+ +given name for Japanese characters. For example:

Junichiro Koizumi (小泉 純一郎 Koizumi Jun'ichirō, born January 8, 1942) is a Japanese politician … Macron usage in the name of a modern figure should adhere to the following, in order of preference:

Use the official trade name if available in English/Latin alphabet; Use the form found in a dictionary entry from a generally-accepted English dictionary; Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world; Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in any other popular Latin-alphabet-using language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, and Dutch, or variations); or If none of the above is available, use the macronned form. "

Based on that I moved it because the characters were not born before that date. --64.229.73.44 02:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Should Puns be Included?
Well, most people now that the names in the series are all puns on things(ie:Penny Nickals from the first game is, well, Penny & Nickals). So should the characters listed have a thing explaining their puns or not? Just a sugestion.
 * I would say no since that would likely be removed as unsoured trivia quite quickly. --67.68.155.33 02:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * So? The pokemon articles constantly do this. Almost all of them have a little blurb on their name's pun.(Mario66 02:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC))

"Apollo Justice" and WP:CRYSTAL
I understand where one might see that the trademarking of "Apollo Justice" by Capcom would be high speculation of a future event, eg as per WP:CRYSTAL and not appropriate. However, this speculation is not original research: this was a news bit widely reported across gaming sites yesterday when it was discovered. I would say that it's still valid to include it in this article, but making sure it's very clear this is not the result of a WP editor speculation, but instead the gaming media speculation and basically an industry rumor which can be cited, and by that assessment, it actually passes the criteria for WP:CRYSTAL as I'm reading them. As long as the entry includes "It is possible that the lead character in the English translation will be called 'Apollo Justice', based on a trademark filing by Capcom on suchandsuch a date...", it's very clear that it's not a hard fact that the lead will be called this, but is relevant to the article.

However, I would not yet go trying to change this page's name to "Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney", because it is still a rumor and not even yet announced for an English release, so there's no way to predict how it will be named here. --Masem 13:42, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. In fact, I would remove the rumored name entirely, until we get some sort of official confirmation from Capcom --YuushaFan 13:21 7 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I notice that the name is up now but I can't change it because the page is semi preotected. Unless there has been a recent change all that we know is that the name was tradmarked with no other info. Assuming it applies to this game and to one particular character based only on the tradmarks existance is a clear violation of WP:OR. It should be removed until somthing official comes out regarding this name. --67.71.78.206 04:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. If "Apollo" IS the official name, it will be put back in. -- YuushaFan 16:07, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Repeated Vandalism
Page has been repeatedly vandalised -- just making note. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Magistratus (talk • contribs).

Someone replaced the line "he is no longer an attorney but instead plays piano and poker in a restaurant called Borhachi" with "he is a hobo who gives handjobs on the street for money" in the Phoenix Wright description. - DeadByDagger 16:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I also found some vandalism and excised the offending line, even though this page is protected. -YuushaFan 18:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Small warning. The protection was only for one day so it has been lifted so I removed the tag. You may want to keep an eye out to see if that was long enough. --67.68.153.69 06:01, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Apollo Justice: possible confirmation?
According to this article, in a list of games that Minae Matsukawa has worked on it lists "Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney". Does this count as confirmation of the name? It is from Nintendo's own website so I don't think it will be a mistake, but I wanted to check before editing the article. NFreak007 08:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No. Unless it comes from Capcom themselves, do not edit the article. It came from a publication; don't assume its correct, wait for the press release. YuushaFan 10:49, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Where'd that image come from? It can't be from E3; that's been closed to the public. -- YuushaFan 13:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Some European thing - it was announced that it's coming to Europe, and the French translation is already being created. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * At this point, I don't think we'd want to change the page to "A.J." yet, but I think this is at least verifiable that there is likelihood that GS4 will be called "A.J." which we can put into the body (but not the infobox) of this. --Masem 19:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It was the Japan Expo held in France, the same event the article in the very first link (the Nintendo Europe one) is about. --Guess Who 19:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I added a small section with the above link as a reference to note that AJ is the likely name but cannot be confirmed with Capcom. Also, when adding this, I noticed the lead paragraph in Details failed to mention the Japanese name of the protagonist but instead had Apollo. Not only to stay consistent with what we are saying with this page, but that right now, because it is only a Japanese release, I replaced this with the Japanese name, putting any "Apollo" mention in the specific localization section --Masem 22:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh by the way, there is an actual trailer now (in French). There's some press conference footage in there too. For unconfirmed this seems pretty damned official. --Guess Who 03:29, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's pretty irrefutable…—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As much as I'd like to agree with you, this might just mean that Apollo Justice is his French name. Sir Chocobo 23:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Apollo Justice WAS registered some time ago by Capcom, and in NA. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

