Talk:Appleby Horse Fair

Cumbria articles missing geocoordinate data
This page is listed in the Category:Cumbria articles missing geocoordinate data, however I do not believe that it needs geo-coordinate data, since it is an event not a location. I am therefore removing the category tag. aricooperdavis (talk) 18:48, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Events that are regular, and are held at the same single location each time, are usually given coordinates. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:38, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Appleby Fair - Accommodation information.
Mr Biddulph, your deletion of the edit about accommodation at Appleby Fair seems very severe, if not over-zealous.

Wikipedia is a primary source of public information about Appleby Fair, and the most frequently asked questions about the Fair relate to accommodation.

Is your edit a matter of personal preference, or are you applying a Wikipedia rule which limits the information provided? If there is a rule, it is inconsistently applied. For example, on the Wiki page for the Stow-on-the-Wold Horse Fair, it seems acceptable to list transport links, which are there primarily for the benefit of visitors.

Thanks,  William Lloyd (talk) 12:06, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * There is no "limit" to content, provided that it's encyclopaedic. And that the information can be verified. Trivia, however, is usually frowned on if there are no reliable sources discussing it. The user was quite right; Wikipedia is not a compendium or guidebook for tourism information. See the section called "Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal" on the policy page "What Wikipedia is Not", for more information. As is, this article contains a great deal of rather opinionated and unverified original research, which should either be backed with citations and rewritten in a neutral tone, or otherwise removed entirely.
 * Lastly, there doesn't seem to be a Wikipedia page for the Stow-on-the-Wold Horse Fair. I'm assuming you're talking about the primary article for Stow-on-the-Wold, which only has one paragraph about the fair. The section below it, mentioning the major roadways and the rail station, has nothing to do with the horse fair. It's a fairly standard section for municipalities, and the railway is mentioned because it is itself notable. Quinto Simmaco (talk) 20:48, 23 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you Quinto. Are you able to identify any specific opinionated and unverified information please?  My contributions have been intended as factual and neutral, and I have cited published sources in support where appropriate. I accept that Appleby Horse Fair tends to polarise opinion, and is surrounded by mythology, which is why I have attempted to provide factual information and not opinion. William Lloyd (talk) 21:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

NPOV-section dispute
Opinion stated as fact eg. ' within a week there is hardly a trace that a fair has been held' unless citations can be provided. For such a polarising event the language of the article suggests a positively biased view towards the fair. For example, stating that the 'the instances of cruelty are few' is contradicted by the statement used. In this instance the editor has made no effort to also detail the negative points detailed in the original source ,'Fourteen horses were either taken into possession by police on veterinary advice and are in the care of the RSPCA, Redwings, Blue Cross and Bransby Home of Rest because of welfare concerns and on-going case investigations – more than have ever been removed before.' Otherwise the rest of the article seems to be looking pretty good.

90.214.38.68 (talk) 00:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC) 01:01, 31 May 2016 (GMT)

I am unfamiliar with a POV SEction Dispute procedure, so please advise if this is not sufficient citation. My evidence quotes respected independent news sources, as follows:

June 2016: Eden District Council Multi Agency Strategic Co-Ordinating Group manage the official website: http://www.applebyfair.org/news/appleby-horse-fair-2016-round. The website states: “ The clean-up has gone very smoothly in Appleby, and the clean-up in outlying areas will be completed over the next few days. “

Westmorland Gazette, 2015. http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/13317696.Appleby_Horse_Fair_draws_to_a_close/ THE clean up operation from Appleby Horse Fair will be completed over the next few days. The message came from Dr Robin Hooper, chair of a group of organisations aimed at improving the fair, as it begins to draw to a close.

June 2014: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-27821309 “Robin Hooper, chief executive of Eden District Council, stated: "The clean-up operation of surrounding villages and the town centre has been praised by many."

As regards animal welfare, I have added a citation for the statement by RSPCA that it is only a small minority of people at the fair who have little regard for animal welfare issues.

