Talk:Aquinas College, Perth/Archive 3

'''This is Archive #3 for talk:Aquinas College, Perth

People Mentioned In The Article

 * Brother V I Murphy
 * Brother V C McKenna
 * Alphonsus Scott
 * Mike Kinsella

Some of these people may be worthy of an article, althoug for new articles, i think that the Junior School is looking the best. LeBarn 08:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * David Warner

I dont think we would make articles on any of these people except maybe for David (Dave) Warner Twenty Years 16:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

School Song
I have removed the following from the article, due to its possible copyright breaches, and also due to the poor nature in which it was written. Before it is reposted, these concerns must be addressed.

Text of the song
The Aquinas College school song was written by x in y as the need for a song whihc united the school. The song is sung in full at awards nights but, usually only has the first, second and forth verses sung. The song is also sung at every assembly.

Murray Ward
- Worth a look

Alumni References
Here is the alumni section - as at 17-04-2006, i deleted all of the references, because i thought it to be unencyclopedic.

Notable alumni
Any leaver of Aquinas College is called an Old Aquinian


 * Sporting
 * Terry Alderman - Australian cricket team former member
 * David Bell - Australian Women's Hockey coach (Athens 2004)
 * Peter Bell - Fremantle Dockers AFL player, and former captain of the Fremantle Dockers.
 * Ernest Bromley - Australian cricket team former member.
 * Nathan Coulter-Nile - Western Australian cricketer
 * Paul Duffield - Fremantle Dockers AFL player.
 * Herb Elliot - Olympian - Won Gold in the 1500 metres at Rome in 1960. Former CEO of Puma in North America.
 * David Gault - Captain of the South Fremantle Football Club and current sportsmaster of the college.
 * Robert Haddrill - Fremantle Dockers AFL player
 * Tom Hoad - Eight time Waterpolo Olympian.
 * Brad Hogg - Australian cricket team member
 * Daniel Kerr - West Coast Eagles AFL player.
 * Justin Langer - Australian cricket team former member. Current captain of Somerset CCC & Current captain of the Western Warriors
 * Quinten Lynch - West Coast Eagles AFL player
 * David McGowan - Australian Rowing four (Athens 2004).
 * Tim Neesham - Australian Waterpolo team (Athens 2004).
 * Bradley Ness - Wheelchair Basketball (Athens Paralympics 2004).
 * Stuart Reside - Australian Rowing eight (Athens 2004).
 * Peter Spencer - Dual Sandover Medalist
 * Alan Toovey - Collingwood Magpies AFL player.
 * Darren Wates - Western Australian cricketer.
 * Craig White - South Fremantle Bulldogs (WAFL) Player.


 * Politics & Law
 * Fred Chaney - Senator
 * Hon. Peter Durack QC - Rhodes scholar, Former MLA & former Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate.
 * Robert O'Connor - Member of the Board of the Constitutional Centre of W.A.
 * Christopher Shanahan - Barrister (Senior Counsel in Western Australia)
 * Ben Wyatt MLA - Member for Victoria Park as part of the Australian Labor Party.


 * Business
 * Michael Chaney - Chairman, National Australia Bank
 * Trevor Flugge - Former chairman of the Australian Wheat Board
 * Peter Smedley - CEO, Colonial Mutual


 * Other
 * Ivan Banks - Headmaster of Trinity College
 * William Bryan - Captain 1st AIF World War 1
 * Richard Alan Fox - Medical physician
 * Bevan Lawrence - Spokesperson for People against the Australia Card
 * Mark Pownall - Editor of WA Business News
 * Mark Priestley - Actor, All Saints (TV series)

Sport Picture
I think we should try to get a different picture for the sporting section - the redback is a bit out of place. I propose either; A photo of the Churack Pavillion (like Scotch's page) - but that might be a bit off coz we have so many pictures of buildings OR maybe a picture of the PSA Athletics - which is coming up relatively soon - maybe of the Aquinas college crowds there - possibly as the athletes run past. Twenty Years 08:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Uniform Section
I think that the article might need to include information on the schools uniform and am going to post it here.

Proposal
Aquinas College, like most Australian independent schools, requires students to wear full school uniform at all times. There are currently two school uniforms - a summer and a winter.

In summer, a blue-grey collared short-sleeved shirt is worn with grey shorts, grey knee-length aquinas socks and black shoes. In winter, a blue-grey collared short-sleved shirt is worn, along with house tie, black belt, grey trousers, black socks, black shoes and a black blazer.Year twelve's wear a white short-sleeved shirt in both summer and winter.

In the senior school, Colours are awarded to students who perform an extra-curriculum activity such as making a firsts team or making a school band. Colours are embroided on pocket of the student's blazer, with the relevant year that the award was received embroided below.

On 4th May 2007, the college headmaster Mr. Robert White announced that the college will be introducing a school scarf, which is only to be worn with the college winter uniform.

