Talk:Apple pie/Archive 1

American?
is apple pie really that american? appletrees didn't even grow in america until the europeans brought them over :S and the english were already making pies of the weirdest ingredients so how could they forgot to try apple? just a googlesearch shows that a dutch painting dated 1626 shows an apple pie. also apple pie is the most popular pie where i live and eaten alot. i always thought of the saying 'as american as apple pie' as somewhat sarcastic, so can anyone maybe explain/clarify what is so american about apple pie? --62.251.90.73 14:29, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * It may not be logical, in the sense that apple pie probably did originate somewhere else, but the phrase, "as American as apple pie" is a genuine phrase, used by genuine Americans in their speech, and there is almost never any sense of irony or sarcasm in their usage.
 * I imagine that by the 18th or 19th century apples were being grown all over the country, in enormous quantities. And Americans were enormous pie-eaters, consuming far more of them than their English forebears, for example.  Since apples, dried or fresh, were available most of the year, it seems only natural that more apple pies were baked and consumed than any other kind.  Hence the phrase.Hayford Peirce 00:15, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mock pie, cobblers, etc
Really? An apple pie has apples in it? Please write more than the most blatantly obvious. --mav


 * Well, there has been a recipe around for decades now called "mock apple pie", in which Ritz Crackers are substituted for sliced apples. I wouldn't bother to make one myself, but I have been given them over the years, and you would be amazed at how much they look like, and taste like, genuine apple pies.Hayford Peirce 00:15, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

lol Mav... it is pretty blindlingly obvious isn't it :) I've tried to improve it a little... KJ

What's the difference between apple pie and apple cobbler? -- Zoe

I know you wrote that so long ago you don't care any more, but a pie has pastry and a cobbler has cake or streusely topping on it... apple crumble isn't a pie either :) KJ 04:31, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Page Protection
This page has been protected due to an ongoing edit war. Both sides of the conflict should air their issues here and try to figure out a way to resolve the conflict. This should be done in a civil manor discussing particular disagreements not personal issues. Arminius 12:12, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * The way to resolve the conflict is for you to unblock the page. You acted in an unacceptable manner by blocking it.  Chameleon 12:26, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I reverted Chameleon's additions to the article because they were POV. Changing the picture caption to read "Apple pie presented as All-American" as opposed to "Apple pie", and adding "As American as apple pie" is a common saying, which could be seen as ironic, given that apple pie is not particularly American. It may be that "American" in this context does not mean "invented in America" or suchlike, but instead "apple pie" is used as a symbol of what is folksy and wholesome, and therefore "American". This could be compared to the use of the expression "that's not Christian", which should not be taken literally but instead means "that is cruel or immoral behaviour". is an attempt to introduce anti-American bias and uses weasel words such as: "which could be seen as", "It may be that", "This could be compared to" etc.


 * The article already says that apple pie did not originate in America, and adequately explains where the phrase "As American as apple pie" comes from.


 * Based on this, I do not believe that these additions should be included in the article.


 * Darrien 12:31, 2004 Nov 20 (UTC)
 * It says nothing bad about America at all. It even implies that America is wholesome Chameleon 12:41, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I disagree. They come across as snarky and cheap.Icundell


 * Who asked you? Ah, I did.  Hahah.  Anyway, if you think the wording is harsh, change it.  Oh wait, you can't because Arminius has protected his version.  Chameleon 13:07, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * And it is quite rightly protected,and should stay so until all sides calmed down and start thinking rationally.Icundell


 * This entry was first posted on Arbitration. I'd be inclined to suggest that the two parties agree to a factual correction to one statement, so that it reads as follows: "As American as apple pie" is a common saying  due to this association.


 * The article as it stands is fine except for the incorrect implication that "As American as apple pie" is something that a non-American might say, or that apple pies, of all things, are generally regarded as having anything to do with America. Indeed the phrase most usually appears as "As American as mom and apple pie." I think we can all agree that the statement is even more puzzling in this form, unless interpreted in an ironic sense. Moms are not particularly American. Well mine isn't.


 * Having said that, I think Charles Matthews has hit the nail on the head. How about moving all the American stuff into a section titled "Apple pie in American culture."


