Talk:Appropriate technology/Archive 1

Nothing at The University of Waterloo
The only Centre for Appropriate Technology I can find is one in Australia, one in the UK, and one in San Salvador. I can find nothing at all at The University of Waterloo. Spalding 14:14, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)
 * Likewise - I searched the site (incl advanced google search) and found nothing. I was following a lead from Wikinfo but it was wrong or out of date. --Singkong2005 13:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Stove?
Is there a stove suitable for burning dung cleanly indoors (to avoid the health problems)? The Pellet stove looks like a promising idea and has been listed on the Appropriate technology page but it appears to be a device suitable for developed societies. Any comments, please make them on: User talk:Singkong2005/Appropriate technology for developing countries. --Singkong2005 13:00, 30 November 2005 (UTC) can't see a need for "developping" - restraints are the same everwhere --Gerfriedc 15:23, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No, cost is far more important in this context. Appearance far less important. See the heading Characteristics of these technologies in this article. --Singkong2005 20:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

If you're interested in this area...
Please have a look at User:Singkong2005/Appropriate technology for developing countries and sign at the bottom if you want to be involved. The idea is to create a comprehensive resource on this topic, on Wikipedia. If lots of people get involved we can make it a WikiProject. But for now, if you have suggestions, questions etc relating to this topic but not about this particular page, then discuss it on the talk page of the page I mentioned: User talk:Singkong2005/Appropriate technology for developing countries. --Singkong2005 12:58, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Split/merge discussions
Previous discussions on this topic are found at /Split, merge. Please don't add to the archived page - any further comments should be added on this page. In brief, I split the page due to concerns that about the definition of "appropriate technology", and made a separate page, Appropriate technology for developing countries. In the end I decided that was a bad decision. Discussion followed, there was no objection, and the material was merged, with the addition of an explanation that this article uses the common definition of "appropriate technology" as technology appropriate to developing countries, or developing or isolated areas of developed countries. --Singkong2005 01:02, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Template for international development stubs
I have made a template: ap-tech-stub for appropriate technology stubs. Articles flagged with this can be found at Category:Appropriate technology stubs - I discovered that stub templates have to be approved first, so this was replaced by the International development stub template... I have made a template: international-dev-stub which can be used for stubs about appropriate technology. Articles flagged with this stub template can be found at Category:International development stubs Feel free to edit the template if you want - improve the code, or add a gif, color etc. Cheers, Singkong2005 04:46, 16 February 2006 (UTC) (updated, Singkong2005 00:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC))

Luddite?
This comment moved from the main page:
 * Luddite? I don't think so. Apptech people are not going out to stop change, or the use of technology. They are trying to show you don't have to add technology that sucks...
 * According to many historians so were the Luddites. They just get a bad pressA Geek Tragedy 17:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Schumacher
Didn't E. F. Schumacher invent the term in his book "Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered"? Spalding 02:39, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

“Smart Village” (Rural Information Technology Center) in Malaysia
I came across this reference: "The “Smart Village” (Rural Information Technology Center) concept being tried in Malaysia to make access to the relevant information and education based on cost efficient high-tech in rural areas... " - [http://tojde.anadolu.edu.tr/tojde18/notes_for_editor/note2.htm Information and Communication Technology for Poverty Reduction]. (It's a pretty general article, not much that's concrete). I can't find any other reference to this Malaysian program (apart from quotes/mirrors of this original article. It could be something to look out for. --Singkong2005 05:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Solar bowl section
I removed this (below), and put part of it (starting The Auroville community) in the Solar cooker article. That part is better suited to the solar cooker article, and the earlier two sentences don't seem to be necessary to the appropriate technology article as it now stands. --Singkong2005 03:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * In one view, appropriate technology is technology considered to be fitting for one or more specific uses in a particular locality by members of a particular community (taking into account environmental or biological factors). One example is provided by an instance among the many possibilities for direct use of solar energy in India.  The Auroville community (at Pondicherry, India) has installed a huge “solar bowl” employing solar energy for cooking. This is a south-facing 15-meter diameter mirror bowl that focuses sun rays on a cylindrical boiler.  The bowl follows the sun's position by means of a computerized tracking device.  With this boiler, steam at a temperature of 150°C can be generated, which is then utilized to cook two meals a day for 1,000 people, on clear days.  Another large solar cooker of essentially similar concept is in use at Mt. Abu in Rajasthan, India.  Obviously, these have been put in place in notably sunny climates.
 * Under External links: The Solar Bowl at Auroville

