Talk:Apple Bandai Pippin

List of Game Titles
Someone needs to compile a list of game titles. Since there were only 18 titles released in the United States according to the article, it should be pretty easy.

Bad title
Even though the Apple Pippin is "the world's worst game console", this article shouldn't have this title. Peter O. (Talk) 02:46, 27 August 2006 (UTC) It's now moved back. Peter O. (Talk) 02:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Missing information
Where are the high end exercise treadmills that came equipped with the Pippin hosting a web browser? I saw them at product launch. - Sparky 15:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Applejack
Is the Applejack interface in any way derived from the USB, or are the connectors just superficially similar? boffy_b 11:54, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The connector predates USB by a year or two, and is completely different. It's only similarity is a rectangular shape.
 * --Flightsoffancy (talk) 18:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

See Also section
I changed the text that said "see also" to a correctly capitalized header, and changed the Apple, Inc. text into a link.

Icktoofay 05:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Made in Ireland
I notice the pictured Pippin says this on the back - where they all made in Ireland, or was it just prototype models of them? I know Apple has/had a production facility in Ireland (Cork I think). --Zilog Jones 21:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Atworld and @mark was made in Japan, the Katz KMP2000 was in Ireland, as well as some accessories.
 * --Flightsoffancy (talk) 18:14, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Kind of a very late response, but I need to set the record straight... All of the Pippins were assembled by Mitsubishi in Japan. Bandai decided to let Mitsubishi produce the hardware for them. Katz Media hired Bandai to make systems for it on an OEM basis. The printed circuit boards for many of the Apple products during the 1990s - including the Pippin logic boards were made in Ireland and Singapore. This is why one can't confuse the Pippin effort with the Macintosh clone effort. Although both have licensing to third-parties in common, the difference is that Apple made the Pippin logic boards and then gave them to the licensees, while the Mac cloners made everything from the chip-up. This way, Apple still had control of the Pippin's fundamentals - which was agreed upon between Apple and Bandai. Groink (talk) 08:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

"and ran a cut-down version of the Mac OS"
False, the o.s. was cut-down System 7, the first Mac OS (System 8) was only released in 1998. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.79.68.29 (talk) 15:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, the first “Mac OS” was 7.6 (which still wasn't what the Pippin used.) It was also the first time Apple charged everyone for system software :-(. 72.235.10.209 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Three years to respond... To clarify a few things here: Mac OS is synonymous with Macintosh System Software. In oral and written dialogs, we say "Mac OS" or "Mac system software" to mean any version of the operating system. I've never heard anyone say or write something like, "This model can run Mac OS or Macintosh System Software."
 * It is true that 7.6 was the first version to use "Mac OS". However, there's good reason for why 7.6 was the first. It was the first version to be allowed to run on Apple-licensed Macintosh technology made by 3rd-party manufacturers, also known as the Mac clones. Systems built by the clone makers had 7.6 and later included. Because the clone systems weren't "Macintosh" systems and were even not allowed to use "Macintosh" in their marketing, Apple had to change the name from "Macintosh System" to "Mac OS," in order for the whole clone idea to work. Groink (talk) 07:13, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Other Titles
It is my belief that the encyclopedic voice disapears when it is said "as mentioned before". Is there a way to rephrase this?--Nblschool (talk) 14:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Major Pippin salesman and collector start contributing.
Hello everyone.

I was involved in pippin since nearly the beginning. I became a sales man and wrote a very long, a precursor of the Blog, new page. I have most of the Pippin accessories as well as about 60% of all the pippin titles made, 100 in my possession. I have 3 pippins, one is the KMP2000, perhaps the most rare console ever for a NON-prototype.

I will being adding my experience, which unfortunately has little media backup, but I can provide other evidence as desired.

The story needs to be told. Cheers! --Flightsoffancy (talk) 15:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

OOOOOKAY! I did MAJOR, MAJOR work on the Pippin page. Everything I typed can be corroborated, but with paper material and pictures. I will continue to add little bits at a time, but the foundation is set. IF you question something, DISCUSS FIRST. If I cant prove it, then allow me to change it. If you have more to add, please do.

The CPU is the 603, not 603e. slowest of all the PPC's cpu's used by Apple. Cheers! --Flightsoffancy (talk) 21:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Aw come on, man. The 603 wasn't THAT bad compared to the 601, give the poor little guy a break. 72.235.10.209 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