 * I don't think Arminius should have reverted the last-but-one version, which provided a pretty good analysis of a puzzling saying that always bemuses non-Americans: "As American as apple pie" is a common saying, which could be seen as ironic, given that apple pie is not particularly American. It may be that "American" in this context does not mean "invented in America" or suchlike, but instead "apple pie" is used as a symbol of what is folksy and wholesome, and therefore "American". This could be compared to the use of the expression "that's not Christian", which should not be taken literally but instead means "that is cruel or immoral behaviour". --Minority Report 13:11, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Popular in the Netherlands too
Apple pie is very popular in the Netherlands too. Americans did not invent or introduced it to the Netherlands. You already plagiarized Santa Claus from our Saint Nicholas. Stop it! :-) Andries 12:16, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It is clear that apple pie is in no way American. When I clarified this in the article, two Americans got offended at such an important symbol being tarnished with unAmericanness and started reverting.  This is unacceptable. Chameleon 12:27, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No, that's not clear. Can there not be a section on American apple pie, though? All it would require would be a heading such as 'The apple pie in American culture'. Charles Matthews 12:31, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, it is not possible to use that suggestion because the page is protected. Also, I'd say it is fairly clear.  You may as well say "as American as pasta".  Chameleon 12:39, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Mmm! Dutch Apple Pie is my favourite - much nicer with the addition of spice. Now of course Apple Pie is not inherently American, and that needs to be emphasised. But some discussion also needs to be added to explain why it has become an Amrican icon. Jeff Knaggs 12:43, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Huh?
Hey, why the US flag? Haven't you ever heard the phrase "As Australian as apple pie"? Seriously, what is the reason for turning an article on as world-wide a food as apple pie into gung-ho jingoism? The page points out that the apple pie existed for centuries before America did - in one line - and the rest of the article is about American recipes. Either present a less biased point of view - NOW - or allow every other country that makes apple pie to write as much on their apple pie recipes. As to the phrase "As American as Apple pie"" indicating how american it is, the phrase is as American as mom and apple pie. Are you going to bias the "Mother" page in the same way? Oh, and the idea of 'The apple pie in American culture' is a good one, it would allow the article to remain unbiased while allowing some recognition of the apple pie's importance as a symbol of the U.S.

Oh, and since New Zealand is known as "The land of Rugby, Racing, and Beer", I'm off to alter all the articles on beer - can't have it referring to anywhere else in the world, now, can we? :) Grutness 12:37, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I completely agree. If others don't &mdash; I'm owing pea soup for the Finns. P.S. Don't you dare to try stick an "American"-label on my mother. --kooo 07:21, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)

Apple Pie Hegemony
I add my vote to those who think it sucks that some yank has tried to colonise apple pies as they have with the exceptionally sucky photograph. (I checked out the site that the photo was stolen from. It says "Apples are an all-American success story". Pass the sick-bag, Gladys.) --Tagishsimon (talk)

This really is childish. GROW UP
Good grief.

The problem is not bias, per se, but exceptionally poor structuring. The article is simply not encyclopeadic in any way shape or form. Unprotect it and then re-write it: The article should:
 * 1) present a proper history of the dish from Chaucer (and earlier if known) to the modern day;
 * 2) present an consideration of the dish in different nations, including a discussion of its metaphorical power in modern America. (But look up Dutch apple dishes);
 * 3) present a list of cultural and literary references, preferably with an entirely gratuitous picture of Alyson Hannigan; Icundell 12:54, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Childish how? Because it is a trivial subject? I agree, which makes the fact it has been protected more ridulous and bigoted. The importance of thing is in precedent: if we allow Americans to get away with twisting this article, they will be braver when they make POV edits to political subjects, as they already do. It is important to have a zero-tolerance policy on this. Chameleon 13:05, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Childish because this is not about American cultural imperialism, but poor writing and over-reaction. Icundell
 * I must seriously disagree with you there. You would never find this controversy at Meringue.  Is that just coincidence?  No, it's because it is not an American symbol.  Do not be naïve and do not call me childish.  Chameleon 13:22, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Your behaviour invites the charge, but I was aiming at BOTH sides. Calm down, think rationally. Bull-headed yank meets overwrought BritIcundell
 * What behaviour exactly? De-Americanising the article?  Being annoying by a sysop abusing his powers?  Chameleon 13:41, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Behaving like a boorish oaf, unable to maintain civility in discourse.Icundell
 * Indeed. First Iraq, then Apple Pies. What next? Lego? --Tagishsimon (talk)