Proposed merge from Intermediate technology
Support. Intermediate technology in practice is a synonym for appropriate technology, and not used very often. It was originally used with a particular explanation by EF Schumacher (if I've got my facts right) but this can be deal with in a paragraph or two here. This article is getting long, but a better way to deal with that might be to make a new page for the section Some appropriate technologies. --Singkong2005 03:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Information and communication technology - removed sentence
I removed this: See also : LMDS, satellite internet and broadband internet for rural areas. There is some relevance to rural settings, especially in Broadband Internet access; however, it doesn't seem like appropriate technology (for developing countries/regions), to me. --Singkong2005 talk 12:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Village Earth link
I've removed the link to the Village Earth's Appropriate Technology Wiki Project. I went there, and looked through each of the 28 categories. There was a total of four articles, one of which was basically "about us". I really don't want to be unkind, but "smaller and less active" is one thing, and "practically empty" is another entirely. To be fair, the categories themselves had a bit of background text, which could arguably count as small articles, but still... I think it'd make a good addition here if it ever takes off, but it clearly hasn't come close to doing so yet. Waitak 11:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Good call. I didn't want to do it as I am very involved with Appropedia, so it could be seen as my bias. But now the VE Wiki has merged with Appropedia, so it's all good. --Chriswaterguy talk 07:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Complementary concept
Sometimes more expensive and advanced technology is used in developing countries than in wealthy countries because of a lack of infrastructure. For example, mobile phones, satellite television and and solar cells have caught on earlier in some developing countries. I don't think such a trend would be classified as "appropriate technology", but the concept is certainly related I think. Is there an accepted term for this development and have there been serious studies of it? Thanks.--Pharos 08:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC) I'm glad you wrote this, it is also related to the meaning of intermediate technology. The definition of appropriate technology given in this article (in my opinion) could be slightly better organised (will have a go at it at some point). Appropriate technology is any technology which is most suitable to the circumstances of where it is implemented. So mobile telephone networks are most certainly appropriate technology in Africa - just as coal-fired powerplants are appropriate technology for providing electricity to Nairobi (because little windmills certainly wouldn't be). It is simply not true that appropriate automatically means basic or simple - it means exactly what it says - appropriate. The reason Schumacher used the term intemediate is that he specifically meant more basic and simple technology which was appropriate for "The South", and particularly the rural South, where the majority of the world's poor then lived (now they are all moving to the cities, so the situation is somewhat different). The following is taken from the Practical Action website: "An ‘appropriate technology’ is one that enables people to satisfy their basic needs while making the most of their time, capabilities, environment and resources. To judge for yourself whether a technology is appropriate ask yourself whether it: Tkn20 00:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * meets the needs of both women and men
 * enables people to generate income for themselves and their family
 * can be designed, improved, managed and controlled by local people
 * is affordable
 * uses local skills and materials as much as possible
 * has a limited impact on the environment ... "
 * It certainly needs work on the definition, and I'd love for someone else to do it! I've put in quite a few hours on this page and related pages, but in terms of main body content rather than the introduction and definition. Partly because that kind of writing is not my strength, and also I think it would take quite a bit of research to get a good "verifiable" definition. The term is used in quite a range of ways. Yes, the basic meaning is simply a technology that is appropriate, but it is generally used to refer to those technologies appropriate to a developing setting - especially when used as a term, rather than just two adjacent words in a sentence. At least, that's my observation. So it can be used for sophisticated technology, but is less often used for something appropriate specifically to a wealthy community.
 * Btw I was very pleased recently when told by someone from Engineers Without Borders (Australia) that this was a great article. --Chriswaterguy talk 07:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Individual Submittal on Appropriate Technology Ideas....(includes Reference)
I would like to document and incorporate by reference several apparent appropriate technologies. (See the following link: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/28/3455/ ) This link discusses several appropriate technologies in posts that i authored including: "battery banks"; "'mirrored' solar panel design"; and "neighborhood waste water treatment plants". i would love to see more individuals submitting their own ideas on appropriate technologies. Some of these ideas will "take-off" for sure. Don't you think? Peace, Ken Hausle - Charlotte, NC August 29, 2007 11:41 am. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.181.40.79 (talk) 15:42, August 29, 2007 (UTC)
 * Not suitable for Wikipedia - see WP:NOT. I would propose an Appropriate technology wiki. Disclaimer: I'm involved in that wiki. This is consistent with Wikipedia policy though - no original research here, but it may be welcomed on another wiki. --Chriswaterguy talk 20:47, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Use of wikipedia to facilitate development work
I was in Tanzania this summer working on energy efficient cooking stoves, and realised part of the way through my time there that it would be really helpful if the local people at the NGO I was working with could find really accessible information on the internet for themselves, about specific technologies, including technical information about how to implement them. One of my project partners suggested that wikipedia would be a really good centralising place to put such information, of which there is a lot on various NGO websites. Would it be appropriate to start a project to put useable, technical information about things like energy efficient cooking stoves, brick firing kilns, water harvesting systems on wikipedia, as part of the sustainable development portal? Twer-el-lel (talk) 22:25, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds great to me! :-) Of course, there's more than one way to accomplish your basic objectives. Articles can be highlighted in selections boxes. They also can be linked in topics and categories boxes. Some articles might lend themselves to be organized within lists as well. I expect some of the existing development projects would be good places to continue discussing the possibilities before another project is started. RichardF (talk) 22:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Really glad to hear other people thinking about this! Wikipedia is indeed part of the solution, and that's what led me to create Category: Appropriate technology category and subcategories, and various articles in those categories.
 * However I was convinced to help start up a separate wiki as an additional resource. Wikipedia only accepts certain types of info, so for comprehensive information including how-tos, project information, research, experience and knowledge which doesn't meet Wikipedia's criteria (being verifiable and notable), as well as networking, please check out Appropedia! It's the major wiki for international development, appropriate technology and sustainability. (More about the scope at Appropedia: Project: Appropedia is different from Wikipedia.)
 * In terms of the project to put info on Wikipedia - see WikiProject International Development (ah, I see you've already joined - excellent) But as noted, this is about adding encyclopedic info to Wikipedia. If in doubt, or if you want to go beyond those limits, use Appropedia. Looking forward to hearing from you both! --Chriswaterguy talk 23:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I am already providing some practical info on the Wiki (look to my contribs for reference). However, please put zero-emission alternatives first instead of things like biomass/biofuels powered alternatives. (check out my blog for some insights here; see my user page at wiki). Also note my microgeneration article, and links to sites as PESwiki, wikia.com and howtopedia.org (the latter can also provide a base of operations for info). Emmh,... if you see any possibility for me to be employed at your org in Tanzania (I prefer Misali,Pemba or Zanzibar) let me know. PS: I also inmediatelly updated the AT page somewhat. Perhaps that some organisations noted in my intentional community-page may come in handy (This page may however be better moved to "alternative society", yet needs extra references, ... to do so). --KVDP (talk) 15:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is meant to be NPOV, and isn't really the place for making judgments on biomass vs zero-emission alternatives - that's really for other wikis, like Appropedia or the ones you mentioned. I'll check out the articles you mentioned.
