Talk:Arbiter (Halo)

GA pass and notes
Overall, really well done. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 09:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * An expansion on the "Role" section would be nice. What is the "Blade of the Prophets"?
 * "A shrine to these warriors lies in the Mausoleum of the Arbiter, located on High Charity." - Ref?
 * The reception section has some long sentences that could be trimmed.

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?]
 * Yeah, it could do with some more, if possible. Dihydrogen Monoxide  ♫ 09:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Dihydrogen Monoxide  ♫ 09:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
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 * Thanks for the review, will work on the points raised. James086 Talk &#124;  Email 10:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how to make a ref for "A shrine to these warriors lies in the Mausoleum of the Arbiter, located on High Charity." because it appears in a cutscene of Halo 2 preceding the level "The Storm", not a quote. Would this suffice? James086 Talk &#124;  Email 13:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Halo Wars
A trailer for Halo Wars shows an Arbiter. Should this be put here? For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 (talk) 04:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't. Currently we don't know if its actual cutscene footage or promotional, or in what capacity the Arbiter may appear; once we have more information we can add it in under appearances. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 12:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine, for the moment I'll leave it as it is. If anything else is released I'll bring the matter back up again. For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 (talk) 18:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thel 'Vadamee
I've pulled that section on grounds of original research. There's no actual confirmation within Cole Protocol that Thel becomes the Supreme Commander. Page 349 of the book does specify that he becomes a shipmaster of a crusier within the Fleet of Particular Justice, and while I agree that there is a better then good chance he does become the Supreme Commander, without actual confirmation extrapolating that he becomes the Supreme Commander is original research. If someone wants to contest this, I would request a source specifically citing that he becomes the Supreme Commander. Peptuck (talk) 03:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree; having read the book, while it seems the author intends to imply that The Arbiter is Thel, at this point there is no definite confirmation of this assumption. Further action should be delayed before we find out more.

76.78.115.10 (talk) 22:19, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I will second that. There is no concrete connection. However, given the name we can positively say that Thel is related to the Spec Ops Leader, Rtas 'Vadumee, who was in that fleet and (as Halo 3 shows) does have experience as a shipmaster. - Fearless Son (talk) 18:51, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Halopedia seems to disagree: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Thel_%27Vadam#Name_Discussion 92.4.164.217 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 01:35, 28 December 2008 (UTC).
 * Halopedia's opinion is irrelevant, as it isn't a reliable source. Peptuck (talk) 02:58, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually it's not opinion. It's fact. 'Vadum isn't related to Vadam. Their names are similar, but so are the names Roberts and Robertson. Just because a name is similar does NOT mean they're related. Thel Vadam and the Arbiter in Halo 2/Halo 3 might not be the same people, but it's heavily implied. Why else would they include the fact he was assigned to the Fleet of Particular Justice? And don't just jump to conclusions that they're related just because they have similar names and both are/were at one point a shipmaster. It's in no way implied that Thel Vadam and Rtas 'Vadum are related or the same person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.227.76 (talk) 21:03, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

From Halopedia:

Bungie acknowledges him as Thel 'Vadam in the blog: http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid19079

"Ascendant Justice published a new article examining the origins of Thel 'Vadam, better know to most as The Arbiter."

Event though it was decided on Halopedia that it was him, im just showing some new evidence so that we can be completely sure.

The blog post was about this: http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/thel-page-one/ FishType1 21:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

End quote.

That proves the Arbiter in Halos 2 and 3 is named Thel 'Vadam (Thel 'Vadamee before the Great Schism), and again, I'm telling you he's NOT related to Rtas 'Vadum (Rtas 'Vadumee before the Great Schism). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.10.41 (talk) 15:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Vadamee has also been recently confirmed by Tobias S. Buckell as well. A French Halo website interviewed him

Links:

[direct interview]

[translation of interview] Dibol (talk) 06:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm iffy about that. For one thing, I've got to rely on the translation, it's not a reliable source, and he doesn't just come out and plainly state it either. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 14:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Other than the translation being on a message board, what is it that makes the information unreliable?Dibol (talk) 22:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See WP:RS. This site doesn't have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. There's no one vouching for this site. Who's to say they didn't just make it up or mangle Bucknell's comments? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 23:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

¡Stop it OK!
Seriously, if the Arbiter is puted with all these sections of "characters with superhuman strength" etc. then why not the Master Chief?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.12.156.120 (talk) 20:24, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * First, check the categories that Master Chief (Halo) belong to; some are themselves subcategories of the categories here, and we generally don't list both a category and its subcategory because it's actually redundant. Second, each page stands on its own merits, so if you're removing categories only to conform to another article, which you think should actually have more categories, the correct solution is to discuss it on the talk page of the other article. If, however, you think that the categories should be removed because they don't belong, period, that's another story. — TKD:: Talk  20:40, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Halo Wars Arbiter
I just encountered this on the Halo Wars main menu on the liitle bar at the bottom with snippets of game information and statistics:

Not many people know that the Arbiter's given birth name is Shirley.

