Talk:Arjun (tank)/Archive 4

NEED HELP
@Echo1Charlie I had left may reference required for the citations in your talk apge,but it seems like you are self centred guy who made 0 research on this topic. All my citations clearly states that the SPADE armour is used on arjun ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1034011771 ) what's your excuse for that? and if u find any spelling mistakes then plz correct it not just delete the info (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1034014203 ). I am just fed by facing these deletions @Echo1Charlie. Wikipedia is ment to share knowledge that u have plz co-operate with thatHelios007

If u find any problems with the links or citation then leave a message in the talk page don't Just deliberately delete those with citation. All my citations proved that the SPADE armour is used in arjun series of tanks. What's your response for that? @Echo1Charlie Helios007 (talk) 08:33, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

User:Echo1Charlie|Echo1Charlie]] (talk) 08:57, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

That link clearly states that it's been an MoD ministry of defence website,if u don't even know the basic URL reading then plz stop vandilize the info Helios007 ([[User talk:Helios007|talk]


 * That was what me and the other admin did, but you're not listening to us and called us "half boiled liberals" "Idiots" (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arjun_(tank)&diff=1034024369&oldid=1034023973), you also said " This Wikipedia is not your property or your father's property ". Do you think that's how a new editor should behave? -Echo1Charlie (talk) 09:49, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Your sentiment is accurate, however, neither of us are administrators. –– F ORMAL D UDE ( talk ) 10:01, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The source you linked loads the following error: "Server Error 404 - File or directory not found. The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable." –– F ORMAL D UDE ( talk ) 10:11, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Spade steel or DMR 1700
The Arjun tanks are also protected with ultra-high strength low alloy DMR-1700 steel armour plates developed by the DMRL, which offers enhanced protection against kinetic energy penetrator projectiles such as APFSDS (125 mm) rounds, over the existing RHA plates by a margin of '''20 per cent and 25 per cent against 7.62 mm and 12.7 mm armour-piercing projectiles. (current)
 * You're trying to add " The arjun tank's structural parts are made out of SPADE steel armour plates developed by DMRL, which offers enhanced protection against Kinetic energy penetrator such as APFSDS(125mm) rounds over  the existing RHA plates by a margin of 25 percent and 10-15 percent against 7.62 and 12.7 mm Armor-piercing projectiles

Arjun MK1 has Kanchan armour while MK1A has improved Kanchan, ERA, NERA; both of these (or unsure which variant as the source doesn't specify that) claimed to have DMR-1700 steel armour - unclear whether DMR-1700 is used instead of RHA plates in Kanchan or used to manufacture the hull, the source doesn't mention that. That means still a confusion is there about the exact use of DMR-1700 steel armour and you are making a claim (much like adding fuel to the fire) that another type of armour ––spade armour is used in structural parts – what structural part? How many types of armour are used in Arjun? That confuses the reader which can't be allowed on Wikipedia as you wish —Echo1Charlie (talk) 11:20, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Also you post was not meeting the standard mentioned in the edit summary—Echo1Charlie (talk) 11:22, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Your edit has been reverted because the source you used does not verify the content you added. Specifically, your source has no mention of the Arjun tank or the Indian military. –– F ORMAL D UDE ( talk ) 11:24, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have made it clear to him previously (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arjun_(tank)&diff=1032909712&oldid=1032907422) but... —Echo1Charlie (talk) 11:28, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

The source is not an issue here ,I would be happy to produce documents needed, but the point which u have made is considerable. Therefore I agree with u. @Echo1Charlie. Won't make any further article about the armour without discussing. Helios007 (talk) 11:37, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

For your kind info, the structure means the chassis,body of the tank ,these are referred here as an structure, anyone with curiosity would catch that, All the source that I have provided have pointed out the usage of the armour on arjun tank,just go through them carefully @https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FormalDude U can't just expect the DRDO to publically reveal everything on research papers,thats the use of multiple citations. https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/rourkela-steel-plant-supplies-parts-for-agni-missile-116080301419_1.html - this source clearly mention the use of the SPADE on arjun and this article suggests about the mechanical properties of the armourhttps://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318368846_Future_Armour_Materials_and_Technologies_for_Combat_Platforms&ved=2ahUKEwjErZX7g-rxAhUymuYKHQB3B20QFjABegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw0t1Qn-TXdIvtNAXbhq2h31.

Helios007 (talk) 11:48, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

However,most of the source that I have found are over 2-3 years old,(before the induction of arjun mk-1A) so, there's an confusion here Helios007 (talk) 11:50, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

SPADE ,DMR-1700 and RHA.
user: Echo1Charlie, with reference to your recent request for the usage of DMR-1700 and Spade steel on this talk page.

The DMR-1700 and SPADE are Hardend steel (from the documents )they are not under the category of RHA they comes under the category of "HARDEND STEEL" and SPADE under Medium hardness catogary, the articles also shows that it's been used for construction of structure ( hull and turrent) of the Arjun tanks,  the tanks can use n number of armour types depending on the design, for example the lepord 2 tank also uses "HARDEND STEEL" of various hardness and Composite Armour.

Further, No  articles/documents released by DRDO indicate the use of RHA armour, so,it is recommended to add these 2 kind of Hardend steels under the armour catogary as these can educate the user on indigenous armours used on tanks. Xi Xing Ping (talk) 04:35, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:53, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Arjun Mk.1 Alpha tank.jpg

Source??
User: Echo1Charlie With your recent unnecessary edits/deletes (if not vandilism), which included the stuffs with proper citation made out by the manufacturer viz OFB https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1044530743e u have deleted it by the following claim "it doe not explicitly state that" even though it did stated that in the arjun tank barrel section of the page. What's your answer for this???

Second time I attached an link which depicts it properly and even wrote by an army genral https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1047019856 But,have deleted it by claiming it's an outdated stuff.

What do u think?? Never really discussing and breaking the consensus rule in Wikipedia and engaging in edit warring with other editors.

Most of the claims in the wikis arjun page is based on decades old source. Example this source: https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/land/row/arjun.htm

What's your answer for this??? If u consider only the official documents viz-ofb and drdo u can't make up an page fully at all. There's no rule stating that old documents should not considered as an valid citation.

And now you are making personal attack by mentioning other editors work as childish or unnecessary stuffs and sugar coating it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1047023557 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NoTimeToTalk&oldid=1044533501 NoTimeToTalk (talk) 16:37, 28 September 2021 (UTC) The picture you uploaded to the article is removed due to 2 reasons — so what is the point of changing same image with same image?? Reason the removal of content added by you Also what is your rationale behind this edit? — Replacing a higher resolution (resolution 5,760 × 3,840 pixels, file size: 8.53 MB) picture with a lower resolution picture (resolution 3,508 × 2,343 pixels, file size: 4.23 MB), that too replacing same image with same image??! What do you meant by this? —Echo1Charlie (talk) 17:01, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Picture
 * It has name written on it
 * The image you're trying to upload to the article and the image already present there  are same
 * 1) Capability to fire rounds comes under specification, where most reliable source is manufacturer's specification for the tank, if the manufacturer says it is capable of firing only APFSDS and HESH then it means it is capable of firing that two only. There's no point in adding speculations from a 1999 source when the tank was not even entered production!
 * 2) This change the smoke mentioned in the source could be smoke grenade not a particular round and you pipe linked it to White phosphorus munitions—where does the source said that? —Echo1Charlie (talk) 16:49, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Neutral point of view
@User:DaxServer please change erase the line "Arjuna, the archer prince who is the main protagonist of the Mahabharata" in the 1st paragraph, 3rd line. It hurts the neutral point of view in the article. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArsheyaSagar (talk • contribs) 13:46, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll let others make the decision as I'm involved. Thanks! — DaxServer (t · c) 13:52, 8 February 2022 (UTC)