IGN says Apollo Justice
This page gives the games name as Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. I know IGN isn't always the most reliable source, but has it been confirmed at E3 or something that I don't know about? NFreak007 20:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There's yet to be any word save for one photograph that this is the name. Yes, 99% sure that's the name, but we don't have verifiable evidence for the move... but is it worth the hassle to move back? --Masem 01:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Forget it--ChibiMrBubbles 23:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ...Okay? What's your problem? You almost seem to take offense towards the Apollo Justice name, and imply that Capcom doesn't claim it to be the name even though they're the only one who could have created that poster and that trailer. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you not read? I said forget it.--ChibiMrBubbles 01:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Read this: Grow up. You act like you're fighting against some injustice and just up and gave up because your indisputable argument of it not being official yet is being ignorantly ignored by everyone (even though Capcom clearly has). A little question for you - what is your problem? You're acting completely rude, as if people changing it to Apollo Justice are committing a horrible, unspeakable act. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * He seems to be under the impression that it is only confirmed for France, in spite of the USPTO entry for the name. --Guess Who 01:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And if anyone tries to claim that Apollo Justice is just the French name (even though neither are French words), see this: This trailer refers to Phoenix as "Phoenix" and is in French. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I guess you still can't read. Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing to have on Wikipedia, shame. --ChibiMrBubbles 03:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Another wonderful thing is quality edits. I suggest you practice some more before your next attempt. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

More Localized names for Kirihito and Minuki
According to this video from the 2007 Anime Expo, we also have localized names for Kirihito Garyuu, and Minuki. Kirihito is known as Kristoph Gavin. Minuki is known as Vérité. Since the names are pretty much confirmed in this video, I have updated the info page with these names.
 * Yet another person failed to see that I posted the same video two sections ago. I feel unloved~ --Guess Who 06:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * While I'm at it, I'd like to note that though Phoenix and Apollo have the same name in English and French, the same can not necessarily be said for Minuki and Garyuu - for instance, Edgeworth has different names in English and French despite being a major character. It doesn't help that Vérité is a French word for "truth". I'm removing those names until we get English confirmation. --Guess Who 07:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This may be more helpful than the video as it also reveals the French name for Kyouya- Konrad Gavin.
 * I think we should be careful in regards to the French release names, very few are the same between the two versions (as far as I am aware, with about two or three exceptions, apart from the Feys and Phoenix, all the other characters have had minor changes at least).

Sam 13:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly- the official Nintendo Europe page gives a slightly different set of names, replacing Verite with Trucy and Konrad with Klavier, although that could be for the German release. Looks like Europe might actually be getting this before North America.
 * The thing is, I decided to trust it because the article was official and in English (even though the screenshots are German).—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 02:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

french release date inclusion
Please argue why or why not the French release date should stay in the article here on the talk page instead of rv and rrv the article back and forth. --Masem 03:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * French release has been confirmed. I don't see why there's even an argument. --Guess Who 04:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

There's a trailer of the French version of the game released by Capcom. Nintendo of Europe confirmed it to be going to France. What MORE could you possibly ask that will refute us?--ChibiMrBubbles 12:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Kirihito and Minuki discussion
I agree that the names Kristoph Gavin and Verite are just as official as Apollo Justice - but that is in French. Major characters don't necessarily have the same names between translations, such as Edgeworth who I put forth as an example in my last statement on it, and whose name is Benjamin Hunter in the French version. Verite in particular is suspect because it is a French word. In any case, put any discussion about whether to include them in the article or not here. --Guess Who 03:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well -