Unprotected
I think protection was premature. I'm sure that we can all come to a compromise solution. I've added a new caption to the image - is that acceptable? Also I think the page should be reorganised and have a section on american apple pie. Another image is needed as well. One with the pie cut open to show the apples - then we can put the one with the flag in the American section. Theresa Knott (Tart, knees hot) 13:10, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * So that everyone's suggestions can be taken used, I've created a separate draft page that anyone non-bigoted can work on. Once the silly protection is removed, the content of the draft will be moved there.  Talk:Apple pie/draft.  hahah, beat ya, Arminius  Chameleon 13:16, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * That's a very good re-write that I would have no trouble supporting, except that you do not seem to know what 'ironic' means. It is not ironic, it is paradoxical (a result of it being a metaphorical, rather than literal, statement) Icundell
 * The version as edited by Minory Report is there or there abouts, IMOIcundell
 * oh sorry, I had just created an article apple pie/temp Can somebody delete it? Andries 13:19, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Indeed the page is not unprotected until the conflict is resolved. Chameleon you need to seriously correct your behavior pattern of how you deal with other users. Once the conflict is resolved the page will then be unprotected (see above). Thank you. Arminius 13:22, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * You mean my zero-tolerance of American bigots and short treatment of them? Thanks, but I won't be stopping that, any more that I will stop correcting typos or reverting advertising vandals.  Chameleon 13:38, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Uh oh, now it's escalated to a protect/unprotect war. This is really very silly.  Apple pies are not American.  Can we at least all agree on that? The picture of the apple pie with an American flag should be accurately labelled.  Something like "Apple pies have strong associations with patriotism in American culture.  --Minority Report 13:25, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I wont unprotect it again, but I don't feel it should be protected, so if another admin wants to unprotect it then go ahead as far as I am concerned. Theresa Knott (Tart, knees hot) 13:30, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about unprotecting it just yet. Let's wait until the draft article is really good first.  Chameleon 13:38, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The content doesn't concern me, the point is to get an agreement between chameleon and darrien so they will not edit war. Arminius 13:33, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Liar! Liar! Chameleon 13:38, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Unproteted (for good this time)
The page has been now unprotected and user:Chameleon blocked for this his last personal attack I will except. Edit as you will, I was already gotten assurances from user:Darrien that he will work productively with everyone.
 * I've unblocked Chameleon. Theresa Knott (Tart, knees hot) 18:21, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * In that case may I recommend that the version aat Talk:Apple pie/draft be accepted as the working draft and it replace the 'live' article?Icundell 13:49, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Icundell, I support this replacement. Andries 14:04, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I concur Martin TB 14:22, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * But please, do not present that jingo American picture so prominently with a text as if it were neutral. Can somebody please find a more neutral pic? Thanks Andries 14:29, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I don't exactly support it yet. The caption should be something like "Apple pie with baseball equipments and an American flag" or it is still going too far into the jingo stuff. Revth 14:43, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I like the American apple pie picture, but I think it's better used to illustrate the American culture section. Trying to pass it off as "An apple pie" and the like seem a bit jingoistic to me.  As someone has pointed out, the picture was originally on some jingoistic website and its name gives away its extreme cultural bias. --Minority Report 15:02, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * As a UK user, I think that if the picture is in the "Apple Pie in American Culture" section, and is described as such, there is no problem. I think that the picture serves to highlight how the dessert is viewed in America, in the same way that roast beef and Yorkshire puddings are viewed as the archetypal dish of the UK.Rje 19:19, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Apple pie and grammar
I'd just like to point out that under the Apple pie and cheese section, the line "The sharpness of the cheese combined with the tartness of the apple." is not a complete sentence. I'd fix it myself but I'm unsure what it is referring to and I currently do not have the time. Zhatt 22:41, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It's a complete sentence if "combined" is read as a verb in the past tense. Though admittedly the sentence doesn't say what the combination does or why it is appealing.

Served with Cheddar Cheese?
Apple pie is sometimes served with cheddar cheese, but don't see it mentioned in the article. Not sure what the origin of this is...New England? European? British?

CMcCrell (talk) 15:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Canadian. I changed the page to reflect this.