"Bandai Pippin", or just "Pippin" is appropriate, not Apple Pippin
Apple never made the Pippin, but the OS and ROM was Apple. Bandai made it, it was advertised as such, so it is in fact a BANDAI Pippin. Alternatively, it can be called simply "Pippin" (The front of the Pippin says "advanced technology by Apple Computer") --Flightsoffancy (talk) 21:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe this is just a mistake in terminology. Apple did indeed make the "Pippin." As I mentioned in another section of this talk page, Apple designed the entire platform. What Apple did was license the platform to other companies. Bandai was one of the licensees. The only thing Bandai really made were the games and the trademarks like @WORLD and ATMARK. Bandai didn't even make the shell and the logic board - this is why the Bandai hardware footprint is virtually identical to the developer unit made in Ireland. Also, Apple controlled the entire developer base. The tools, the specifications, the compilers (APW) - all were run out of Apple. Bandai had no interface with the developers. Apple controlled everything because, if it didn't, then you would've had fragmentation between licensees, much like what you're seeing Google's Android platform go through. Apple Pippin's life was very short, but if it was alive for a few more years, you might have seen Apple Pippin appear not only in other products other than Bandai, but possibly in other form factors, such as cell phones, hand-held devices, tablets, etc. It is the very short lifespan and the limited release of products that cause misunderstandings of what Pippin really is. Groink (talk) 07:29, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

PowerPC 603 and relation to latest VGC
Guy Harris:

The PowerPC 603 later became the 603e, and with changes in the cache structure became the PPC750, aka PowerPC G3 (and some Power Mac upgrades simply replaced the 603 with PPC 740 (G3), which in turn was developed to the G4 with the addition of the AltiVec. It does become difficult to trace the versions, but it is reasonable to say that aspects of the 603 eventually resulted in the VGC CPUs.

Thank you for doing better grammar on description. If the above information helps to trace the lineage between Pippin and (say) Xbox, please add to as needed. --Flightsoffancy (talk) 23:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * What are "VGC CPUs"? The GameCube, at least according to its Wikipedia page, has a 750-based "Gekko" CPU; the PS3 has a Cell processor, the PPE of which might be 603/7xx-derived but which also has the additional processor elements; the Xbox 360 has a Xenon processor which, again, might be 603/7xx-derived.  For the latter two, at least, a citation is necessary.  Guy Harris (talk) 03:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * PowerPC_G3 clearly states the Nintendo GameCube and possibly Wii is based on the 750, the descendant of the the 603. Now to find Xbox and PS3... --Flightsoffancy (talk) 17:20, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The PPE and Xenos (spelling?) are in-order CPUs, while the 603 is some kind of tagged out of order CPU - IOW quite different. I therefore strongly doubt that they're 603 derivates, POWER6 OTOH is also in-order so the PPE might be a derivate of that chip.--Anss123 (talk) 08:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * He's right, all G3 and later chips are directly descended from the 603. The 604-based “Habanero” half of the G3 line (for desktops) was killed when Apple decided the laptop-focussed, 603-based PPC 740's astonishing performance was “good enough.” Admittedly, some parts of Habanero were cobbled together with the G3 to make the G4, and some features from the POWER4 were combined with the G4 during the G5's design, but the entire G3/4/5 series is mostly an evolution of the 603's minimalistic design.


 * As for modern consoles, Gekko/Broadway is just a die-shrunk G3, while Cell and Xenon are refabs using drop-in G5 cores (yes, even SPE, which is yet another name for AltiVec/VE/VMX.) 72.235.10.209 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Move back to Bandai Pippin
I posted a few weeks ago this is a BANDAI Pippin.