GA comment
For the article to maintain its GA status, the logos need detailed fair use rationales. Look to other passed GA/FAs for examples. Let me know on my talk page if you have any questions. --Nehrams2020 06:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

July 10th Edits
I have adjusted many parts of the article, and am adding them in sections (eg. Lead, history etc.) to make it easier for people to see what I’m doing to the article. Im summary I have; • Changed the style of reference, from the standard format to Cite Book & Cite Web • Added all of the individual page references to the article • Changed the references, so that we don’t have 3 or 4 citation marks next to each other, in those cases they have been merged together (per. FA – Hamersley, WA) • Added the schools colours – in the boxes (per numerous other school articles) • Added the Australian flag next to the location (per. Eton College) • Added information about the fees into the lead (per. Caulfield Grammar School – FFA) • Extended portions of the History section – this is purely on notability • Added information about the schools governance to the Recent Years section of the article. (to keep it up to date) • Merged Academic studies into the lead of “Student Life” – there wasn’t much on academic studies, mainly just information on the scholarships (per. Scotch College, Perth) • Merged Old Aquinians Association into lead of “Student Life” – it wasn’t big enough to support a section on it, and the ToC was getting a tad long. (Per. Automated peer review) • Added “Arts & Music” section to the article – this is just common sense (per. Scotch College) • Added “Uniform” section to the article, the schools uniform is quite notable within Western Australia for the students knee-high socks in summer. Also added a quirky image of a junior class in their old straw hats (funning story behind that). • Added a small list of the schools Rhodes Scholars (all 6 of them) including references. This is located in the Notable Alumni section – might be better placed somewhere else, but I am unsure where. • Removed section entitled “Associated Schools” which was pretty poor. I added a link in the “See Also” section to the only school mentioned in associated schools, which was Aquinas’ sister school – Santa Maria. • Removed “Notes” section – the article explains it quite clearly. • Removed category “Churches In Perth…..” – this belongs on the Aquinas College Chapel page. • Added a few books to the “Further Reading” section – in the Cite Book Format - • Changed a few of the images in the article, which I have added to Commons, all of which are PD-Aust. Also added 2 commons category links to AC, Perth and CBC, Perth in the external links part of the article – there are some quite good images in there.
 * If you have any questions, or would like further clarification regarding anything said here, or added to the article. Please contact me via my talk page. Thank you. Twenty Years 14:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

School Song
Just a note if someone tries to add the school song to the article: it is a copyright violation. If you dont believe me, look at page 18 of Massam. It was written in the 90's by Joseph Stokes, a former parent of Aquinas. Twenty Years 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Commons Categories
Wikimedia Commons has 2 categories; one for CBC Perth, and another for Aquinas College, Perth. Both have links in the article.Twenty Years 14:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Automated Peer Review
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 15:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * When writing standard abbreviations, the abbreviations should not have a 's' to demark plurality (for example, change kms to km and lbs to lb).
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.[?]
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called  ==The Biography== , it should be changed to  ==Biography== .[?]
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}[]) in headings.
 * This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, than an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.[?]
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
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Comments from Ivo
First I'll just make a few comments based on a cursory glance. I will follow them with an in depth look at the article, which takes some time.


 * The lead will need to be expanded, if you haven't read WP:LEAD do so now.


 * The image formatting needs to be reworked. Per the MOS images shouldn't be sized. The exception is the lead image. See the MOS section concerning images. COMPLETED


 * The captions are weak.


 * I am going to suggest that you consider creating History of Aquinas College, Perth and then summarize that article here and use the main article to refer to it. The multiple section breaks seem to imply that considerable expansion could take place and that would be much better suited to a new article utilizing WP:SUMMARY, this may be something to think about as you progress.
 * COMPLETED Summarised it, didnt create the main


 * The notable alumni list should be converted to prose, it probably makes sense to integrate these people into the article elsewhere, maybe in the Student life section.


 * The Student Life section is long and vaguely defined.
 * Cut it down a bit, merged a few bits.


 * Not sure about how the three-tier education section is divided up either.
 * Kept a little of the info in other bits, del the rest, it was already dealt with in all other section of Student Life.


 * Some of sections need retitled if they are to remain, even in the case they are integrated into a new article better titles could be found. Examples are "Recent years" and "1980-2000", both are weak and redundant one another.
 * Fixed, rem history subs


 * The reference formatting needs tightened up. References shouldn't be in a "further reading" section, especially if they are footnoted, it's confusing. In general all references need: author (if available), title, publisher, date published (if available), and last date accessed (for web sources)
 * Fixed up :)


 * As for the images, left alignment shouldn't be used all that often. Again see the MOS section (linked above). COMPLETED


 * I saw some short paragraphs, one in the lead, they should be combined somehow.

I will comment on the actual content later. Hope this helps as a starting point. IvoShandor 14:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks alot! I am sleeping now, but i will get to work on it 2morow. Cheers. Twenty Years 14:33, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem, and we can discuss my comments too, some may need some explanation. Good night, I am going to go move my furniture now. : ) Well soon anyway.IvoShandor 14:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Just a note about creation of daughter articles most previously created daughter articles where subject to AfD discussions with the results being merge/delete. I suggest considering that there is too much unnecessary information and that the sections should be reduced to relevant material. 15:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

image size
imho, the image size was fine before. Undo it if you want, but, I do not think I should be :) Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 13:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry mate, as much as i agree with you, if we are to get this to FA, images need to be like that. Stupid isnt it? See above. Thats what were doing. Twenty Years 13:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason for it is that so user prefs work. If you include a size it overrides user prefs, which is especially important for those of not fortunate enough to live in a First World nation. Slower connections take much longer to download large thumbnails than they do smaller ones. That's the only reason for it. IvoShandor 13:35, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If your internet is that show, you should not be on wikipedia. I have regularly used wikipedia - they are all jpegs and therefore load very fast - should the wikipedia logo be smaller? :p Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 14:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Even many First World people do not have reliable access to broadband - I know quite a few people in Gwelup here in Perth for example who are limited by Telstra to 28.8k dialup (not even 56k). Considering Wikipedia is the encyclopaedia anyone can edit, I don't think we should start artificially limiting based on speed of connection. Orderinchaos 02:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Lot allocations
I finally got around to looking at the maps at SRO, and the acreage doesn't make any sense - article says 62ha (153ac), but I get:


 * 74a·3r·20p - 74.875 acre - Loc 37 Lot 18 (Roebuck/Mt Henry/Redmond/river - main college)
 * 34a·2r·7p - 34.29375 acre - Loc 37 Lot 4 (west to river - playing fields)
 * 2a·1r·1p - 2.25625 acre - Loc 37 Lot 2 (along the river on the west side of Aquinas Bay - bushland)
 * 33a·0r·0p - 33.00000 acre - Loc 37 Lot 3 (main part of Mount Henry peninsula - bushland)

(Source: Map F28-4 (503340) and F44-4 (?), translated to Perth 2000:13.16, 14.16, under Cancelled Public Plans)

It would appear from this that the actual area should be 109.16875 acre, as although the bushland to the southwest is owned by the Christian Brothers, it does not appear to be part of the college. I was quite surprised to note that no reserve was declared for the college, considering this is usually the *first* thing the government does when setting aside land for special purpose (even privately owned land - on the same map, a Catholic school in Como which has since become a retirement village had been set aside and gazetted). Even adding all of the four above produces a result about 9a (3.64ha) short. Orderinchaos 03:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Checked F44-4 today and there are no extra lots. It's been suggested that Aquinas may own neighbouring residential land around Welwyn Avenue, that may account for the difference. Orderinchaos 09:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Automated Peer Review - Aug 26
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Twenty Years 13:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * When writing standard abbreviations, the abbreviations should not have a 's' to demark plurality (for example, change kms to km and lbs to lb).
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.[?]
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Few comments

 * Combine the short grafs, they break up the flow (especially in the lead and history section).
 * Much of the history section could use a rewrite to eliminate the redundancy of about 70 percent of the paragraphs starting with "In 19xx".

Just a couple things I noticed at a glance. Maybe too many sections, maybe not? IvoShandor 21:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, way too many sections for an article of its notibility. --Ali K 22:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Some thoughts

 * To maintain the good article status it is necessary that all the material is verifiable. While the article and the alumni are generally well referenced, some of the Wikipedia articles on the Aquinas old boys lack references to prove that these people attended the school. I noted the following old boys with missing references but I might not have picked them all up: Peter F. Bell, David Gault, Robert Haddrill, Tim Neesham, Bradley Ness, Peter Spencer (footballer), Darren Wates, Michael Chaney (Australian businessman), Bevan Lawrence, Mark Priestley. This issue needs to be addressed as a matter of priority as these facts can all be challenged.
 * There is a blurring of the boundaries between this article and the article on the Christian Brothers College. For instance, some of the pictures in this article pre-date the founding of Aquinas College, and several of the Aquinas alumni were in fact old boys of CBC, eg, Ernest Bromley (cricketer), Ignatius Boyle, Thomas Meagher, Thomas G. Molloy, William Thomas Bryan and David Fenbury. I would suggest that the CBC article should be merged with Aquinas as it essentially duplicates most of the information already here. If the articles are not merged then the pre-1937 material should be transferred to the CBC article.
 * There are a few gaps which you might like to consider filling. The history section jumps from 1938 to 1988. Surely something happened in the intervening years. There is nothing in the article about what is actually taught at the school and what examinations the pupils take. What is the admissions process? How do the school's examination results compare with other schools in Australia? The section on the school uniform is unencyclopaedic and should be cut. School years need to be translated into ages as they will be unfamiliar to anyone not from Australia. Finally, the article would benefit from a stronger lead, summarising what the school is all about. Hope this helps. Dahliarose 21:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I would oppose a merger between CBC and Aquinas. The relationship between the two is not as strong as is being indicated in this article. I would go so far as to say that "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers College" is a load of rubbish.

It is true that Aquinas obtained its initial enrolment from CBC ranks. But Aquinas was not a continuation of CBC, and CBC continued to exist, under that name, for another 24 years after Aquinas was established. CBC eventually became Trinity College; in this case it is a clear continuation of the school under a different name.

If the CBC article is to be merged into anything, it should be the Trinity article, not the Aquinas article. But I don't think that is necessary or desirable.

What this article needs is to be rephrased so that it doesn't claim CBC's history to itself. Aquinas started in 1937; any claim to the contrary is mere vanity.