 * The Appropedia Foundation is still working on funding, and hasn't employed anyone yet (even the founders). Sorry! --Chriswaterguy talk 20:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Explaination on environmental requirements to qualify for AT + foods/wood from biodiversity hotspot free zones
Is everyone OK with letting wood and foods derived from biodiversity hotspot-free pass for Appropriate technology. Examples are rice from places as China (eg instead of Sri Lanka), and the preference for grain crops as wheat, spelt, barley, ... (and derived foods as toast); as they come from northern (biodiv-hotspot free) zones. Also, tea from biodiv-free (eg Argentina), wood from canada instead of eg Brazil, and the marking of most tropical fruits and certain other (root) crops (eg certain yams) as to be abandoned. Also, a section explaining why the environmental friendlyness is important should be added: explain herein that climate change will mostly affect the developing nations (with Africa in the lead). Thanks KVDP (talk) 15:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If there are WP:NOTABLE sources discussing Appropriate technology in this way, then certainly it should be added, though probably as one perspective, as not all ap tech folks have the same emphasis.
 * If not, then as I mentioned above, it would be fine at another wiki such as Appropedia, (e.g. at Jottings on appropriate technology or a new page), as the criteria are different. But the only info that's really suitable at Wikipedia is referenced information. --Chriswaterguy talk 20:29, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Transwiki the non-encyclopedic content?
Should we transwiki the non-encyclopedic content? Well, obviously we should, but the question is, which of it is non-encyclopedic? My suggestion is, anything that has been tagged as unreferenced for a significant length of time, and I think at the moment that this is most of the article. So I'm proposing reducing this article to a basic description, with additional content on a different wiki. I added a lot of content to this article, long ago (esp late 2005 early 2006 I think). But in hindsight, there's a lot of judgment in it, as to what constitutes an "appropriate" technology. So I'm inclined to remove large portions of this article, where it is unreferenced, and place it on Appropedia. (I'll probably use Special:Export so it preserves the page history.) It goes without saying that anyone may use the content elsewhere as well, but the important thing is to make use of this (IMO) valuable content on a suitable sustainability and development oriented wiki. --Chriswaterguy talk 20:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Inclusion of other pumps
Should the shadoof, sakieh and the bucketpump (see this website) be included in "water supply"? I'm not sure whether they provide better efficiency and/or low cost to produce over treadle pumps. Please look into it and add if they still have some advantages over treadle pumps, if not never mind, as things would become unnecessary complicated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.181.231 (talk) 10:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC) Also, ISF has also made a VHF/LV transformer to allow a village to use power from high voltage lines. Perhaps this can also be included (may allow villages to supply power from micro-generators to the net for cash; known as net-metering ?) 81.246.181.231 (talk) 12:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC) Perhaps the sickle, Kama, and some survival knifes with cutting scharisteristics such as the khukri may be considered appropriate technology. Kirpi and foot plough's also seems useful technology Btw: I was wondering whether anyone knows the type of hatchet seen in "The Nativity Story" (in Mary's village). I guess that this type of hatchet (as above) is multifunctional. Don't know name dough nor that it is indeed multifunctional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.183.235 (talk) 15:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Some successes in appropriate technology

 * Sand Filters to remedy Nepal/Bangladesh Arsenic laden wells:
 * CSMonitor article
 * Journal-Abstract
 * World-Bank Review
 * PDF: PDF-Journal-Article
 * PDF: PDF-Journal-Article
 * Popular Mechanics Aug 2008 article on MITs D-Lab (Developing World -Lab) and Amy Smith's efforts: ( Note: this is the print link, so press cancel if you'd rather not print it )
 * MIT's Guru of Low-Tech Engineering Fixes the World on $2 a Day (Amy Smith wins Popular Mechanics Leadership Award Aug 2008)
 * (3 Small, Low-Tech Inventions for Big, World-Changing Problems) (AMY SMITH: My 7 Rules for Tech Design in Developing Nations)

Orchus2 (talk) 13:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)