Talk:Aquinas College, Perth/Archive 2

'''This is Archive #2 for talk:Aquinas College, Perth

Image Sizing
The images have had alot of their sizings changed by other users, and for other users with different screen settings it just looks plain ugly, i think the way it is now it just fine, leave comments below regarding this issue. Smbarnzy 11:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Images
I have removed the Low Quality images, they are unnecesary (spelling :

I will replace them with hq ones within a few days symode09 06:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Removal - Quote
All you need is a small bit of light in a dark room to light it up. The same cannot be said for darkness. Darkness will never stop light. It is only the lack of light that will allow darkness in. - Paul Kelly, Religion Teacher
 * is irrelevant to the topic, and is by a teacher on matters not really related to the school. Smbarnzy 11:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Removal - Trivia/Achievements Section

 * Aquinas won the 1998 and 1999 state solar car challenge.
 * Aquinas won the 1996 Australian/International solar car challenge.

Aquinas Diary 2006 Reference
This reference isn't correct - as there isn't one diary for each year, there is two diaries - for each semester and the semester needs to be stipulated. I have only used the semester 2 diary in my references - but this needs to be ammended. Smbarnzy 10:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible References

 * http://www.wrc.wa.gov.au/SRT/publications/landscape/precincts/precinct16/descript.html - Landforms around Aquinas College & Mount Henry Peninsula. Smbarnzy 09:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.wrc.wa.gov.au/SRT/publications/landscape/precincts/precinct16/resource.html - Landforms around Aquinas & Mt Henry. Smbarnzy 09:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

ArticleHistory and project templates
The new ArticleHistory template is slowly being rolled out, with the idea of compressing the templates on the page. It includes peer review events. A show/hide template also exists for wikiproject templates. Gimmetrow 00:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Correct?
Im not sure as to if this statement i correct...

"Initially at CBC Perth only day pupils were enrolled, but due to population growth in Western Australia during the gold rush period, pressure was put on the school to accept boarding students.[11]" - because i thought that the school originally was planned as a boarding school, which is why Brother Regis Hughes went around WA to collect funds to build the school for boarders? I may be incorrect. Smbarnzy 08:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Removal - College Uniform
This section was removed per the peer review.

Aquinas College, like most Australian private schools, requires students to wear full school uniform at all times. The college currently has two set uniforms - the Summer uniform and the Winter uniform..



In the past, the school has had fund-raising "free dress" days, where boys may wear what they choose to school if they donate a gold coin to the charity (the charity is usually an Edmund Rice charity).

Summer The Summer uniform is worn in terms 1 and 4.
 * Years 8-11 - College grey shorts and collared shirt, with crested pocket, long College grey socks and black shoes. The College jumper may be worn with this uniform if necessary. It is customary to wear this uniform throughout the First Term and in the Fourth Term.
 * Year 12 - As for other years except year 12 wear a white shirt with crested pocket.

Winter The Winter uniform is worn in terms 2 and 3.
 * Years 8-11 - Long grey Melange trousers and the College blazer are to be worn with black shoes, grey or dark-coloured socks, grey shirt, tie and blazer, a white shirt may be worn for special occasions.
 * Year 12 - Long grey melange trousers and the College blazer are to be worn with black shoes, tie, white shirt and grey or dark-coloured socks. The optional black jumper may be worn with the blazer but not as an alternative to it.

In 2006, the college announced that it would be introducing new sports uniforms and tracksuits due to the rising price of the materials used in the production of the current uniforms. The new sports uniforms were introduced in 2007 with a two year changeover period.

any enquiries about this edit - dicuss it below or ask me Smbarnzy 08:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Removal - TC History from History section
The remainder eventually moving to Trinity College, when the St Georges Terrace site closed completely in 1961. The Perth City Council had plans to develop the CBC Perth Site to build an international hotel (the now Duxton Hotel) for the 1962 Empire Games, the site was eventually sold to the Perth City Council for £267,000. Trinity College officially opened on 25th March 1962.

