Talk:Apostolic-Prophetic Movement

This article could do with a good clean-up and extra, sourced information on the movement and its figures, such as Cindy Jacobs etc. David L Rattigan 16:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the article can be useful, but ther needs to be more citation for the information and the existing information should brought into a more generic format. By using exact examples such as the Paul CAin etc. it limits the article. JWPhil 12:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, on a second reading I find the entire article fairly useless. By the time you are done with hte article you really have gained no knowledge on this movement. I will attempt a re-write that will focus on the development of the movement, the theological mainstays, the experience on a grassroots level and the implications of such a movement on both mainstream christianity and the churches involved. JWPhil 12:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The current version of the article is almost entirely uninformative, and at the very least is entirely unsourced. Is anyone interested in this article? SolaDeoGloria (talk) 21:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I find the article uncompelling and without a clear scope/direction/purpose. This is a movement without defined leaders, without defined members and without a clear or unified purpose. It sounds more like a grabbag of ideas than a clearly defined, recognised movement. The only clear leadership statements either connect to the 'New Apostolic Reformation' (which already has its own article) and the 'Network of Christian Ministries' (now defunct, only lasted 10 years). This article appears to serve no purpose in its own right. Perhaps it should be a section of the New Apostolic Reformation article instead?

Disambiguation issue
There is a disambiguation issue with respect to Bob Jones - the individual referred to in the article is not included on the disambiguation page. (Bob Jones the "prophet" is not any of the individuals associated with the university of that name.) I've removed the wikilink for that name for the moment until the disambiguation page is amended. Mike Doughney 21:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There is still no change to the disambiguation page, though the wikilink had been re-added. I have removed it again. Holford (talk) 23:42, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Quite a fantasic claim
"Their movement was called the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and grew at a rate of nine million people per year." Grew is past tense, so for what period of years does this appertain? Is it still growing at this outrageous rate? Is it only in the United States or is this a worldwide growth rate? How are the censuses done within a group of loosely confederated churches? ~Sollupulo 2600:1016:B105:530F:71C8:E44A:C12F:EBC7 (talk) 21:31, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Jonathan Edwards
There seems to be great subjectivity on what prophecy is, according to this page. I've included a reference from Jonathan Edwards' work on Revival in order to add some balance but there remains a great deal of opinion in the article. A link to what prophecy is would help as well. David B. 11:32, 7 August 2007

What does Jonathan Edwards have to do with the Latter Rain movement? Or David Wilkerson,for that matter? I would think that Wilkerson would object strenuously to being included in any article favorable to this heresy. --JoeyKelly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.171.94.246 (talk) 05:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The current version of the article does not make sense at all, actually. The paragraph with reference to David Wilkerson begins "the practice..." but has nowhere mentioned a practice before that point. Looking at the article history, previous versions attempted to include a historical narrative about the use of prophecy in the past century. In that context, I understand the point that the author was trying to make, but as it stand the paragraph serves no purpose and portrays David Wilkerson in an incorrect way. I am removing that section until it can be meaningfully used. I will include it here for posterity. SolaDeoGloria (talk) 21:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

"In the U.S., the practice gained new impetus in the 1990s. A notable early forerunner of this movement is David Wilkerson whose book The Vision made dramatic predictions in the 1970s which arguably have been borne out, as well in as subsequent books such as America's Last Call, and Set the Trumpet to Your Mouth."

Burning Bush
Politically inflammatory remarks such as "the supreme court elected George Bush" have no place here whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.26.243.3 (talk) 17:51, 12 September 2007 (UTC) I do like the burning bush statement. I know that is what was said, but no one thought 'arsonist'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.193.24.101 (talk) 06:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

List removed from article
The following list does not belong in the article. If it contains reliable sources it should be rewritten to take the form of citations. Mike Doughney (talk) 18:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Supportive

1. Some Said it Thundered, by David Pytches

2. Catch the Fire, by Guy Chevreau

3. Quenching the Spirit, by William DeArteaga

4. Flowing in the Holy Ghost, by Rodney Howard-Browne

5. The Quest for the Radical Middle, by Bill Jackson

6. Prophets and the Prophetic Movement, by Bill Hamon

Critical

1. Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries), by Ernest Gruen

2. Holy Laughter and the Toronto Blessing, by James A. Beverley

3. Charismatic Chaos, by John MacArthur

4. The Love of Power or the Power of Love, by Tom Smail, Andrew Walker, and Nigel Wright

5. Michael G. Maudlin, “Seers in the Heartland: Hot on the Trail of the Kansas City Prophets,” Christianity Today 35:1 (1991): 18-22

6. Why I Left the Prophetic Movement, by Andrew Strom

7. Main Street Mystics, by Margaret M. Poloma

Article has wrong title
Is the article either titled Kansas City Prophets or the Apostolic/Prophetic —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deltadom (talk • contribs) 01:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

63.77.85.254 (talk) 17:35, 6 April 2010 (UTC)This article is nothing more than diatribe. There are no sources and many of the names dropped here are done for affect. Also, many of these men have never even met each other. This is my eyewitness testimony: Your facts are greatly misinformed as well as deceptive.

I suggest a move
This article is not much different from the New Apostolic Reformation page. I suggest one of two solutions. Either we merge this article with that one, or we move this article to the name "Kansas City Prophets". Another article that is very close is five-fold ministry. My suggestion is to move the article to the name "Kansas City Prophets" and change the article to focus directly on that subject. Flofor15 (talk) 18:48, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion
It would be helpful if the place and time of the movement were mentioned early on. I wasn't sure until after the first paragraph in what millennium, and on what continent, this movement took place... Omphaloscope talk 18:18, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Introduction
The very first sentence of the Introduction, which reads "The Apostolic-Prophetic Movement (AP movement) refers to a restoration of the neglected elements of the Five-Fold Ministry described in the New Testament book of Ephesians 4:11–13, 'some apostles, and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ,'" at once assumes the reader agrees the movement is a "restoration," that "elements" have been otherwise ignored (by whom?), that an unspecified version of The Bible describes a "Five-Fold Ministry," and in general would cause a casual and objective reader to ignore the entire thing. It goes downhill from there. Kcor53 (talk) 12:46, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Article has the tone of a church pamphlet.
This is an encyclopedia, not a faith-based resource. This article is neither comprehensive nor fully informative. It assumes a target demographic that is already familiar with the context and potentially shares the underlying faith.

Fully editorial statement: Evangelical Christian ministerial writing is appalling. It fails utterly to communicate a self understanding and instead takes on the qualities of advertisement or self aggrandizement. It is precisely the reason no one out side of the evangelical church can watch a PureFlix movie without cringing to death. Someone with the time, conviction, and expertise please address horrid lump of an article and give at least a *smeblance* of a critical process. 2600:1004:B167:564C:0:33:55A2:B01 (talk) 03:53, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Five! Count ’em, two!
The article refers to the five-fold ministry as a crucial element in the movement, but fails to tell us what the five ministries are. Only apostle and prophet are mentioned. Koro Neil (talk) 02:31, 12 March 2022 (UTC)


 * See "Introduction" in the Talk section above. Julietta Swift (talk) 09:52, 27 February 2023 (UTC)