 * 1) French is closer to English than Japanese.
 * 2) The character of Vérité could easily have originated from France in the English dub. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) There is a clear, active attempt by Capcom to promote the game in French - that is, they are particularly promoting it in French. This may not be fr.wiki, but there's easily enough reason to give a wider coverage of the series. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Images to demsote English name of second case and suspect.
This was reverted due to lack of sources. I changed them back so and will now provide images from IGN to prove that these changes are real. [] and []. I believe these should be sufficent sources for these changes. --70.48.173.236 02:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Broken Link
Citation number 10 appears to be a broken link (returned a 404 when I clicked it). 121.44.226.87 (talk) 11:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. The Url had changed since it was added here. It originally listed the character's Japanese name but was changed to her English one. --70.48.109.249 (talk) 22:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Weird release date problems
Interesting that while all the press releases that went to gaming sites listed Feb 12, the capcom blog posts (the same day that the 12th release date was news) the same press release, save for the release being the 19th. I have not seen any retractions to the 12th date, but I'm putting feelers out to figure out which version has the typo/mistake. --M ASEM 14:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're right. Some list it as 19th, some as 12th... It's still unclear which is right. But as Capcom did announce it once as the 12th, and the blog in question that said it was the 19th isn't actually official from Capcom, I'm guessing we should leave it as the 12th.LuGiADude (talk) 19:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, the one game site I talked to says it was odd it wasn't updated back from Capcom, so lets assume the 19th until new info is made available. --M ASEM 19:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

They've officially stated that the release date is the 19th, only a few days ago. Why does this page still get reverted? Xylophone220 (talk) 11:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That was me. The reference specifically said the release had been moved up one week to the 12th, so that's what I put in. Seems there's some argument over it, with some sources still saying the 19th. -- Good Damon 17:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Their own shop says the 19th, and preorders haven't changed. I'm more inclined to believe them than other sources. Xylophone220 (talk) 23:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

OBJECTION!
I would like to bring to the court's attention to these three articles:

http://www.digitalbattle.com/2008/01/11/apollo-justice-gets-release-date/ http://blastmagazine.com/2008/01/apollo-justice-release-date-pushed-up/ http://www.nintendolife.com/articles/2008/01/16/apollo_justice_demo_released

which clearly state that the release date is the TWELTH. Also, the first article which says the 19th is actually not by Capcom ITSELF but on a BLOG on Capcom-Unity, and the person who posted it was not part of Capcom themselves, so why should that article be more reliable than those?

I'd like to see an Objection sustained, but someone will probably give me an overruled for some reason or other :P but that's my logic :( LuGiADude (talk) 15:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * OVERRULED!
 * http://blog.capcom.com/archives/762
 * Capcom says the ninteenth. StupidFrog (talk) 22:33, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * http://blog.capcom.com/archives/762 although it is linked by Capcom, this is NOT official. See, they person who wrote that article was not capcom themselves. Thus, again, like I said, the other sites are equally valid as this one. That is Capcom-Unity, if you look at the top left. LuGiADude (talk) 11:34, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Just another point, read the article carefully "Capcom® Entertainment, a leading worldwide developer and publisher of video games, today announced... " Capcom themselves wouldn't say "Capcom announced", if this was official they'd say something like "We are proud to announce the release date...", they wouldn't speak in 3rd person. LuGiADude (talk) 11:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * http://shop.capcom.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Env=BASE&Locale=en_US&SiteID=capcomus&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=94662000
 * Well, what about the actual Capcom online store? It states that the game will be available on the 19th. And I don't think Capcom would get it's own release date wrong... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.8.219.126 (talk) 06:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Bugger. Didn't see that :P Wonder why sites are even still saying it's the 12th >.> Even blogs posted like TODAY say it's been pushed up to the 12th. But yeah, I'm guessing that's more reliable LuGiADude (talk) 11:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for finally seeing what I have been saying for days. Xylophone220 (talk) 05:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC) Anyone care to say why it's now saying the 12th again? Xylophone220 (talk) 03:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

"references"
Seeing that Wikipedia has such a nazi policy on "reliable sources", how is a fansite profile of a character (Minuki) a "reliable source"? 85.217.46.211 (talk) 16:07, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Split the Character and/or Plot page
The two sections are becoming larger and larger and they are now taking the majority of space in the article. If you want them to be detailed, then I suggest to split those sections. Stevefis (talk) 10:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd say to just delete the whole portion of case-specific characters and that large part about the plot of the game. Not only is it unnecessary but also very spoilerish. All we need is the stuff about the main characters and the small case descriptions, nothing more. 96.232.242.208 (talk) 04:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia does not edit to avoid spoilers nor uses spoiler warnings, per WP:SPOILER. --M ASEM 06:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of that, it's still far too long and unneeded. A simple summary of the cases, or a very basic outline of the plot would work better than several paragraphs of overly detailed information. 96.232.242.208 (talk) 04:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Australian Release
I'm not sure when it was released, but the game is now available in Australia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.198.175 (talk) 08:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)