Hesperian 00:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * ditto what Hesperian said. For as long as this article has been around there has been this inexplicable push to assume an unreal level of descendancy (is that a word?) from CBC.  They were different schools and need separate articles. &mdash;Moondyne 02:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * descent? Hesperian 04:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Class descendancy seems decent. &mdash;Moondyne 05:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The re third point raised, its a high school so there's nothing exceptional or unique from any other high school in Perth with regards to whats taught. Comparisons between schools on academic results arent encyclopdeic, the become POV riddle WP:SCHOOLCRUFT. Admissions process is nothing unusual just cough up the cash and childs in. Agree the uniform isnt necessary, but its part of the overall identity. Western Australian School Ages probably could have a stand alone article currently its different from other states, and the historical changes of school leaving age would be of interest, then it would could be linked from all WA school articles Gnangarra 03:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think alot of users have infact missed the point here by a long mark. The thing about which school is the daughter schools of CBC is infact as represented in the article. When CBC Split, Aquinas effectively became CBC (it took basically all of the students, it took the PSA membership, school colours etc) If Aquinas was infact a new school, then it wouldnt just take these things with it.
 * To state that Aquinas started in 1937 is not only misleading, it is also false. 1996 was Aquinas' centenary year (as proclaimed even on the whole school picture), hence the title of Massam's book "Images of one hundred years at/of Aquinas College, Western Australia".
 * To Claim CBC's history is 100% correct, as noted in the Minutes of the PSA Sporting Association it states (words to effect) "to note the changing of the name of Christian Brothers to Aquinas College". Massams book on the school also claims the history of CBC. Twenty Years 08:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In reply about the big gap between 38 and 88, this is OK, because nothing really happened that was notable. Massams text mentions little that would be notable (eg. few extra buildings and few extra sports fields) some info is documented (memorial oval in campus section), few bits of sporting stuff. Twenty Years 08:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The admissions process is largely around "have you got the money?" as with all private schools in WA pretty much, so that is NN. The curriculum is the same as all others, except for the service learning program, which is talked about in the article. Twenty Years 08:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * To state that there is any sort of continuous connected between CBC and Trinity College is completely unfounded, considering that there is a six year gap between the closing of CBC and the opening of TC. Twenty Years 08:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Where was there a six year gap? Is this explained in the article(s). To clear this in my own mind, the following is the timeline of significant events - correct me if I am wrong... Assuming the above is correct, the facts speak for themselves: If anything TC has greater rights to claim descendancy (!) from CBC than AC. Using the continuity of school colours and off-hand references to a rename is giving undue weight to interpretations over fact - CBC and AC are two different schools. To say "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers College" is misleading.
 * 1894 - CBC in SGT opens
 * 1937 - St Patricks closed with boarders and day boys move to AC (wrong, St Pats closed in 1961 and became incorporated into TC. In 1938 a number of St Pats boys moved to CBC Perth, however the school continued successfully for many years before student numbers declined during the 50s) Lucy 2013
 * 1937 - CBC boarders and some day boys move to AC
 * 1938 - AC opens for business
 * 1961 - CBC closes
 * 1962 - TC opens, taking the remaining CBC day boys

You said that AC "took the PSA membership" [in 1937]. Did CBC cease to be a PSA member from that date? Did it not continue to operate as a school (albeit a much smaller one) between 1937 and 1961? Can you support the claim? &mdash;Moondyne 09:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * AC did take the PSA membership, hence the quote from the minutes, which states that it changed names. CBC was not a member of the PSA after 1937 (ac took all of its sporting records). Your timeline is 100% correct, and i myself dont quite know where i got this 6 year gap from (im a bit all over the shop today). In the PSA Athletics Guide (2005, 2006 and 2007), it states that the PSA was founded by the four headmasters of SC, The High School (now Hale School), CBC (now AC), and GGS. Twenty Years 09:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I seem to have opened a hornet's nest here! As there seems to be some dispute as to which school claims descent from CBC then it seems logical to expand the existing CBC article and incorporate all the historical information, including the CBC alumni, into that article. As someone who is unfamiliar with any of these schools it does seem very odd at present to have a large history section on Aquinas College which is devoted to a school of a different name. Regarding some of the other points raised above, you say that the curriculum is the same as at all the other schools in Western Australia, but the WA curriculum is not familiar to readers in America, the UK and elsewhere so it needs some explanation and is of legitimate encyclopaedic interest. For example, which foreign languages are taught? Do all private schools in Australia follow the same curriculum? Is there a national curriculum in Australia? Do pupils do the International Baccalaureate or A levels or is there an Australian equivalent? Perhaps there are other articles which explain all this which you could link to but at present the non-Aussie reader has no understanding of what is taught at the school. If the school doesn't have a selection process you need to make this clear. Many private schools in the UK are academically selective and pupils normally have to pass the Common Entrance Examination. Is there not an Australian equivalent? Dahliarose 09:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think linking this to another article would be the best way to deal with it. The curriclum revolves around the Western (or West) Australian Certificate of Education (WACE), which is the same as the majority of schools in WA, some have the IB in middle years. To put this into context for you; Aquinas is more about sport than academics. Academics plays a very small role in school life, and this is reflected in the article. Aquinas is essentially a sporting school, hence its domination in a large number of sports over a sustained period of time. Twenty Years 10:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Academics plays a very small role in school life,... I trust that the parents who fork out $12k pa don't read that! (I think you're wrong BTW). With due respect to the minute taker and the editor of the PSA sporting guide, they are wrong too. &mdash;Moondyne 10:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe i am looking at it too historically, very much in the early days of the school sport was EVERYTHING (read the article and intellect does seem amiss Lucy 2013 ~ tongue-in-cheek, the AC page is poorly written, it may not be quite the same, but sport is put above pretty much all else. The text of the PSA guide, reads similarly to the PSA article actually, whether or not you think its wrong is irrelevant. This is from the PSA's perspective, and you have to remember that. So it may not reflect 100% accurately what happened, it is afterall just one perspective. We must not forget that Massams text (1998) is titled "100 years of Aquinas College, Western Australia". Impliying that AC stated in 1896 (CBC est). Twenty Years 10:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

What I want to know is, in 1945, which school was CBC: CBC or Aquinas? Hesperian 10:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It goes something like this:
 * In the eyes of the PSA: Aquinas.
 * In the eyes of 2007 Aquinas: Aquinas
 * By taking the view that AC is completely separate from CBC, you are making the RS that is Massam look like a liar. Twenty Years 11:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Straw man argument. I don't see Massam being portrayed as a liar, rather she has taken some poetic license in the book title which shouldn't be read literally. CBC is part of the history of AC, by virtue of both being run by the Christian Brothers, CBC students transferring to AC and (I'm guessing) AC taking over the pre-eminent role as the major catholic school in Perth immediately after 1938 due its size.  But they are different and CBC wasn't simply renamed AC as you seem to be arguing.  Its a bit like saying the Fremantle Dockers were originally the South Fremantle Football Club or East Fremantle Football Club. &mdash;Moondyne 11:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC) Hmm ... I'd say South Melbourne/Sydney & Fitzroy/Brisbane would be more pertinent examples. Lucy 2013
 * Youve put it well. CBC is part of the history of Aquinas, and therefore it deserves the mention it gets in the article. Twenty Years 11:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