Ingredients
Someone is going to have to update that. When I checked the page out there was one sentance that wasn't suitable for the article.--66.183.157.15 02:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done.--VirtualDelight 16:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

"Apple pie is usually made out of apples" photo caption
Duh? Not that's it's wrong or anything, but do we really need people slapping their foreheads everytime they visit this page? Stan weller 06:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. This was added here by a, well, not all that helpful editor. VirtualDelight 09:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

As easy as Apple pie
Isn't this term common? "As easy as apple pie" is an phrase which I think could be mentioned here. Anyone has any ideas why there's no mention of that phrase? or why or how apple pies are suppposedly easy? tx--Idleguy 18:12, July 23, 2005 (UTC)


 * I've heard 'easy as pie', although not any specific type of pie. Wisco 02:50, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Apple pies are fairly easy to make, but I believe "easy as pie" without further specification is much more common. --SodiumBenzoate 05:38, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

"an apple a day keeps the doctor away"
I encourage the deletion of the following from the article:

"The Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings (edited by G.Y. Titelman, 1996),      traces the origins of the proverb to a Welsh version of 1866 or earlier:

Ate and apfel afore gwain to bed Makes the doctor beg his bread. "

Reasons to delete it: 1) not actually a proverb about apple pie 2) the proverb is surely from earlier than 1866, since "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" appears in Benjamin Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac --Fagles 01:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course it was written before 1866, you twit! It's in Middle English, which would make it written between about 1100 - 1500. So, obviously not an American proverb, because around 1100 the Americans were hunting Bison. NIN 12:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Motherhood and apple pie
Point of information: The article states that the usual expression is "as American as motherhood and apple pie." A Google search returns 255 of these. "As American as mom and apple pie" returns 493. But "As American as apple pie" returns 33,700, so that would seem to be the most often-used version.


 * While I can't say I've never heard the saying 'motherhood and apple pie' I'll throw my two cents in... I'm most familiar with the term "as American as baseball and apple pie" - and to the point above, searching Google for that exact phrase returns 525 pages (6 Dec, 2006). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.215.251.1 (talk) 16:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

I would say the key part of the expression is "motherhood and apple pie" and that it means something like "back to basics" as icons of home and childhood. So when someone says "As American as motherhood and apple pie" (or the more common "As American as apple pie"), they're not claiming either motherhood or apple pie to be particularly American; rather, they are saying that the importance of home and family is a key American concept; that home and family are the basic social unit; and that whatever they are promoting that is like "motherhood and apple pie" should be regarded as a basic need -- a safe idea.

In that sense, the expression could be used by many countries, except it wouldn't fit, say, Britain, where the family unit is not seen as the basis social unit in quite the same way, in my opinion. For example, despite "An Englishman's home is his castle," I would say the English don't see the family as the basic social unit in the same strong way that Americans do. This is arguable, but that is my sense. There is much more state interference in family life in England, and in the life of the individual. A good case in point was the jailing of the farmer, Tony Martin, for murder because he shot and killed a teenage intruder who was inside the farmer's home in the middle of the night -- even though both sides accepted that the farmer had been tormented by these intruders for months. That would never happen in America. In America, if you enter someone's home at night with the intention of robbing or hurting them, and you end up dead, that's your own tough luck. I would say this is not because of what is elsewhere perceived as American "gun culture." I would say it's the other way round: that American "gun culture" in whole or in part stems from the "motherhood and apple pie" theme, viz, that nothing -- no individual and no government -- should be allowed to disturb the basic family unit.

I won't edit this into the article as I know there's a dispute going on and I don't want to make it worse, so I'm leaving this here instead in case anyone's interested. It would be interesting to find out who first used the "motherhood and apple pie" expression. Slim 19:55, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Actually many US states are somewhat more intrusive than the UK. For instance a Utah woman with a history of drug abuse has been charged with murder because she refused a Caesarean Section and one of the twins she was expecting died. . So much for Mom and apple pie.

But this is off topic so I won't take this any further here. --Minority Report 20:51, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Minority Report, I don't doubt that some states may be more intrusive than the UK in certain instances (though I don't think "many" is true). But regarding your example, I'm not sure it's a good one. The woman refused to seek medical help that might have saved her twins' lives, after another daughter she was observed punching in a supermarket was taken into care. As the woman had a history of mental illness, it's likely she'd have been required in the UK to have a Cesarean against her will under the Mental Health Act, not just charged after the fact for failing to do it. Slim 00:44, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * You do realise that she was charged with murder? But this is not the place to discuss. Feel free to continue on my talk page.  --Minority Report 01:02, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