I understand the belief it is an Apple product, but it never was that. This is truly a BANDAI product, made FOR Bandai, in Japan, with Bandai related software. Please do not bounce this back.--Flightsoffancy (talk) 17:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Can anyone make an argument for Apple Bandai Pippin? If not, I will get this moved back to Bandai Pippin, which seems more accurate. Rhindle The Red (talk) 02:07, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have yet to find any photos of a Pippin's with any Apple labeling anywhere on it, so that counts against it. On the "for it" side, there are reviews in periodicals that refer to it as the Apple Pippin, and Apple used to have a a support page on their site at http://www.info.apple.com/pippin/, which has since been taken down. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 06:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The picture of the back of the Pippin in the info box has Apple labelling on it. On the full resolution picture you can read: "Pippin is a registered trademark in the U.S. and other jurisdictions, and the Pippin logo is a trademark of Apple Computer Inc. used under licence" JP Godfrey (Talk to me) 22:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just plain “Pippin” seems like the least flamey choice to me. 72.235.10.209 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Platform vs Console
I think some editors are not looking at this article in the same way myself and some others do. This article is about the Pippin platform - technology that, when put together, makes up the Pippin platform. The logic board, the modified Macintosh system software, the firmware, the API, the CDs - all of this make up the Pippin platform. This is very much like Apple's Macintosh or Google's Android - both of them are platforms. Platforms is the foundation from which products are built - or consoles in this case. I think some editors don't see it this way because they're looking at the Pippin from a product perspective. This article is not about the console. The Bandai Pippin ATMARK, or the Bandai Pippin @WORLD - these two devices are examples of consoles derived by the Pippin platform. This article is not about the consoles. This is why, in the introduction paragraph, Pippin is referred to as a platform. If the Pippin was a success, one would have found Pippin being implemented in other form factors, such as phones or hand-held devices like the Nintendo Gameboy. Those are not consoles! Groink (talk) 05:44, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * [This source says that they are all the same console, but different models using different names. If the article was only about the platform then it wouldn't have included the price, nor would it use sources that all call it a console, nor would the articles title include "Bandai". If you feel that there should be a separate article for the platform only, then you should create one, but this isn't the article to try and prove a point. [[User:Jojhutton| JOJ ]] Hutton  23:18, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This link is a copy of the original Apple FAQ, before Apple took the web site down. This article is slowly becoming one about the platform, and I'm even planning on moving the namespace to "Apple Pippin", and have a section about the different consoles like Bandai. As for the price, there should not be a price in the article, and per Wikipedia's "Wikipedia is not a price guide" guideline, I'll remove the pricing information, which is consistent with the iPhone and iPod touch articles. Groink (talk) 01:58, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't move the article, but create a new one that is solely about the software. This articles title and sources say that it was a console, because the article is about the console and not just the software. Always has been. If you want an article about the software, then create one, but don't change this article. JOJ   Hutton  02:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, when you say "software," the Pippin is more than just software. Apple designed the logic board, modified Mac OS 7.5, and wrote the specificaitions for developers to write software for the platform. 90-percent of this article is already about the platform, and not about Bandai in particular. The only difference between Bandai and Katz is that Bandai sold more units. Otherwise, with the exception of the external SCSI interface, there is no hardware difference between Bandai and Katz. So, for this article to stay as "Apple Bandai Pippin" despite Bandai only being a tiny part of the article doesn't make sense. As for the "console" argument, we may as well write an article for the Katz Media Pippin. See my point? The platform is the foundation, and the consoles ride on the foundation. The only reason why "the article is about the console and not just the software. Always has been" is because, really, none of the editors knew any better. I don't mean that in a bad way, but the creation of the article was for the wrong reason, and only now are we correcting it. Groink (talk) 02:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Whatever you want to call it, "platform" or "software", doesn't change the fact that this particular article is and always has been about the hardware or the console. That is how it was created. I'm not disputing that "Pippin" is the "platform" used in the Bandai Pippin, but that information is a separate article, if you wish. Just as IOS is the software or platform for the iPhone. I haven't seen any data or sources confirming the Katz though.-- JOJ  Hutton  02:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I've created Apple Pippin. Much of the content has been copied from this article, but I removed the console, CD-ROM games and other parts from it. Only the platform specifics are in the new article. Groink (talk) 02:56, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Great. I'll add it to my watch list. Shouldn't have too many issues with it.-- JOJ  Hutton  03:03, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Logo guidelines
Before any editor even thinks about modifying the Pippin logo, read the official logo guidelines. http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/downloads/pippinguidelines.pdf The current logo shape and color were a result of this document. Groink (talk) 03:54, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Applebag Tickler?
I can't find any documentation anywhere about any vibrating or haptic feedback version of the Applejack controller, and if such a thing exists, I'm certain it isn't called an "Applebag Tickler" I tried to edit it out, but my change was reverted back. I'm the noobiest, and I'm still not sure what I'm doing, or how to request a reference citation. Surely If someone claims that there is a vibrating controller for the Pippin called the "Applebag Tickler" the burden of proof would be on them, right? (69.144.113.114 (talk) 00:09, 21 October 2015 (UTC))


 * Yes, both the "Applebag Tickler" and "AppleBlaster Light Gun" appear to be vandalism. I first just put a "citation needed" on "Applebag Tickler", as the name seemed implausible even for a Japanese-American co-production, and it seemed unlikely given that the PlayStation DualShock controller wasn't even introduced to Japan until the end of 1997, and North America in 1998.  After that, though, I tried Googling, and found only 7 results for "Applebag Tickler" and 4 for "AppleBlaster Light Gun", all apparently dating after they were added to the article on 2015-08-06 by 99.226.119.233, an IP address on Rogers Cable in Toronto, Ontario, Canada (I would have found it slightly more plausible if coming from Japan and maybe talking about Japan-only accessories).  When you, 69.144.113.114, removed Applebag Tickler on 2015-10-19, 99.226.109.215 (also on Rogers Cable in Toronto) had reverted your edit within hours, meaning they probably had an email alert set up to keep their vandalism maintained.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/99.226.119.233, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:99.226.119.233, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/99.226.109.215, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:99.226.109.215 show an obvious history of vandalism and re-vandalism, some not reverted yet.  I suggest this Talk page entry be left here for a while despite the "Applebag Tickler" and "AppleBlaster Light Gun" having been removed in case this persistent vandal returns. -Dan Harkless (talk) 19:41, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

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File:Pippin-Atmark-Console-Set.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Pippin-Atmark-Console-Set.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on April 23, 2018. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2018-04-23. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

jailbroken
the pippin was recently jailbroken (private keys reversed). I tried editing but fucked up the citing https://blitter.net/blog/2019/05/04/exploring-the-pippin-roms-part-7-a-lot-to-digest