Talk:Apotheosis

Untitled
Thought it good to start w/ the general definition (from wiktionary, et al.) since I came here from a page that has nothing to do with pagan Rome. --Kbh3rd 01:43, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

hmm i dont understand what apotheosis ahs to do with alexander pope's rape of the lock..

email me if u do!

stardreams2007@yahoo.com

--There is an apotheoisis in Alexander Pope's "The Rape of the Lock", occuring from lines 110 to 132, when Belinda's lock of hair soars upward to the heavens and is lost to immortal fame. Pope uses several epic conventions in the satirical poem, including the Invocation to the Muse, a dream vision, arming the hero for battle, and a descent into the underworld, to mock the portrayal of such a small offense, the snipping of a lock of hair, into a large feud.

There is an aspect of apotheosis related to mythology and literature. Joseph Campbell used this term to decrsibe the "Hero's" journey. Rain Mateo 04:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I've been involved recently in a project to clean a bronze statue of Nelson in the centre of Liverpool UK in time for the bicentenary of his death. The statue had four chained prisoners sitting on a plinth, each of which was taken to Liverpool Conservation Centre to be cleaned with a laser. The top group of the statue including Nelson was cleaned insitu behind a structure of steel cladding to keep the laser in; this group was called the Apotheosis, hence my looking it up here, and it all makes sense now. http://www.redstarline.org.uk/liverpool_city.html Is this terminology peculiar to this statue or is it a part of 'monument vocabulary' ( Bart Edmondson b.edmondson@ntlworld.com )


 * Good question. I do not know the answer, but I can tell you that Nelson's is not the only "apotheosis" statue.  There is an equestrian bronze in front of the Saint Louis Art Museum in St. Louis, Missouri called Apotheosis of St. Louis. &mdash; Kbh3rdtalk 04:11, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Apotheosis is also a Techno act, both famous and notorious for a techno version of Carl Orffs "O Fortuna", which was later pulled because the copyright hadn't expired yet. Several wiki pages link here, like Carmina Burana (Orff) and Eurodance Marcov 17:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Roman divine/god distinction
Romans did not recognize any person as god. There is no source claiming any Roman emperor to be god. The inscriptions only say them to be divine.--Nixer 00:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you know what divine means?
 * Divinity in Roman history and myth is a complicated matter, but I woudn't say that the article is 'completely incorrect'. Great generals, politicians and priests were made into 'divine' men, but that classification is well short of what we would call a god with creative and destructive power. For the article to be worthwhile, it only needs to avoid giving divine attributes to the divine men mentioned, unless the original sources are clear enough to use them. I think that the divine men were more like prophets than gods. Lothair of Lorraine (talk) 22:42, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The above comment is completely incorrect. Good God! To be divine is to be a god! There is not even anything unique about the emperors being seen as gods -- the head of a household became a family ancestral god on his death.


 * ✅ The current wording of Apotheosis is satisfactory. On this topic, see the linked section Glossary of ancient Roman religion, and secondarily Imperial cult of ancient Rome. Daask (talk) 20:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Consider this Cite?
What about this as a citation?

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Apotheosis.html

Changing the greek root
I'm going to use the lexical ἀποθεόω instead of ἀποθεοῦν as is now listed. It doesn't make sense to list a random infinitive version of the word.

I suggest you use the nominative, not the root or stem.Lothair of Lorraine (talk) 22:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Oblivion Reference?
I think the reference to a weapon from the game Oblivion is a little meaningless, here... Plus, I changed "Staff" to "Staves." I think that bullet should go away, personally. 150.243.119.45 16:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation?
Just out of interest, how is Apotheosis supposed to be pronounced? is it "appo-THEE-oh-sis, appathy-ah-sis" or anything else? i know this is pretty lame, but i'm really interested in words, but i tend to have pretty poor pronounciation. cheers. Dark_Wounds —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark wounds (talk • contribs) 08:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I pronounce it the second way, which apparently seems to be the most common way from my observation. - NemFX (talk) 01:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Dictionary.com has and  .  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]  03:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Clinical psychology
The clinical psychology section says nothing about clinical psychology. It's just a bunch of speculation about psychedelics and their "possible" effects. It should be deleted. ---98.223.194.120 (talk) 15:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotheosis#In_the_Roman_Catholic_church
I think this needs citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.191.87.42 (talk) 01:54, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Just on the orthodox Christian view that man can become "like God" or "divine" - the Bible clearly states "let us make man in our image" - and after the creation of man God declared his creation "very good" - in other words he was already like God. How? - because he had the ability to express the same qualities - love, justice, wisdom, power etc. The orthodox view is clearly incorrect. At the fall man lost the ability to express these qualities perfectly. The Bible indicates that in the resurrection (or "re-creation" as Jesus named it) this ability will be gradually restored in the healing that will take place (Rev Ch 22). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.13.3.93 (talk) 05:07, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Mistborn
Does it seem to anyone else that Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy gets a disproportionate amount of pagespace dedicated to it? I think it should be trimmed down to the same paragraphs-worth the other examples get, with a link to the series' page for those wanting further explication.

