Talk:Apple Maggot Quarantine Area

Request for Comment: Description of the Quarantine Area in the Lede
The original version, written by me and reviewed by Dr.K. at DYK, is thus:
 * 1.The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is an area of the world which has been placed under a permanent quarantine by the United States state of Washington.

This was changed by SounderBruce to this, with the edit summary "rewriting lead sentence: "of the world" is a bit much":
 * 2. The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a permanent quarantine area in the U.S. state of Washington.

That was, in turn, changed by me to this, with the edit summary "doesn't make sense - the article itself states the quarantine includes Oregon, California, Idaho so incorrect to say it is "in the state of Washington"":
 * 3. The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a permanent quarantine area.

SounderBruce further revised it to the following with the edit summary "at least include the country":
 * 4. The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a permanent quarantine area in the United States.

I undid that change, reverting it to version 3, with the edit summary "edit makes lede inconsistent with article which states "All "foreign countries where apple maggot is established" have also ..."" - resulting in this:
 * 5. The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a permanent quarantine area.

SounderBruce further amended this with the edit summary "Should be clear that the quarantine only applies within Washington state":
 * 6. The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a permanent quarantine area in effect within the U.S. state of Washington.

Any further edits will run afoul of 3RR, however, (with deference and respect to SB's GF efforts to improve the article) I'm not satisfied with version #6 and would like to solicit feedback as to which version of the lede is more correct to the body of the article: 1, 2, 3/5, 4, 6, or none of those? Thanks. Chetsford (talk) 05:44, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Current Version as Written by Dr K Version 1 or Version 3/5 - The construction of Version 6 (as I read it) is ambiguous as "in effect within" could either mean "the effect occurs within" (which would be an incorrect reading since it is an import control, ergo, the effect occurs outside), or, "the effect is applied by forces within" (which would a correct reading). Version 1 is unambiguous as it establishes that the quarantine area encompasses an extensive geography while also explaining that the quarantine has been applied by a sub-national polity (the state of Washington) and ipso facto has no legal force beyond its borders (a point made clearer in the body of the article). Version 3/5 is technically correct, though lacks a degree of specificity. Chetsford (talk) 05:44, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping Chetsford. I provided my own version. Hopefully this settles the matter. That was some fast-paced edit-warring, although I agree that your version was considerably more accurate. Dr.   K.  07:23, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I don't think this was really an edit-war except in the strictest sense of the word; I think SounderBruce and I were both positively working to an optimal solution. That said, I prefer your new version to all of the previous ones. Chetsford (talk) 07:26, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your nice comment Chetsford. Sorry, I didn't mean to be critical of you when I mentioned the edit-war. Your version conformed to what the RS stated and should not have been reverted, especially so rapidly, and without talkpage discussion. But, hopefully, this will be the end of it. Dr.   K.  07:33, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I didn't mean to imply you were suggesting blame on my part. I just wanted to clarify that I think this was a GF edit exchange between SounderBruce and myself and wanted to clarify that I didn't feel any offense as to his and my different opinions on the verbiage used. Chetsford (talk) 10:21, 21 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Version 1 is best, though it might better say ‘of the United States placed under permanent quarantine by the state of Washington’. The quarantine area is stated as all the area in red.  Markbassett (talk) 18:32, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the comment Mark. The thing is the state of Washington has also placed under quarantine areas outside the US. See:  Dr.   K.  02:27, 23 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Just chiming in to say that the current version looks fine. This little "dispute" was all in good faith, as we were trying to clear up some confusion over whether the line should explain where the quarantine applies (Washington) and places that the quarantine bans apples from (other states/countries).  Sounder Bruce  03:53, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * How about something like this: The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is an region of the United States encompassing Oregon, California, and Idaho which has been placed under permanent quarantine. That gets the regional inclusion zone mentioned and also notes that the quarantine is permanent. That would satisfy everyone, wouldn't it? Damotclese (talk) 19:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No. The quarantine zone is not limited to Oregon, California, and Idaho. It also includes part of Washington itself, plus all of the eastern United States, plus all nations on Earth where apple maggots exist. Chetsford (talk) 09:02, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

* The research I did quickly all seems to lead to Oregon and especially to Washington State as being the primary Area. e.g. http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20171219/wsda-to-expand-its-apple-maggot-rule

BUT: http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/programs/NurseryChristmasTree/Pages/Quarantines.aspx

Apple maggot quarantine; 603-052-021 In the eastern United States: all states and districts east of and including the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas. Western United States: California, Idaho, Utah and Washington. In Oregon; Benton, Clackamas, Clatsop, Columbia, Coos, Curry, Douglas, Gilliam, Hood River, Jackson, Josephine, Lane, Lincoln, Linn, Marion, Multnomah, Polk, Sherman, Tillamook, Yamhill, Wasco, Washington, and the City of Pendleton in Umatilla County

And yet, when I keep searching, only Washington, and a few Oregon sources are available. Not a single one from any of the other states. The key is to confirm, without doubt, where such an Area currently exists. Peter K Burian (talk) 00:16, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The source you've found refers to the Apple Maggot Control Area, which is something established by the State of Oregon. The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area, the subject of this article, is something established by the State of Washington. Chetsford (talk) 09:00, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

* How about this: The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a region of the United States, encompassing specific counties of certain states, which has been placed under permanent quarantine. Peter K Burian (talk) 00:18, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The quarantine zone is not only a region of the United States - as per the article it includes all countries in the world where apple maggots reside. Chetsford (talk) 08:59, 3 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Current Version  namely: The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area is a permanent quarantine area established by the U.S. state of Washington. That is quite enough and details as to which states/counties are affected belong later in the article. It is nonsense to suggest Washington has the power to put any country outside the US 'in quarantine', which is what 'of the world' suggests, it may ban imports from such places, but that is different. Pincrete (talk) 01:26, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Constitutional issues
How does this state bar to out-of-state fruit survive the "interstate commerce" provisions of the U.S. Constitution? This should be explained. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 01:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Piledhigheranddeeper - I don't have a RS so can't address Washington specifically in the body of the article without running afoul of OR, however, to answer your question here ... in Maine v. Taylor the Supreme Court held the commerce clause does not hold free trade "above all other values." Separately, Section 436 of the Plant Protection Act of 2000 assigns the federal government's power of regulation of borders to state governments in cases where "special local need as supported by sound scientific data or thorough risk assessment" demonstrate necessity for state action. Another case in-use are California's Border Protection Stations which line its frontier with Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona; in that case the state has established its right to prohibit land entry into California without prior inspection for the Gypsy moth (among other pests). Chetsford (talk) 11:56, 10 January 2018 (UTC)