English people don't think of the family as the basic unit? Whatever next! What on earth does Tony Martin have to do with a sense of the family? He was a nutter who lived on his own. We don't believe that taking the law into your own hands and shooting burglars is part of "family life", you're right, although in fact, Ms Virgin, might note that Tony Blair has recently announced that there will be measures to allow the forceful defence of the home, which many had urged.Dr Zen 04:00, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Legal experts have quite rightly pointed out that the right already exists--even to the protection of property. The key modern case in this is Hussey - (1924) 18 Cr App Rep 160. Hussey had a dispute with his landlady. His landlady and some others tried to break through the door in an attempt to evict him. Hussey fired his gun through the door, wounding one or more of them. It was held that he had a legal right to use force to defend his property and no duty of retreat. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:28, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Quite. The issue in Martin's case was that he sat up all night waiting for the burglars and then shot one in the back as he was running away. He could not argue that he was defending his property in that instance. Dr Zen 23:44, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Why do Americans have the impression that they're the best at everything? FAMILY ISN'T A BASIC SOCIAL UNIT? What on earth are you talking about? However, I do believe that this paragraph, like many others on this page, (like 'The funniest page on Wikipedia', where I have attacked the Americans strongly. Hurrah.) has rather gone off topic. Take your rants about America, good men of Britain, to places elsewhere. Leave the Yanks to their Apple pie and their baseball. But believe me, when I leave, I'm taking motherhood with me. NIN 13:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Apple Pie À La Mode ?
Anyone wonder what does that phrase actually referrs to? As being the title of one of Destiny's Child songs, don't you think its worthy the mention? Or not?

And what about American Pie, the pie in the movie is obviously an Apple Pie! hehe

Omernos 00:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

A la mode means something like 'in the style...' Proper French usage would have some subsequent adjective such as 'francaise' or whatever, to indicate in what style.


 * in American usage, pie a la mode usually means it's served with a scoop of vanilla ice cream on top. Schoop 19:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Healthy?
Is apple pie healthy?--60.49.64.179 15:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It can be, if there is little or no added sugar. --67.165.6.76 02:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

No food is healthy or unhealthy, as long as you eat it in moderation. Another lesson from NIN 23:34, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

No Lock Button?
It seems to me that users without a registered account, and come users with a new account cannot edit Apple Pie, but there is no lock, and how are they suppose to know that they can't edit the page anyway, is there something wrong with this page?
 * The page is semi-protected due to consistent vandalism. I have added the lock. G.A.S 12:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Apples from seeds?
"Apple pie in American culture

In the English colonies the apple pie had to wait for carefully planted pips, brought in barrels across the Atlantic, to become fruit-bearing apple trees, to be selected for their cooking qualities, as apples do not come from seeds" "As apples do not come from seeds?" Was that sarcasm? lol

70.69.111.46 20:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)guy2759

nope.. apples of today are not planted from seeds. they use samplings of the apple they want to grow and then graft (wikipedia has an article on grafting) that sample onto a young tree.. this produces a perfect clone of the spliced on sample thus maintaining the properties on that apple :) thats why all apples of a certin variety always tasts the same and never evelves any new properties :)

i know its sounds weird, but thats the way it is :) cant quote any perticuar source though, but someone who can should add it to the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.101.210.194 (talk) 00:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

As American As...
I reverted the end of the sentence which described this phrase as metaphorical - otherwise the sentence doesn't make sense. If there's any basis for thinking that apple pies are specifically american (although this seems highly unlikely) then put it back.
 * It also has a self-deprecating meaning, as in 'there's nothing new under the sun'. Hakluyt bean (talk) 22:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Re picture with US flag/American cultural symbols
question of flag etiquette. Some people would disagree with the use of the flag in the picture. The flag is not a place mat.


 * Flag etiquette is irrelevant, please note that Wikipedia is not censored (and also remember to sign your posts). Zarcadia (talk) 10:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Apple pie
I'm having trouble finding reliable sources that agree with the text in this newly added section: I think the new section needs to be rewritten to reflect sources or removed. JoeSperrazza (talk) 01:58, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * More sources say that "French Apple Pie" has a top crust. Here are some examples, ,
 * One source says that a "French apple pie" is the same as a "Pennsylvania Dutch apple pie"
 * If there's no "standard French style" and/or there's nothing that the French do that's significantly different than anyone else then I think it can be safely removed. SQGibbon (talk) 15:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'll wait a bit for the editor who added that section to weigh in. JoeSperrazza (talk) 15:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Dutch apple pie
Raisins are indeed common in Dutch pie, as is a dash of rum. Many recipes (including those published on ready made apple pie crust mix) call for about half a pound (if not more, I typically use nearly twice that) of raisins soaked in rum to be added to the filling.