59.167.128.129 (talk) 13:10, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope my reduction of that material is satisfactory. Esoglou (talk) 14:00, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Pop culture
Should we add Madoka Kaname from Puella Magi Madoka Magica as an example? She reached godhood at the end of the series, becoming hope itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.110.112 (talk) 07:37, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

The Warmachine section is probably not using the best example. Apotheosis is a historical fact in the game's literature (where it is called "ascension"), and the first known cases were the "god" and "devil" of Cygnar's religion. This can be found in the Iron Kingdoms RPG books (Warmachine is set in the Iron Kingdoms setting) "Iron Kingdoms Vol I: Character Guide", pp. 209-226, 2004 "Iron Kingdoms Vol II: World Guide", pp. 19-20, 2005, "Iron Kingdoms Full Metal Fantasy Roleplaying Game: Kings, Nations, and Gods", pages not available at the moment, 2013.Mogdonazia (talk) 00:59, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Word choice
The article states that "divinization" is the proper English word to use. This is nonsense; the word apotheosis has been in use (meaning "divinization") for centuries; check the OED; and if it were not in use, then the article would be called "divinization." This strikes me as an absurd attempt to replace a proper English word with a neologism designed to make things "easier" for people of limited lexical experience. Theonemacduff (talk) 04:39, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * English dictionaries recognize both words. They don't mean the same, as the article explains.  Esoglou (talk) 19:20, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

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Section on LDS beliefs, remains tagged for three years, needs further improvement
For anyone who may be looking to continue to improve the section on LDS doctrine in this article, I recommend this Wiki article section on Divinization/Deification that seems to me to cover the same subject in reference to Latter-Day Saint belief but without the infractions seen in this article's section here. Chief2443 (talk) 02:31, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Mormon view biased
The statement that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church or Mormons) do believe in apotheosis along the lines of the Christian tradition of divinization or deification, but in the church it is referred to as exaltation or eternal life, and is accomplished through "sanctification." is written by one not familiar with the full doctrine of the LDS or written by a member of the LDS.

The LDS doctrine has no similarity to ancient Christianity. The LDS doctrine is that man may evolve to God just like God. In other words an essential change of being from man to God. This view, needless to say, was and is condemned as outside of the Chritsiantan Faith. Deofocation in the ancient Church saw only those attributes that are communicable(i.e. the virtues of love, justice, compassion intelligence, rationality, morality, creativity, moral goodness)as what would be "divinized". Divinized in that it would be glorified in our future state of the resurrection as man. There was no hint that this meant that we would also share in God's non communicable attributes of omni attributes like his omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotency, eternality, etc)

This comment should be worded to reflect that and not make it appear that the LDS doctrine is the same in its features to ancient Christianity.

Rastafarianism?
The erstwhile Emperor of Ethiopia, Haile Mariam Sellassie, is worshipped as a divine incarnation of Jah by the Rastafarians. Seems relevant.

Catholic section
Since the Orthodox section has no content other than the redirect to the Theosis article, shouldn't the paragraphs under the Catholic section be moved to the Divinization article while leaving a redirect since both denominations believe in Theosis and Divinization respectively but reject apotheosis? Rote1234 (talk) 22:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

WP:NOTDIC
This whole article suffers from WP:NOTDIC. Basically, it focuses too much on the word 'apotheosis' rather than the concept.If a word has multiple meanings, Wikipedia standard is to split it into multiple articles. One for each topic. I believe this article should focus on the theological meaning. Other metaphorical meanings should be split into other articles. Ashmoo (talk) 11:59, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I half agree. I think the article should concentrate on the contexts where this is actually the normal and appropriate word commonly used. That means a) ancient religion and b) art, ancient and modern. All the "modern" religious sections for Christianity & LDS have their own long articles under the different terms that they actually use themselves, and should be reduced to summaries with links. Johnbod (talk) 00:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Scientology?
How about them?? Ed 2607:FEA8:483:8E00:E449:C258:32CD:3933 (talk) 08:43, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Logos and Sophia, i.e. Word and Wisdom
C'mon folks; you can't leave these apotheosized concepts out of the Greek or Christian sections. The Gospel of John explicitly calls Jesus "Word." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C0:980:E520:406C:784F:2E6B:19A6 (talk) 17:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC)