Talk:Architecture of Seattle/Archive 1

Skybridges
suggested including Seattle's oppostion to skybridges: --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:34, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * http://www.seattleweekly.com/home/933225-129/transportation
 * http://crosscut.com/2010/06/seattles-30000-skybridge-heres-compromise/

Transportation architecture
Probably could warrant a section. Some notable things I've seen:


 * Bridges, obviously.
 * Light rail stations, especially those in the downtown bus tunnel. University Street, for example, features a lot of modernist elements to match buildings adjacent to the station. (Source)
 * Train stations: King Street and Union; former Greyhound/Interurban depot

 Sounder Bruce  00:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The bus tunnel architecture – specifically its use of interesting stone – is covered by a chapter of The Street Smart Naturalist by David Williams. Brianhe (talk) 11:50, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Does that book have any details regarding the outcome of Granitegate (the controversy over South African granite that was to be used in the stations). I'd like to know exactly where it ended up, since I'm writing the tunnel's article (which would need such a detail).  Sounder Bruce  20:37, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * From memory, the issue was mentioned and I think they replaced the South African granite. However there is "illicit" S.A. stone in some other, privately owned, downtown buildings. This blog entry by Williams may be similar or identical to what's in the book. Brianhe (talk) 12:26, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Also worth asking: is the design of Pioneer Square Station a deliberate homage to the famous coffered vault design used in the Washington Metro? The New York Times claimed that it was to reflect vaulted historic buildings (and others claim that it's inspired by covered wagons), but I'd love to have some clarification.  Sounder Bruce  04:12, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that too but don't know if it was deliberate. If I see anything about it, I'll reply here. - Brianhe (talk) 12:26, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Suggested topics
– Brianhe (talk) 13:03, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Two buildings by Minoru Yamasaki are in the University Tract, and he designed the Pacific Science Center (the arches are his trademark). Yamasaki was from Seattle.
 * Smith Tower was the tallest building west of the Mississippi for nearly two decades.
 * Unusual raising of Pioneer Square streets and sidewalks, and resultant Underground Seattle.
 * Aversion to skybridges, mentioned by Dennis above.
 * Inclusion of Native American themes in several buildings in addition to longhouses already noted in the draft, especially Indian casinos if you go to "greater Seattle" . Also longhouse/Native American theme was employed in original Totem Lake Mall design on the Eastside.
 * More references to "Scandinasian" design?
 * Johnpaul Jones
 * Also "greater Seattle" - Indian Shaker Church architecture (outline at List of Indian Shaker Church buildings in Washington)
 * Unique construction in Chinatown -- there's something about this at the Wing Luke museum, and the museum itself preserves I believe an old hotel, the East Kong Yick Building.
 * Re:Chinatown. The Publix Hotel might warrant inclusion (and an article), and is the subject of a huge redevelopment project right now.  Sounder Bruce  19:10, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Another suggestion: the use of native materials like cedar, locally sourced stone (especially Tenino sandstone), timbers from local old-growth, local clay (brick), terracotta. The last two are touched on at Denny-Renton Clay and Coal Company; Crowley and Dorpat (1998) talk about the "'Age of Terracotta' in Downtown Seattle". I believe that Denny-Renton brick can be seen in the Peter Kirk Building, probably many other buildings in Seattle proper. Post-and-beam construction at Boeing Plant 1 with what is likely local timber would be an interesting study. ☆ Bri (talk) 02:51, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Whether to identify landmarks, NRHP listings
I notice that Brian recently indicated that certain things he referenced here are Seattle Landmarks. My guess is that half or more of the buildings we mention will be either Seattle Landmarks, NRHP-listed, or part of a historic district with a similar collective designation. Up to now, I've been avoiding mentioning that, because I thought it would get very redundant, but I think we are going to want to either (1) mention this every time for every relevant building, (2) not mention it at all, or (3) mention it only when it stands out: e.g. first building of its type to be so designated. If there is a consensus for (1), I want to go back and do this now for the content I've already added, and plan on being consistent about it in the future. I myself lean toward (3). - Jmabel &#124; Talk 21:18, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd rather not see the article cluttered with little denotations of different designations. Leaving a link to the article (which will mention the designation) should be enough, and I support your option 3 since some are worth mentioning.  Sounder Bruce  04:05, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Scope
I see a lot of suggestions above that I would normally consider civil engineering rather than architecture. I don't necessarily object to the scope including both, but this is going to be an enormous article no matter how we do it and I'm more inclined to try to keep it to architecture as such. I feel like if we go out toward bridges and things like that, we start moving toward a full-blown issue of "built environment": parks and other landscape design, regrades, road-building, etc. I would think that there could better be a separate article on that, only because of sheer size. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 21:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Also, I'd really like to keep this article almost entirely to Seattle itself, with other nearby places mentioned only when they provide relevant contrast (e.g. the much more obvious Scandinavian influence in Poulsbo). - Jmabel &#124; Talk 21:25, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree that this article is going to need a set limit in scope, lest it become a bloated whale needing some clearing. Bridges can probably stay in the list of Seattle bridges, but deserve a small mention alongside things like Olmsted parks and boulevards, and public art installations. The focus should primarily be on building architecture, in my opinion.  Sounder Bruce  04:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Rising trend of facadism
Might be something worth including here.


 * Notable examples
 * Troy Block in SLU (under construction, former Troy Laundry Building)
 * Melrose Building on Capitol Hill
 * Allen Brain Institute in SLU


 * Coverage in the media
 * Crosscut - "Seattle’s facadism fetish makes fools of history & progress"
 * KING5 - "Legislation drafted to preserve Seattle neighborhood identities"

 Sounder Bruce  04:01, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree. Allen Brain Institute is an interesting case, because they completely demolished the old building, but preserved a remarkable amount of terracotta for the new one, and even replicated one entire room (on the corner of Westlake & Mercer). - Jmabel &#124; Talk 01:40, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

State of this
This is maybe 25% of the way to an article; I've done most of the work so far, but I expect to be very busy the next few weeks. If someone else wants to carry the ball for a while, that would be great. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 04:15, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Joe, checking in -- can I help develop this in some specific way? I'll watch this page from my main account. - Brianhe.public (talk) 19:16, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd like to move this to mainspace so it doesn't become either outdated (esp the section on SLU development) or require a future merge if somebody else jumps into it first. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:28, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Feel free, if you think it would be OK to go into mainspace in its current state. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 02:16, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Settlement in historic era
The term "European settlement" grates on my nerves as the PNW has had a number of influences from other areas not the least of which is Asia, but notably some early settlers were African-American – George Washington Bush for instance, whose father from India, and of African heritage. Many explorers and settlers were also of mixed heritage that included Native American, as with much of America west of the Atlantic seaboard. Notwithstanding, given the complexity of race and ethnicity in the United States, the settlers in the PNW from the United States are arguably best described not as European, but American. Is there a better phrase that can be used? ☆ Bri (talk) 23:27, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Skyscraper construction
Regarding your recent edit. At last count, the gap at the end of the 1980s boom and the next "significant" skyscraper, the IDX Tower (Fourth and Madison Building) was only 12 years if counting the Seattle Municipal Tower or 13 if counting from Two Union Square.  Sounder Bruce  06:08, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I was just working from what my source said. If you have better sources, of course feel free to edit accordingly. - Jmabel &#124; Talk 17:40, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Ballard apartment boom
In Architecture of Seattle, right after the remark about "cookie cutter" buildings, I'd like to write about the current apartment boom in Ballard, but can't find anything citable. Can anyone help out? - Jmabel &#124; Talk 17:42, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

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