My take on this is that CBC opened up St Patrick's College. St Patricks College was a part of CBC in the sense that it was run by CBC, but it was separate in the sense that it had its own grounds etc. Eventually St Patricks gained its independence from CBC, in the process becoming Aquinas. CBC proper continued on, eventually becoming Trinity. Probably the aspects of CBC that went to Aquinas (colours, medals, PSA membership, etc) were aspects that were more properly associated with St Pat's than CBC proper. If we accept St Pats as the ancestor of Aquinas, then Hallam is entitled to refer to the 100 year history of Aquinas, and so are we. But to refer to "when [Aquinas] was named Christian Brothers' College" remains a load of rubbish. CBC didn't become Aquinas if it continued to be CBC. Hesperian 12:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Points of order: St Pats did not become AC. Along with CBC Perth, St Pats became part of TC in 1962. TC is the continuation of CBC Perth and the custodian of St Pats Heritage. However, it is acceptable Catholic duplicity that the school achievements of CBC Perth prior to 1938 belong to AC. This fact remains part of the heritage and rivalry of CBC Perth post 1937 (including TC from 1962) and plays a wonderful part in the competitive history of sectarian PSA sports. AC success in PSA sports have led to the chants, "kill the Micks". However, these chants are not directed at TC because it is understood that TC, along with its Protestant cohorts, love to beat AC in school competition. Indeed, TC sees beating AC as highly prized as well as necessary in order to win PSA school premierships. It is clear, the two schools are part of a schism that began with CBC Perth. The best resolution is for AC to remain custodian of CBC history prior to 1938 and for TC to remain the continuation of CBC Perth from 1938. At the same time, CBC Perth or Christian Brothers College deserves recognition for its unique history from 1894-1961, and this should be tabled by a separate Wikipedia page. It's a bit weird but it's true, AC is the usurper of CBC heritage and TC is the salvation of CBC's heritage. It's what makes AC & TC arch-rivals like a good old Irish family feud. Lucy 2013


 * The problem seems to be that the current article is over-reliant on just one secondary source (ie, the Massam book <<< if she has been cited correctly, then she has got the closure of St Pats wrong. Premier Ray O'Connor graduated from St Pats in 1943 and St Pats is referenced according to ACC history in 1951 when it withdrew from ACC competition due to declining numbers. Lucy 2013). Independent confirmation of the facts (or interpretation of the facts) is needed from other secondary sources. There will be contemporary newspaper reports about the schools. The schools will quite possibly be mentioned in local histories of Perth and presumably in books on the Christian Brothers. All these sources need to be checked to write an objective article. Dahliarose 12:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We should not get into interpretations of whether St Pats became AC. Basically what happened is that CBC Split: All boarders of CBC and St Pats went to AC (some day boys too), and day boys continued at CBC. Massam mentions little of St Patricks, it was mentioned once (it being closed). I think maybe what the author is trying to impart on us is that boarding was the main part of CBC, Regis Hughes travelled the state collecting funds from farmers to build the school, and as such when the boarders went to AC, they took all of that history? maybe its slightly skewed, and is mis-represented by the text, after all it was actually commissioned by the school itself (and published by UWA press). The trouble we have in the article is that: the PSA has one view, massam is pretty similar, and how certain events took place promote another. Twenty Years 12:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You have baldly stated that in 1945, Aquinas was CBC, and CBC wasn't CBC. How do you do that with a straight face? CBC cannot have become Aquinas in 1939 if it continued to be CBC for another 24 years. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise. If you won't accept that, then I must insist upon a source for the claim. What source supports this notion of yours that CBC became Aquinas, and precisely what does it have to say on the matter? Hesperian 13:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Its a difficult concept to gather, and i understand that. But if you look at the PSA Minutes (stated in the AC article, avail at the Battye), it states "to note the changing of the name of Christian Brothers to Aquinas College", basically it is saying what i am saying. Basically, CBC became a new school once AC was started: it had no boarders, had no PSA membership, even the school colours were taken. I must admit here that i have no documentation on what happened in the 24 years. But to say that CBC was not part of Aquinas' history is both false and misleading, and that is all that matters.
 * I think we have gotten quite a long way off topic, and we have infact gone into debating the history of the school, Aquinas' claim to certain parts of history etc. I have started a section below where what you think needs to go, should be put, and we debate each individual piece on its merits. To note that Massam, included everything of CBC from 1894 to 1937/8 and then only included Aquinas is what i went by, as i couldnt have sources for the rest. Twenty Years 14:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, well ive come to the decision of this: The article is adequately sourced as it stands. Aquinas does have some relation to CBC, and no-one doubts that. Now that it does have some relation to CBC, it does deserve to infact include that information in this article, to do so, would make the article incomplete. All of the information contained in the article is backed up by a reliable source. The only problem i can see from the arguments that are being placed is the sporting section, where it states that "under its former name of CBC Perth, Aquinas was founding member PSA etc", but this is indeed correct, according to the account of it by the PSA, where the minutes state: "to note the changing of the name of Christian Brothers to Aquinas College". So until someone can bring up some Concrete proof (ie backed up by reliable sources) that the article is indeed incorrect, it shall remain. Thank You. Twenty Years 14:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The article is not adequately sourced as it stands as all the available secondary sources have not been consulted. The article relies too heavily on modern sources (they are all from 1998 onwards). There are four further books listed in the Further Reading section all from a much earlier date, and none of these have been used. These sources should all be consulted as a matter of priority. Contemporary newspaper reports will probably be the most reliable source for the naming of the various schools. As CBC clearly operated as a separate school until 1961, albeit as a day school (as confirmed in reference 7), then I cannot see how it can possibly be justified to incorporate the entire history of CBC into an article on Aquinas. The existing CBC article is little more than a stub and bizarrely has more information about Aquinas and Trinity than it has about CBC. Dahliarose 15:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