Any probs msg me Smbarnzy 12:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

16th Feb Article Assesment
Wow! You've really improved this article since I took a look at the PSA/JSHAA articles in July last year. Edit it just a little more and I believe you can nominate it for Featured Article status. Auroranorth 11:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Images
I have found a website with a large array of CBC and Aquinas images, here are a few of the links..
 * CBC Building - http://www.liswa.wa.gov.au/images/009798P.html
 * AC Areal Pic - http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.liswa.wa.gov.au/images/passey/009798P.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.liswa.wa.gov.au/images/009798P.html&h=288&w=383&sz=34&hl=en&start=16&tbnid=f1kplOFI8btFHM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3DChristian%2BBrothers%2BCollege,%2BWA%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den
 * Other Pics - http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search/dAquinas+College+%28Manning%2C+W.A.%29+--+Periodicals./daquinas+college+manning+w+a+periodicals/-2,-1,0,B/browse Smbarnzy 14:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Userbox
- Feel free to edit it, if you want.

DEBATE - Establishment
I am starting a discussion as to when Aquinas College was established/founded - was it 1894 or 1938? ''please leave comments/opinions below and put newest votes at te end. Smbarnzy 06:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure, check ur AC diary, it'll show it there - Symode09
 * Comment - this is a debate as to whether it should be from when CBC was established in 1894 or when it became known as Aquinas Smbarnzy 11:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 1894 and 1938 - Have as 1894 as CBC, 1938 as Aquinas - this would be a fence-sitter, but its how i feel Smbarnzy 12:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Question is this statement in the 2nd paragraph of the lead correctly stating the situation.
 * In 1937, Christian Brothers College split; with boarders and some day boys going to the newly established Aquinas College, 
 * also is this from Trinity College, Perth correctly stating when it says.
 * In 1938, St Patricks closed with boarders and some of the day students transferred to the newly established Aquinas College in Salter Point, along with some students from CBC.
 * Both statement indicate that AC was started in 37-38 and both article indicate that CBC continued at the St Georges Tce site until 62 until those students went to Trinity. What do the official school records say as to when the schools started. As I read both of these they indicate that CBC ceased to operate in 62, Trinity started in 62 and AC started in 37 with both having a historical association to CBC dating back to 1894. Gnangarra 12:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

DISCUSSION CLOSED - AC was est in 1938. Smbarnzy 10:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Infobox - Location
I think that it should be changed from Salter Point, Perth, Western Australia, Australia to Salter Point, Western Australia. It just looks pretty bad, that it has all of those little links and cramps up the infobox, if anyone has a problem with it then msg me Smbarnzy 12:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Couldnt get it to work like that, so ive modified it to be Salter Point, WA, Australia - it looks a tad neater, if anyone can fix it, then please do. Smbarnzy 12:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Staff Numbers Reference
I remember seeing it on a webpage the number of staff and threw it into the article (before i knew how to reference properly) and cant find the page again, it is pretty important and needs to be referenced - i remember getting it off a google search. Smbarnzy 12:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Flow!
The article is lacking alot of flow, and it is written largely in sentences not in paragraphs. We need an experienced editor to really go nuts here and get the paragraphs to flow! Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Images
We need some images for the History section - something from CBC definately, and maybe something new that has been constructed. Possibly a picture of the Mike Kinsella Hockey Pavillion on Kennedy Ovals aswell Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Daughter Articles
I think that the Edmund Rice Administration Wing and the Aquinas College Perth Chapel deserve their own articles - they are largely notable within the community, for their architecture and historical significance Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

