Talk:Aranyosszék

Thank you for including the Romanian name (Scaunul Arieş). Are you sure this was the historical Romanian name? Or it has recently been invented? There are very few Google results (34), it seems to me that it is very rarely used by Romanian speakers (in contrast to the 15200 hits for Aranyosszék). And what was the reason for deleting the English translation? What was the reason for deleting the reference to Cluj County? --KIDB 20:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Please provide evidence that "Scaunul Arieş" is a real historical Romanian name and not a modern translation of Aranyosszék. --KIDB 07:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, "Scaunul Arieş" is the Romanian name, and this fact is also attested by ro.wiki. However, because since 1876 no longer exists, you will only find it in history books.
 * The English translation is superfluous, since the first phrase specifically says that Aranyosszék (Romanian: Scaunul Arieş) was the seat (territorial administrative unit) of the Transylvanian Székelys living in the Valley of River Arieş.
 * As far as I know, there is no part of the region included in today's Cluj County. The ex-Torda-Aranyos county has some parts (e.g. Turda) in today's Cluj County, but the ex-Szekely Seat does not. Alexrap 15:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If you don't know much about a topic do not go and delete info just because you think it is not correct. "As far as I know" is not enough reason for deleting other people's contributions.
 * "As far as I know" is just an expression that was used in this case as a polite formulation. I could write "I am certain" instead. My question is now, are you sure that parts from the region are now in Cluj County? Alexrap 16:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. There are many sources, including Orbán Balázs. You seem to use no sources. --KIDB 19:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not enough evindence that the Romanian wiki uses the Scaunul Aries expression, it could have been simply translated from Hungarian. Please try to find out if this expression is the real Romanian one from the middle ages. --KIDB 16:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you're talking about. What kind of evidence do you want my friend? All the Szekely Seats are called Scaun in Romanian, and this one in particular refers to the seat from the River Arieş. This is common sense. It's like asking for evidence that Moldova is called Moldova in Romanian. Alexrap 16:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I repeat: An evidence that it was not simply translated 10 or 20 years ago but was used in medieval times (any document, novel, anything). I really don't mind if there is a Romanian name there, but is your version the real one? --KIDB 19:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As I am sure you know, documents only use the official language. And unfortunately Romanian was not official in Transylvania in medieval times. But it's common sense that the Romanian inhabitants of the region used the Romanian version of the name. Alexrap 19:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

According to the toponymy the real Romanian name Scaunul Arieşului. Former Aranyosszék villages belonging to Cluj county are Mihai Viteazu, Cheia, Corneşti, Moldoveneşti, Valenii de Arieş, Pietroasa, Podenie etc. Zello 01:33, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What's the problem if the Romanian names are specified? Do you have something against? --Roamataa 20:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no problem about using them. Read the above conversation again. --KIDB 20:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And why is not used the English name - Aranyos Seat? --Roamataa 20:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Alexrap deleted it. --KIDB 20:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

There is no English name, it's an artificial creation. There can be an English translation to help the reader. Zello 21:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What does it mean "szék"? --Roamataa 05:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

In this case it simply means "territorial unit", district or something like that. In standard Hungarian szék means "seat or chair". "Székhely" means centre, capital. The best English translation (not name!) would be "district by the Golden River" I think. Zello 15:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is a good idea, how would you then translate Kászonszék? I think, Aranyos Seat would be the best solution here. --KIDB 15:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

"Kászon District" for example because the name has no English meaning. I don't think that average English or American users have any idea what Seat means in this case. It is a rather special archaic Hungarian expression. Zello 15:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually "seat" is used in the case of Székelys and Saxons and "district" is not a perfect translation, because a szék (seat) is not a simple territorial unit, but the community of people who belong to it, etc. Anyway, using an English expression (seat, district, whatever) would be advantageous, at least English speakers are not completely frightened by this strange alien Hungarian language. If there is one word familiar to them, possibly with a link to explain what a seat really means... I think we should ask the opinion of experienced native English users --KIDB 16:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I don't really know the customs of English historical literature in this case. I'm also a bit worried about that Aranyos Seat probably seems to them a strange and funny expression like Aranyos Chair or Aranyos Table :_) Zello 16:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Although I'm not a native English speaker, if the aim is to make the name of the article easier and more "appealing" for English readers, I would say that using the English translation (Aranyos Seat) is a better option. For someone not familiar with Hungarian it's quite difficult to "de-compose" the word Aranyosszék while reading it and to understand that it actually refers to the Szék of Aranyos. Alexrap 12:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)