I will leave the POV Section Dispute template, pending any comment on this talk page.

William Lloyd (talk) 20:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Legal Status - Discussion
Editor has marked the statement that the Fair is held by prescriptive right as dubious and asked for a discussion.

Halsbury's 'Laws of England' 4th Edition, Volume 29, Section 608 (Markets by Prescription) states as follows:

''Where a grant from the Crown is not in evidence, the right of holding a market or fair or of taking tolls may be established by prescription of immemorial user, from which a lost grant may be presumed.. An uninterrupted modern user raises such a presumption, but it is rebuttable by evidence that the user arose within the time of legal memory.''

This is precisely the circumstance which exists in relation to Appleby New Fair. The crown grant is not in evidence, but the right is established by immemorial user. (Documentary evidence exists of a Fair at Appleby on 2nd Wednesday in June for the years 1828, 1833 and 1848.)

This right may be dubious to the extent that it may be tested in court, but there is hardly an area of English law which is not dubious in that sense. Debatable would be a better description. I believe that the comment should be removed.

William Lloyd (talk) 22:01, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 1 one external link on Appleby Horse Fair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100129032831/http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk:80/collections/colldescs/gypsy/appleby.htm to http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/colldescs/gypsy/appleby.htm

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:41, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Manually reverted Jun 2017 edits to nomenclature
The Appleby Horse Fair on its website uses the word/s Gypsy/Gypsies. An edit here in Jun 2017 changed all instances of both to "Romani", erasing all the non-Romani groups included. I've manually reverted it back to the language used by the Appleby Horse Fair. Zentomologist (talk) 04:11, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Appleby Horse Fair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160611154724/http://applebyfair.org/news/appleby-horse-fair-2016-round to http://www.applebyfair.org/news/appleby-horse-fair-2016-round

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:43, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Recent courtcase (Jan 2020)
Folks, regarding animal welfare, might a mention of the following be in order?

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/prison-man-drove-foal-cart-appleby-warning-upsetting-image-705376?fbclid=IwAR2OdyGYR2-yLidXKQ3ATOvdjT_rJrvOz4-2reMRcdmPz2qlpiyXU2jcbLE

Cheers DaioftheTriffids (talk) 20:37, 22 January 2020 (UTC) Dai

Hi-jacking of this page by someone who opposes the Fair.
I draw the attention of Wikipedians to the anonymous editing of this page to further the aims of the small interest group who have been trying to get the fair shut down.

Can Bill Lloyd’s correct information be put back and the page be protected against repeated reversion to unsupported counter-factual information? 146.199.164.183 (talk) 15:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

This is what Bill Lloyd (Wikipedia author and an authority on Appleby Fair who sits on the MASCG coordinating committee for the Fair) wrote today on social media:

“ I usually keep out of social media debates, but I am making an exception on this matter, which reveals the dishonesty of at least one person who is spreading blatant lies about the fair. The Wikipedia article about Appleby Fair pointed out correctly that Fair Hill and the market fields are cleaned at no cost to the taxpayer. A few weeks ago someone (anonymously, of course) edited the page to say that these fields were cleaned 'at huge public cost.' Because I wrote most of the Original article, I was notified and immediately changed it back. The anonymous half-wit has now edited it again to say that Fair Hill and market fields are cleaned by council workers, paid for by local taxpayers. This is a deliberate lie, intended to stir up opposition to the fair, written by someone who does not have the cojones to give their name. I refuse to get into debate with anonymous liars, and will not comment further on here, but I will write to the papers to try to set the record straight. This is what we are up against. (It would be good if AFCG group could disassociate themselves from this lie.) ” Sam (talk) 15:22, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Can the anonymous edits be reverted and page protection set to prevent anonymous edits for the duration of this controversy? Sam (talk) 15:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Tabloid press as a reference
Is it usual to cite Tabloid Newspapers like The Daily Mirror in references? Sam (talk) 16:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)