Of course the actual recipe used is different for each person cooking it. Another common variation is adding some vanilla or vanilla flavoured sugar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.232.160.78 (talk) 07:14, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The last sentence in this section (and its citation) is questionable. I know personally in my part of the US (Great Plains), the style of pie mentioned in this section (Dutch) is still referred to as Dutch. The style with a streusel topping is referred to as "French." The cited source also seems like recipe repository/blog, which is an opinion-editorial source and not as authoritative as a better source (i.e. encyclopedia, older print recipe books, etc.) Trusting a source like this and citing it is hearsay at best. 66.143.44.194 (talk) 13:04, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Drink?
In Wisconsin[and possibly elsewhere to some extent, though I personally haven't seen it anywhere else], apple pie is also the name of an extremely popular schnapps kinda drink, made from everclear or sometimes vodka, apple juice and boiled cinnamon sticks. I'd venture to say it's definitely more common [in the 15-25 age group especially] to hear somebody mention "apple pie" and be talking about a drink rather than a dessert. Would this be noteworthy enough to add on wikipedia? I can't find any sources except a crapton of recipes on google 216.183.245.66 (talk) 09:20, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It'd need independent sources, and then the issue would be whether it should have its own article, e.g., Apple pie (drink). —C.Fred (talk) 02:55, 28 December 2009


 * I know for a fact that Apple Pie (and various other names) is also a drink. I make a variant, along with several other folks in Georgia and neighboring states.  This drink is very, very popular with the convention-going crowd, owing to the fact that it is made by the gallon, has a very smooth and mellow flavor, and is potent enough that a mild buzz can be obtained after only one to two cups for most folks.  -Anonymous by choice  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.46.97.43 (talk) 14:31, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

History.
The history part is a bit short. In case anyone wants to expand it....http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/PieHistory/ApplePie.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8:B580:80B:249D:229A:6424:5718 (talk) 13:08, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Apple Pie Origin
I don't want to start bumping into the 3RR rule and start an edit war, so let me just say this here: | the source used to make the claim that apple pies originated in ancient Greece says nothing of the sort. The article starts out with an overview of the history of pies in general, not of the apple pie in particular, which is the concern of this article. Of the Greek pies, it notes:
 * "Historians trace pie’s initial origins to the Greeks, who are thought to be the originators of the pastry shell, which they made by combining water and flour. The wealthy Romans used many different kinds of meats — even mussels and other types of seafood — in their pies. Meat pies were also often part of Roman dessert courses, or secundae mensea. Cato the Younger recorded the popularity of this sweet course, and a cheesecake-like dish called Placenta, in his treatise De Agricultura."

There is no mention of an apple filling. It then goes on to note that pies as we know them did not exist until the 18th century, including the apple pie. Finally, it states that apple pies originated in England, which was the original claim made by this article:
 * "There are few things as American as apple pie, as the saying goes, but like much of America’s pie tradition, the original apple pie recipes came from England."

There simply is nothing in that source to support the contentions that apple pies came from ancient Greece.-- Bardbom (talk) 10:27, 16 November 2015 (UTC)


 * That's what I read elsewhere about the Greek link as well: in Greece the meat pie was invented. However, in contrast to what the article published on Time.com asserts, the idea to stuff pies with apples is way older than the 18th century. Here you find a recipe for "Appeltaert" (Appeltaart in modern Dutch, or Apple Pie in English) published in a Dutch cookbook of 1514, recipe number 123: Notabel boecxken van cokeryen: Appeltaerten. More info about this cookbook (in English) can be read here: http://www.kookhistorie.nl/index.htm
 * --Watisfictie (talk) 15:57, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Custard, Milk?
What about serving it with custard (creme Anglais) or milk? More common than cheese, in any case. Slightnostalgia (talk) 11:59, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Apple pie. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121028235409/http://www.usapple.org:80/consumers/all-about-apples/history-and-folklore/apples-in-america to http://www.usapple.org/consumers/all-about-apples/history-and-folklore/apples-in-america
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140715103838/http://www.hollandboutique.com/recipes/dutch-apple-pie to http://www.hollandboutique.com/recipes/dutch-apple-pie

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:34, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Apple pie. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151130011008/http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/07/04/as-american-as-apple-pie/ to http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/07/04/as-american-as-apple-pie/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131012012659/http://www.recipestap.com/more-apple-cakes-hollandse-appeltaart-aka-dutch-apple-tart to http://www.recipestap.com/more-apple-cakes-hollandse-appeltaart-aka-dutch-apple-tart
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.usapple.org/consumers/all-about-apples/history-and-folklore/apples-in-america

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:24, 8 July 2017 (UTC)