History Section
OK, regardless of whether AC was CBC and all of that stuff. The information in the history section regarding CBC is OK to keep? Twenty Years 13:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Sporting Section
Is the information in the sporting section OK to keep? Twenty Years 13:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Disputed
I have tagged the article disputed because of the claim that CBC became Aquinas. As I've said above, this is prima facie false, and therefore requires solid sourcing. I have tagged it totally disputed, because I think this is indicative of a general bias in favour of the school. Hesperian 23:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think all of the issues have been resolved, is it ok to remove the disputed tag? Twenty Years 12:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Scenario
TY, re-reading the above, I see you seem to think that I consider CBC to be completely distinct from Aquinas. I do not. But I am certain that the relationship between the two is not simply that of a continuation with name change.

The scenario that is emerging for me is that the CBC split, and, like a divorce where one person takes the house and the other takes the furniture, one half of CBC retained the name and the grounds, while the other retained the sporting records and memorabilia, the schiool colours and the PSA membership. Thus from the point of view of the PSA, the membership was transferred into a different name, and so their name change comment in the minutes is understandable. This would also explain why Massam is happy to include CBC history within the scope of a book on Aquinas, despite the fact that CBC continued on in name and became Trinity. And it would explain why Trinity also identify themselves with the long history of CBC.

All of this is of course just guesswork. But my narrative fits the available facts a hell of a lot better than your name change theory. Now I know guesswork isn't acceptable, but the fact remains that you have a collection of facts and sources that are difficult to reconcile; yet they must be reconciled. Any serious scholar would be intrigued by this mystery, and eager to get to the bottom of it, to find out just what happened in 1937. No serious scholar would be content just to write "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers' College", and leave it at that.Hesperian 00:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, i think weve come to an agreement here that AC does have links to CBC, but TC has stronger links. So thats agreed. What parts of the article need to be removed/changed to meet your requirements? Personally, i can see that about half the history section is based on CBC and the move to Salter Point, but thats probably the most notable part of the school. So why dont we get down to content here: what needs to be changed in your opinion Hesp? Twenty Years 08:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You need to remove or refactor any assertion that CBC changed its name to Aquinas, that CBC was a previous name of Aquinas, that CBC became Aquinas, or anything else that implies that these two schools are one and the same. Hesperian 11:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Whilst, i disagree with the move in the sporting section, i think it has to be made: i have removed under its former name (which does have a citation btw) to "under the name of Christian Brothers’ College", which in no way affiliates itself with once being CBC. This is the only problem i see. I will leave it to Hesperian to remove the disputed tag, as he placed it there, and i want his approval. Twenty Years 14:21, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No. Aquinas was not a founding member of the PSA. CBC was. Aquinas and CBC are not the same school. Hesperian 02:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that the problem here is that "in the eyes of the PSA, Aquinas is CBC". How do you think it should be worded then. Twenty Years 03:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that the problem here is that in your opinion in the eyes of the PSA, Aquinas is CBC. You don't have a scrap of evidence for that, except for a single phrase in some unpublished minutes, which is open to various interpretations, some of which fit the facts better than the one you've chosen. Hesperian 05:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Second sentence of the opening still says "It traces its origins back to 1894, when it was named Christian Brothers' College". Thats gotta go or be changed. &mdash;Moondyne 03:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * But, it does trace its origins as a school back to that date, because its enrolment came from CBC. I'll give it a go of changing it. Twenty Years 03:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, so "it traces its origins back to 1894" is entirely appropriate. But "it was named Christian Brothers' College" is bulldust. Hesperian 05:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * (reduce indent) just had another read of some material, and have re-worded the lead to say that Aquinas is the child-school of CBC, and the sporting section, that states "Aquinas College is a member of the Public Schools Association of Western Australia, when Aquinas was established in 1938, it took with it all of the sporting records of Christian Brothers' College", which summarises the end result of the "divorce". Twenty Years 03:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Getting much better, well done. Wording is a bit clumsy now though. Perhaps convert to chronological order:
 * CBC was a founding member of the PSA;
 * CBC perceived themselves to be underdogs who had to work hard to build tradition at the school: [and then your quote]
 * Then Aquinas was started up it took with it the sporting traditions and records of CBC;
 * In 1910 and 1942...
 * Aquinas became a member... in 1958...
 * Aquinas' unique position was highlighted in 1967
 * This is just a suggestion; I don't mind if you ignore it. As long as the article is accurate, I have no beef with how you write it. Hesperian 05:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Disputed facts
I've added some cite tags as there are still a number of facts which are questionable and possibly misleading. I might have misunderstood but it is very confusing to someone who is unfamiliar with any of these schools. The article states in the sports section (without a reference) "when Aquinas was established in 1938, it took with it all of the sporting records of Christian Brothers' College." From this statement I would guess that Aquinas became responsible for the sporting archives of CBC which is a very different matter to being given permission to claim that all the historic CBC sporting records would henceforth be credited to Aquinas (eg, the later claim that "In 1910 and 1942, Aquinas won every PSA Sporting trophy available". The same applies to the CBC alumni. As it is now apparent that CBC and Aquinas are two different schools any claims that CBC alumni should be credited to Aquinas rather than CBC or Trinity must be backed up with suitable references from reliable sources. Dahliarose 12:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree; alumni listed here that actually attended CBC should be removed to the CBC page. Hesperian 12:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ive added citations to all of the information you tagged with fact tags. I have moved all alumni you have placed a fact tag on too. One question: what should be done with Peter Durack, he attended CBC and AC, he graduated from AC though, so i kept him on this page, but he might also be mentioned on CBC (i didnt add him, but he might be noteworth on that page). Twenty Years 12:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fine, he attended AC. Hesperian 12:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sporting Image