No, seriously. I'm not vandalising the article by putting this in. I've only ever seen it once, but I have seen it.

EDIT: Sorry, that was me. I forgot to login on this window. --Thejadefalcon (talk) 11:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, I think that is obviously a joke. Peptuck (talk) 12:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I did consider that, but it seemed like such a weird one that I figured it must be true. We don't know much about Elite naming conventions. Maybe Shirley is a male name in their society. *shrugs* Of course, I like a good conspiracy and maybe that's polluting my grasp of the situation. --Thejadefalcon (talk) 12:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Images?
I think perhaps a picture of the Arbiter from Halo 2 and 3 would be better. Maybe a free one could be found somewhere? Mr. Wayne (talk) 19:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Where might we obtain a free image of a copyrighted character in a copyrighted work? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 19:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe a drawing or something...if it's possible. Mr. Wayne (talk) 21:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC) Yeah, it does feel like if possible, the picture of an arbiter should be the one considered THE Arbiter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.197.214.29 (talk) 16:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Halo legends arbiter
Why no mention of him? 69.132.69.87 (talk) 23:45, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If you have a reliable source that talks about his appearance, please provide it or add it in yourself. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 22:40, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

And here also you forgot to write who creater the character, and also who designed
--Niemti (talk) 15:11, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Meaning of "Arbeit"
Arbeit is German for "work". Arbeit, Arbeit discuss this. The latter is a dabpage. It also appears as part of the phrase Arbeit macht frei with significant resonance. Not sure whether the designers were cognizant of this and how or whether to introduce this into the article. — Brianhe (talk) 05:47, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Arbiter has a clear meaning in English as well. I've not seen any source to suggest they were inspired by the German term. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 13:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

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Should Thel 'Vadam get his own page?
I think Thel 'Vadam should get his own page, mainly because of how important he is, He was the first Arbiter introduce in the Halo series, and the main one. 114.75.148.198 (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose This article needs a move to The Arbiter in order to refocus it entirely on Thel 'Vadam (under his WP:COMMONNAME). He is the only character who is notable here, the others are tangential at best and should only get a passing mention, if any at all besides "Arbiter is a rank also given to other Covenant"). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:16, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I should note that, ironically, in the article's current state even the notability of The Arbiter himself is not demonstrated at all. However, the books Halo and Philosophy: Intellect Evolved and The World Is Born From Zero: Understanding Speculation and Video Games, which are not included in the article, have some significant coverage on him that gets him, at least, past the notability threshold. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:56, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I have totally removed all mentions of the other non-notable Arbiters from this article, so I think this split is now moot. If they are to be mentioned, it could be at Covenant (Halo) instead. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:53, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 5 May 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Megan B....   It’s all coming to me till the end of time  14:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Arbiter (Halo) → The Arbiter – The character is commonly known as "The Arbiter", similar to The Nameless One. "Arbiter" as a rank is not notable. See this link for an example. If this RM succeeds the above discussion should be closed as moot. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:00, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom. GlatorNator  (ᴛ) 10:20, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The article, as it reads today, covers several characters known as arbiters.  The current RM request seems to stem from a desire to refocus this article on only Thel 'Vadam; see discussion above.  Unless and until that happens, it does not make sense to have the singular The Arbiter as an article title. 162 etc. (talk) 13:40, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Even leaving aside the question of the other characters described, the character's name isn't "the Arbiter" but "Arbiter", as it's a title or rank akin to Master Chief—adding the definite article might be common usage, but it's also not correct, and there's no compelling reason to go against WP:NCAN here. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 18:06, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Master Chief is not normally called "The Master Chief". "The Arbiter" as a nickname is to be distinguished from the in-universe rank of Arbiter. While they are related, it's not the same thing. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:52, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose (Halo) required and "The" not. Other The Arbiter on dab. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:04, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:THE and not primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:33, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Re: Refocusing the article
My edits removing the other Arbiters were reverted per "no consensus" but with no other reason given, so I'd like to ask for what the justification is for making the article about the rank of Arbiter rather than the main Halo character. The character who appears in Halo 2/3/5 appears to be the sole notable Arbiter in the franchise. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That's how this article has been for more than a decade, and it's how it went through FAC. No reason is needed besides "no consensus for a significant change to the article". The article doesn't spend a ton of time on the other characters, there's no undue weight consideration. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 22:25, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 2009 FA standards were not nearly the same as they are now. It's not the idea of being undue, but the notion that the rank of Arbiter is not what is mentioned in RS. They are almost entirely referring to the Thel 'Vadam character. If I moved Commander Shepard to "Spectre", or Master Chief (Halo) to SPARTAN, people would rightfully revert me. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It's still more consideration than you have gotten for your changes. So get the consensus first. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 20:03, 15 May 2023 (UTC)