History Section
This needs a massive re-write, alot of the sentences/paragraphs are poorly referenced, and just seem a bit silly. experienced editors required. Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Grammar Errors
Im not too good with English, but i feel that the article has alot of grammar errors, which has been discussed in the Peer Review taking place, and its a major problem if we are going to get this article to GA. Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Rating
I hate having to point this out, but as this article was not submitted to GAC and passed, it has not attained GA status. This is a technical, not a merit, issue - while rankings up to B are project ratings, GA is a community rating and allows meaningful input from a wider selection of the community. I have checked the last 1,500 edits at WP:GAC to come to this conclusion. The rating was introduced by this edit on 27 February 2007. If you disagree, you are more than free to raise an objection at Good Article Review, or to submit it for consideration at Good Article Candidates. I suggest reading What is a good article? and making sure each point there has been addressed (it's actually more readable than the Featured Article one, so quite easy to follow.) DanielT5 18:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought it was A-class, not B. Auroranorth (WikiDesk) 11:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Auroranorth is correct, before it was rated GA-Class it was A-Class, so i will revert it back to its original rating of A-Class, if there are any objections, please post them here or on my talk page. SMBarnZy 03:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have decided to revert what i did, and leave it to someone with some real experience. SMBarnZy 03:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Good decision ;-) I think B is about right, perhaps B+ if there was such a thing. The GA reviewer could conceivably move it to GA - its certainly not a long way off.   Best to be patient and wait for your turn in the queue.  &mdash;Moondyne 03:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW, its never had an "original rating of A-Class". It was only when Auroranorth decided to update it here  that it changed. &mdash;Moondyne 03:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal - Notable Alumni

 * Matthew Cowcher &mdash; Recipient of Fogarty Foundation Scholarship to UWA - not very notable scholarship (about 3 years old) - his brother (Jeremy Cowcher) won the same scholarship the year previous. SMBarnZy 11:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible New Articles

 * Salter Point Campus - an article on the Aquinas College propery, including the Mount Henry area, City of South Perth plans for the site (along the river), ovals, structures, westpoint facility
 * Edmund Rice Administration Wing - this article is heritage listed, but we also need to weave in a few extra facts and interestng pieces of information to make it "Notable"
 * Headmasters - some of the notable headmasters that the college has had. Smbarnzy 12:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

CBC Perth Site Plaque - Removal
I couldnt find a place for this image in the article



this is an important image in relation to the college, and i would like to put it into the History section, possibly in the "college split" section, and then have the foundation stone in "post split" im not sure at the current time. Smbarnzy 12:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Notable Alumni

 * Peter Durack QC was dux of the college (but i dont remember what year - he is already listed on here)
 * Eddie Whitnall (not sure how to spell it) is like "high-up" in the Gypsy Jokers or one of those bikie clubs in Perth i was told, he went to AC. Buti cant find a reference for it. SMBarnZy 03:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

naaa,

I don't think the pages are needed. The subjects are too specific and small to be useful

talk to symode09's or Reveiw Me! 05:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Logo /Crest
The school logo is described in the article yet, there is the cb logo. The cb logo is also with the section labelled "foundation" even though there is the foundation stone image ( above) available talk to symode09's or Reveiw Me! 05:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The school logo should only be used once in the article and it is used in the infobox, and the school logo is an adapatation of the former christian brothers congregational crest and therefore we have that image in the coat of arms section. Please see your talk page Symode09. SMBarnZy 05:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

"It was suggested on the talk page that we do not use the schools logo twice within the same article" I disagree and even if I am wrong, why is the cb logo on a page about aquinas?

talk to symode09's or Reveiw Me! 05:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The CBC logo? that is on the page because Aquinas was originally established in 1894 and was named Christian Brothers College, Perth - read the article to find out more, that why its there. Having the same image twice (i have been told) will not let this article go to FA. When we had the canning river image twice, we got done for that in Peer Review, by hamedog i believe SMBarnZy 05:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Automated Peer Review
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 17:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * When writing standard abbreviations, the abbreviations should not have a 's' to demark plurality (for example, change kms to km and lbs to lb).
 * Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Guide to layout.[?]
 * Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: honour (B) (American: honor), metre (B) (American: meter), recognise (B) (American: recognize), isation (B) (American: ization), enrollment (A) (British: enrolment), enrolment (B) (American: enrollment), program  (A) (British: programme).
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “ All pigs are pink, so we thought of  a number of ways to turn them green.”
 * “In  the year [of] 2000”
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

School Song
Would the school song be copyrighted? It is pretty old and the athur has been dead for a while --talk to symode09's or Spread the love! 04:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * From here:

"Depending on the type of material the length of protection varies. In most cases, copyright lasts from the time of creation for the life of the creator plus 70 years. After that time, the material enters what is known as the ‘public domain’ where it can be freely used without permission." Hope that answers it. Thewinchester (talk) 06:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Would it not matter if the song is in a publication (Student Diary), and that publication is copyrighted to the school? Regrdless, i think the school song is un-encyclopedic, and belongs in a student handbook - not in an encyclopedia. Twenty Years 06:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Just because it's in the student diary doesn't mean that the school owns copyright. Copyright is "owned" by the creator of the material.  the School may or may not have permission to use the material under the creators copyright, but that's irrelevant to its use at Wikipedia - we can only use it if it is in public domain or has some sort of "free" license.  (I generally confirm what Winchester said, but suggest that the term is 50 years, not 70): and to quote from another publication : "Published literary, dramatic and musical works: For this material, the duration of copyright protection was 50 years from the end of the year of the creator’s death. However, if the material was published after the creator’s death, or was published anonymously or under a pseudonym, the rule was 50 years from the end of the year of first publication."  This means that for it to be in the public domain, the author must have died before 1/1/1958. &mdash;Moondyne 03:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought it was 50yrs as well Moondyne, but my source information informed me otherwise. Nothing like two different agencies involved in copyright information saying two different things. Thewinchester (talk) 03:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries ;) The real question for the AC editors is: who is the author of the song and when did he die? (assuming he is dead). &mdash;Moondyne 03:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The school song would have been written at the earliest 1937. The school diary says nothing about the copyright of the song. I think it would be safe to say that the person who wrote it died after 1/1/58. Until we know when the person died, it wouldnt be suitable to have on the article page. Regardless of the copyright issue, i think it would be slightly unencyclopedic. Thoughts? Twenty Years 05:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * At a pinch, you could argue that copyright has expired as the author is unknown (I'm assuming that he is, but would need to know that serious effort had been made to find the author) and that therefore it was either first published under a pseudonym or anonymously, or that it is reasonable to apply the same rules that would otherwise apply. That being so, copyright expires as: "... 50 years from the end of the year of first publication."  If it was written in about 1937, you are OK.
 * Having said all of that, is it really encyclopaedic? Are there any other school article with school songs in them?  &mdash;Moondyne 05:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, i looked at the (all be it small) amount of GA/FA school articles, and none have their school song. I just feel that if you wanted to know about Aquinas College in Perth - you wont care about the song. Although. if it is to be added, i would like to see just the song itself, not a section on it. Twenty Years 07:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right - who cares about a song? My 1st reaction is its not notable.  If no other school  articles have it, even moreso.  &mdash;Moondyne 08:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Possible Artiles

 * Brother M F Redmond
 * Brother C P Foley
 * Aquinas College Junior School
 * Private School Fees
 * Old Aquinians Hockey Club —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smbarnzy (talk • contribs) 14:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

GA review

 * GA review (see here for criteria)

Lovely number of references. Has quite a number of one sentence paragraphs that need to be merged together. Overall, certainly a good article. PhoenixTwo 17:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:

Notable Alumni

 * Trevor Flugge - Past president of the Australian Wheat Board made article SMBarnZy 10:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Jono Fievez - Rowing National Senior A Team -
 * I would like to see external sources cited for the Alumni section to give it more firepower, it also doesnt harm in extending the references. SMBarnZy 12:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Former Students
I think that the Peter Spencer (football) and Craig White (football) articles should be renamed to have (footballer), not (football), wouldnt this be a more "correct" way of doing it? The Bitter End 08:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well it doesn't really matter as the qualifier is unseen in an article. WP:DAB is silent on the qualifier format and my take is as long as its meaningful its OK.  But "(footballer)" would probably be the preferred one.  See some of the article lists in Category:VFL/AFL players for ideas. That indicates "(footballer)" and "(Australian rules footballer)" are generally used.  &mdash;Moondyne 14:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 20:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)