I notice that me re-adding the image got reverted. I know it is of CBC students, but i think that this historical image is fine, because effectively Aquinas took the sporting element of CBC, in that it took all of the trophies. Thoughts? Twenty Years 12:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Sport Section
In reply to Dahlia's removal of 1910: "Aquinas took all of the sporting records of CBC", as such Aquinas owns that record. Twenty Years 12:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I suspect this claim. Can you tell me exactly what those PSSA minutes say? Do they actually literally say that Aquinas took all of the sporting records of CBC? Or have you extrapolated from a lesser claim? Hesperian 12:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I cant tell you exactly what they say word4word, but they do claim that, i can guaruntee that one. Its in the Battye if you want to go and check it up. Twenty Years 12:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I do believe Massam also mentions it, i have easier access to that book, so I may find another ref for it from that book. Twenty Years 12:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you need to check the exact wording of the source from which you derived the statement "When Aquinas was established in 1938 it took with it all of the sporting records and achievements of CBC Perth". It would be best if this substantial claim could be backed up with a second reference. I cannot see how a school which was only named in 1937 can possibly be able to lay claim to a 1910 sporting record of its predecessor school. As I said above, it seems most likely that Aquinas inherited the sporting archives, but a new school can't possibly lay claim to the inherited records of an earlier school and claim them as its own. I would suggest the 1910 claim is removed unless it can be backed up with another reference. Dahliarose 12:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, in the eyes of the PSA, Aquinas is CBC. Effectively CBC has no sporting history pre-1938, because Aquinas took it when it left the Duxton site. Twenty Years 13:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If that is the case you need to back it up with references. Otherwise it is just your point of view or possibly a misleading interpretation of the facts. Dahliarose 13:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is backed up by the 103rd Annual PSA Athletics Guide, and PSSA minutes, which are stated in the article. If that isnt good enough, then what is? Twenty Years 15:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have removed the fact tag placed next to 1910, as the reference backs up the statement. To be forced to cite more than one reference is not only incorrect it is a waste of time. But, maybe you could look at the 102nd Annual PSA Athletics guide, which says the same thing, or ever the 101st Annual PSA Athletics Guide. There it is: 3 references to back it up. Adding a fact tag to that section will now be treated as vandalism, please comment on it below. Twenty Years 15:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Adding a fact tag to that section will now be treated as vandalism" is unhelpful tone in this discussion. Please retract it as this issue is as yet unresolved.  I understand your frustration in this not being resolved but can you not see the perplexing contradiction between the your sources and the timeline of events.  Possibly the editor of the PSSA guide has used some poetic license.  Or possibly what he/she's saying is true.  Another secondary source is what's needed here. - exceptional claims require exceptional sources. &mdash;Moondyne 16:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * All i said was that Aquinas took the sporting records of CBC, it is hardly exceptional. But being the person i am, when i get time to have a look at Massam again, i will get the page reference from that. Twenty Years 18:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not have access to either records which is why I asked for clarification of the wording. Do these sources confirm that CBC was called Aquinas in 1910 (which is what the current wording of this sentence claims)? Do these sources confirm that Aquinas, a school founded in 1937, is entitled to claim all the historic CBC records as its own. It seems most unlikely. Dahliarose 15:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Here is what it states: It states that Aquinas won all five PSA sports in 1910, and 1942. It says that Aquinas owns all of CBC's PSSA records. Considering that this publication holds alot of historic information regarding the PSA, and this probably being the most noteworthy event, it seems extremely likely, maybe? Twenty Years 15:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I might have a quick look into this tomorrow when I'm in the Battye - they have up to the 79th annual athletic meeting programme (1983) on serial stack, but as this information is historical, it shouldn't make any difference which edition it's in. Trinity's website appears to confirm that Aquinas was carved out of CBC, the CBC continued, was renamed as Trinity in the early 1960s, and Trinity became a PSA member in 1968. The PSA commenced in 1905, the serial stack item will probably list which schools were founding members. Orderinchaos 16:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

sports section (cont'd)
TY, guys, I'm quite prepared to believe that Aquinas took the sporting records of CBC. In fact it makes good sense. Once CBC realised that they had outgrown their grounds and had to split, the next question became how to split the student body. Sport was everything to them, so the last thing they were going to do was to split the Rowing First IX down the middle, and end up with two weak crews. Ditto cricket; ditto Rugby. I'm sure they were very quick to decide that all their sporting teams had to stay together, so as to preserve their tradition and position on the PSA rankings. Probably their first instinct was to keep their sportsmen at CBC, but then they realised that the new grounds would have far better sporting facilities. Therefore they would have wanted to transfer all their sportsmen to Aquinas, but it would defeat the purpose if their records, traditions, and PSA membership remained with CBC, which had just been gutted of all its sporting talent. The solution, then, was to apply to the PSA to transfer their PSA membership to Aquinas, and to have that transfer treated as a name change, with all the tradition, records, etc of CBC moving to Aquinas. A little sleight of hand, perhaps, but not unreasonable under the circumstances.

