Talk:Apollo missions tracked by independent parties

POV fork
This page is a POV fork of Independent evidence for Apollo Moon landings. It has been started in an attempt to delete content from that page, following a content dispute that remains unresolved. That page is still protected, and the creation of this page is yet another attempt to avoid consensus building and find an administrative alternative to collaborative editing. Gravitor 08:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you explain why you think that this article is a POV fork? In particular, could you explain what POV it is catering to, and that POV that it is ignoring? Also, could you please discuss changes on the talk page? I reverted your deletion and redirect. Lunokhod 10:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Gravitor, There is no consensus on your article. It only looks like it because it hasn't been edited for awhile. This article is moving towards consensus, because everyone (except you and Carfiend) thinks this was a good idea. Branson03 15:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is pretty funny given that the previous article was Gravitor's content fork from the hoax article. Wahkeenah 19:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I fail to see any POV in this article. It is a simple statement of facts.  Bubba73 (talk), 21:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This is an attempt to make an end run around the article that is currently locked - to avoid having to use Wikipedia process and reach consensus. Gravitor 00:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you provide some specific verifiable, reliable sources that have evidence that these observations did not take place? Bubba73 (talk), 00:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Which observations? Gravitor 22:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Message for Gravitor
Gravitor: I apologize in advance, but I am no longer going to respond to you until you start responding to the questions asked of you on the talk pages. If you read through these, you will see that most of us have responded to every concern you have brought up (even though you might have disagreed). You, on the other hand, consistently evade our questions. As one example: Why don't you answer my question above as to why you think that this article is a POV fork, and describe that POV that the article is catering to? I am glad to see that your level of disruptive behavior has diminished somewhat since the filing of the RfC on your behavior, but as a professional editor in real life, I still find your behavior unacceptable. So, once again, I apologize for ignoring you in the future; you are just a colossal waste of my time. Lunokhod 09:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I accept your apology. Gravitor 22:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge with evidence article
This should be merged into the original article - as above - this is a POV fork. We did not go 11:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose the user who put the merge tag on has only 4 edits on wikipedia. Most likely he/she hasn't read the entire talk page on the evidence article. As we all know this page was agreed by most that it should be created, and the rest of the stuff we are dealing with now. Gravitor said that it has nothing to do with the hoax. But it does! Who needs evidence if they already believe that the moon landings happened. This article puts the old one into a new POV, one that more people will want to read. 6% of Americans don't believe the moon landings happened. so 94% of Americans would not want to look at an article with evidence of the moon landings. This one has to do with tracking and observations of apollo missions. The other one's title doesn't fit most of the sections. Evidence of Moon Landings has nothing to do with the missions, which is one of the sections. And last, on the Independent Evidence article, We did not go said: "Leave it as it is - no need to merge, and certainly not delete." Then he puts the merge tag on one of the articles and not the other. Branson03 12:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I fail to see how this is a POV fork. Bubba73 (talk), 23:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose - the reason this is here was to split it off from that very same article, see the talk page there where it is discussed ad nauseum. I too fail to see how this is a point of view fork, and would appreciate somebody setting out for me, using very small words, how it is such. LeeG 03:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * We did not go is just saying it is a POV Fork, because Gravitor said it was. POV Forks is when the NPOV rule is broken. The article is in a NPOV. For We did not go, a non-NPOV would be if the hoax article said that it is fact, not a theory, because it has never (*and never will be*) proven. (The *s represent a non-NPOV statement). Branson03 22:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't even think that We did not go is coming back. Branson03 14:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose - as Gravitor kept saying, "This has nothing to do with the hoax." OK, now I'm quoting Gravitor, which is scary. But that by itself does not disqualify my opinion on the matter. :) Wahkeenah 23:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Support - this is a clear POV fork. Gravitor 14:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please, explain why this is a POV fork, I have read the WP:POV_fork page, and I do not understand how this is such. Feel free to assume I know nothing about WP policies, and start from first principles. LeeG 21:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, please explain. This is not written in a POV, it is just a statement of facts. If this article is a POV fork, Then the page User:Branson03 is a POV fork. Branson03 18:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I see that Gravitor has posted here, and on several other pages, but has not answered a very simple question. As a result I conclude the stance cannot be justified, therefore I'll remove the merge tag from this page sometime tonight (again giving more than adequate time for a response). LeeG 17:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Result of this debate was keep (oppose), because it is not a POV Fork after reviewing WP:POV_fork. How is it a POV Fork, I will answer that for everyone: It's not! Branson03 00:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Support - this is a POV fork that should be deleted. Carfiend 00:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * On what basis did you announce the result? Who decided how long the poll was to last, or what margin the vote needed to be? Oh, you, because you can make whatever rules fit your POV, I forgot! It looks like a tie to me at this point. Gravitor 01:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I was speaking because the tag was removed as on the talk page. Branson03 01:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Jodrell Bank
I saw a show on TV that showed tracking of Apollo by Jodrell Bank. In the dopler, you could definitely see that they had landed on the moon. This website discusses Jodrell's tracking of unmanned missions. Is there a source of their tracking of manned lunar missions? Bubba73 (talk), 19:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is another mention of it. Bubba73 (talk), 19:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Add this
Link to the Elaine Halbedel photos:. Cesarakg 03:23, 11 May 2007 (UTC)