Now, take a deep breath, Twenty Years, take a seat and read on:

Just because the PSA agreed to treat the split as a name change, doesn't mean we have to. As historians looking back at the past, we can acknowledge that this agreement happened, without feeling bound by it ourselves. I maintain that the sporting milestones, achievements and travesties of CBC pre-1938 should be discussed in the CBC article. The Aquinas article need only say:
 * "When Aquinas broke away from CBC, it was arranged for CBC's PSA membership to be transferred to Aquinas, with all sporting records intact. Thus, for example, the 1910 achievement of CBC in winning every PSA trophy is attributed to Aquinas within the PSA."

And then straight into the post-1938 material. Hesperian 05:53, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup, im cool with you adding that in there somehow (i cant figure out a way to do it without making it look dicky. And i agree that this also needs to be discussed in the CBC Article. Although i dont agree with your reasoning, it seems somewhat alright. I have come to the conclusion that Massam was merely trying to repesent AC's view on the topic, afterall she is making the book for Aquinas. Twenty Years 07:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

FA
I believe this article fulfills WP:WIAFA. Auroranorth (sign) 11:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The major issues are the prose, which need alot of work. There are alot of short sentences in all of the sections that need to be merged. Alot of the information is just plain boring. The image captions need to be fixed. the Lead does not summarise the article adequately.
 * Ive asked for the league of copyeditors to have a go at the article, but there is a large backlog there. It needs a thorough peer review before it should even be considered for WP:WIAFA. Just my thoughts. Twenty Years 12:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Twenty Years, when they wrote the encyclopedia Britannica, they were not out to write "an exciting and thrilling read for the wole family". The Point being, if someone were to use this page for research, they would be rather unhappy if they found out that someone removed facts and information, in favour of making the article more exciting. (though I am not sure to which parts of the article you refer). I know you have been a big part in helping to develop this article, but saying it can't be featured because it is boring is a bad excuse :) --Yungur (talk) 08:48, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

50 Year Plan
Is anyone else aware of the 50 year plan for Aquinas College, I think it should make a very important addition to this article. I have a reference of the 50 year plan, containing "some" good information and very useful diagrams, I shall attempt to upload a photo of it (my scanner is broken) and if Symode09 is still active, I know he will have a copy that he can scan in high resolution. --Yungur (talk) 08:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have uploaded photos of some of the information to wikimedia commons, they can be found at the following urls:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan1.JPG

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan2.JPG

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan3.JPG

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Aq50yearplan-map-diagram.JPG --Yungur (talk • contribs) 09:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Aquinas College Land Value
The following article states that Aquinas College land value is worth in Excess of 1.2 billion dollars (and thats just the land not including facilities eg: the main castle would be worth a lot for look and historical reasons, the ovals would be worth alot for their condition etc). I think that is a good bit of information, I will look for a place to add it in, maybe in the introduction. reference:  --Yungur (talk) 08:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have added a short bit on the land price to the first paragraph under "Campus", however I think it might be a good quick fact for the introduction, and it would most probably get people more inclined to read the rest of the article, I mean, thats an impressive land value :) --Yungur (talk) 08:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have removed that it is valued "in excess of 1.2b", the article says 1.2bn so i have ammended it as such. Does anyone know what day the article was from? Twenty Years 18:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That figure of $1.2 billion dollars is incorrect. The school had the land valued a couple of years ago at less than 300 million, due to how the land is zoned and other factors. The article that contained the quote of $1.2 billion was made by spin doctors working for the government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.138.93 (talk) 07:40, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * you should take that up with the source not the article, and I am pretty sure you will find that with inflation and high property values the school would be worth well in excess of 300 million.. Yungur --Yungur (talk) 07:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.169.252.160 (talk)

Bullying
hmmmmmmm, I actually agree with his addition, it is common knowledge among the community Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 04:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:V. Hesperian 04:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Couldnt have said it better myself. Twenty Years 17:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Ask anyone in th year 11 cohort :) if you would like, I can make a video and upload it to commons :) Talk to symode09's or How's my driving? 09:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Symode09 (talk • contribs)

List of Headmasters
My query is really quite trivial & hardly seems worth messing with a clean talk page. The list of headmasters has Br. J Hann 1975-87. Weren't his initials T.X. rather than J? I seem to recall he was known as 'Tex' for that reason. GlenDillon 16:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Found Colour Photo of CBC Perth
in case it is of any use to the article, I am happy to announce I have found, and uploaded, a colour photograph of the old CBC Perth building. Looking at it in colour is quite interesting, it's a very beautiful building and a crying shame that they demolished it, but it also show how very similar it is in look to the Aquinas College main building (aka: the castle). I have added it here and if anyone feels it should be in the actual article feel free to put it there, but I don't want to just go and change the article without some consensus, I recall when we were originally writing this article there was a lot of nit picking at relevance and cutting back etc.. and I don't want to get into all that again.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Yungur (talk • contribs) 06:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * IMO, it might be better placed in the article on CBC Perth, than Aquinas. Five Years 05:34, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Aquinas College, Perth
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Aquinas College, Perth's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "AISWA": From Wesley College (Western Australia):  From Trinity College, Perth:  From Hale School:  

Reference named "History": From St Laurence's College:  From Trinity College, Perth:  From Santa Maria College, Perth: </li> <li>From St Virgil's College: </li> <li>From St Joseph's College, Gregory Terrace: </li> <li>From St Patrick's College, Strathfield: </li> <li>From Rowing Australia: </li> <li>From Xavier High School, Albury: </li> <li>From St Columban's College, Caboolture: St Columban's College History. Accessed 2010-04-04.</li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:16, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

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