Talk:Arkansas River

2003
I've got two sources (including 1911 EB) that say the Arkansas is 2000 miles long, and one (Ark River coalition) saying it's 1450. That's 550 miles of river in discrepancy. I'm suspicious that flood control work in the 20th century has shortened the river, but I'm not sure that would account for it. Any ideas for definitive numbers? -- ESP 18:54 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * My 1997 almanac says 1459, gives source as Lake County, Colorado, and atlas confirms it coming from a Turquoise Lake in the mountains near Leadville, Colorado. 2,000 is likely either confusion, or adding in Mississippi length, or length in km garbled. Stan 20:57 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Arkansas River (True or False)
True or false: This river's name is more commonly pronounced as "R Kansas" than as "Arkansas". 66.32.145.196 01:04, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * American Heritage Dictionary lists both pronunciations for "Arkansas River," but lists the "Arkansaw" pronunciation first, which means that they believe it is the more frequent pronunciation. Dpbsmith 01:48, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * However, there is one Internet site that says that "R Kansas" is the proper pronunciation of the river. 66.245.11.49 23:46, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

I am a recent resident of Garden City Kansas, through which this river once flowed. The proper pronunciation of the river is indeed "Arkansaw" but in most of Kansas it is commonly referred to as the "R Kansas" River for the play on words (i.e. Our Kansas River). - user nonbonumest

Since the river got its name from its Arkansas end (it came from the French name of the Quapaw tribe, whose ancestral home was near Arkansas Post), "Arkansaw" is its correct pronunciation. (The Arkansas legislature made that the official pronunciation of the state's name in 1881.) However, "Arkansas" in Arkansas City, Kansas is properly pronounced "R Kansas" due to local usage there; as many Arkansas localities have unusual pronunciations (see Lafayette & Nevada Counties and El Dorado, all three pronounced differently from their respective namesakes), we can certainly respect Kansas' preference there. --RBBrittain 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC) (resident of Arkansas)


 * According the George R. Stewart, in his classic book on placenames Names on the Land, the river got its name not from the "French name of the Quapaw" so much as the Algonqiuan and Illiniwek guides who gave the French the name "Arkansea" for a village and the tribe located near the mouth of the Arkansas River. The French soon spelled it "Arkansa", then pluralized it as "Arkansas" (as they did with Illinois and Kansas).  As for pronunciation, Stewart describes that at length.  For a long time, at least through the creation of "Arkansaw Territory" (1819), the French-style pronunciation (approximately), with the final -s silent, was the norm.  In the middle 1800s the spelling was in flux between Arkansaw and Arkansas, with Arkansas eventually winning out.  Soon, among those who could read (a minority in Arkansas at the time), there developed the feeling that pronunciation should follow the spelling, and some people began to call the state "ar-KAN-sas".  There was even a time, in the 1840s, when the two senators from the state differed and were introduced in Congress as "the senator from Arkansaw and the senator from Ar-KAN-sas.  Confusion over which way to pronounce it spread, especially given things like the obvious pronunciation of the adjective "Arkansan".  Finally the state legislature officially ruled the pronunciation to be Arkansaw-- the only state with an official pronunciation.  However, just as the people of the state of Arkansas were unyielding in their pronunciation of both the state and the river, so too were the people of Kansas, through which the river flows for a great length.  Given the half-century or more of uncertainty and multiple pronunciations of even the state of Arkansas, not formally resolved until the 1880s (and note the official pronunciation is of the state, not the river), I would argue that there is no official or proper pronunciation of the Arkansas River-- although my understanding is that few people outside Kansas pronounce it AR-kansas.  Nonetheless, I think it is going too far to say there is a "proper" pronunciation.   ...I can give some more of the nitty-gritty detatils of the pronunciation story from Stewart's book if anyone cares to hear.  He devotes a whole chapter to it (called "Change the name of Arkansas--Never!"). Pfly 09:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I know it's pron. "R-Kansas by at least one Wichita radio station, and here in N.C. Kansas (Concordia) my 12th grade Government teacher referred to it as that. I may be un-patriotic, but I consider it "Arkansaw".  I've never said it aloud, though... Smarkflea (talk) 04:43, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I've lived in Colorado for 30+ years & I've never heard anyone pronounce it R-Kansas here. Suggest changing this: "Many people in some states, including Kansas and Colorado, pronounce it /ɑrˈkænzəs/ ar-kan-zəs," to this: Many people in Kansas pronounce it /ɑrˈkænzəs/ ar-kan-zəs. Bradrh (talk) 14:33, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Bradrh above; no one I've talked to from Colorado has ever heard the R-Kansas pronunciation, and Kansas I've talked to indicate that it's rare and limited to the elderly. I've put a Dubious-Discuss tag on this supposed pronunciation and found a source that indicates, second-hand, that Coloradans don't use the R-Kansas pronunciation: In 2002, the Tampa Bay Times, referring to a Denver Post article that I couldn't find, says Coloradans pronounce the river like the state. Riverhugger (talk) 16:48, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The older replies here seem like a lot of OR. Since your tagging two months ago, no one has disagreed. So I'm boldly taking it out. If someone disagrees, they can speak up and/or revert. Dgndenver (talk) 13:37, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Modern 21st Century Pronunciations
This is the true prevailing practice: Paul 08:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Arkansaw in the state of Arkansas.
 * R Kansas in the state of Kansas, indeed a play on words: "Our Kansas".
 * In Colorado and Oklahoma, either one is fine -- no one cares.


 * Only in or about Kansas is it pronounced "Kansas." Nowhere in Oklahoma have I ever heard it referred to as anything other than "Arkansas" (pronounced like the state).  Oklahoma City and Tulsa media pronounce it like the state. Nsu2112 (talk) 09:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Discontinuity of the Watercourse
In much of Western Kansas the Arkansas River is actually now a dry riverbed, due to large scale irrigation. I know that the river currently is dry (year round) at least from west of Lakin, Kansas east past Dodge City, but I suspect that it is dry for some distance past that both to the east and west, but to what distance I am unsure. If anyone knows anything in greater detail about this it might be useful to include in the article. - user nonbonumest

I am also curious about this. Sometimes it seems to be filled to the banks but has also been dry for years on end throughout Kansas. Can anyone explain why this is? --Junky 20:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Having lived in Dodge City and Lamar for over 30 years with family in the area. I can speak to the flow in the Dodge City area. The river seems to re-emerge between Fort Dodge and Ford. As for the amount of water above ground in Dodge City, this has been directly proportional to the amount being released by the dam just northwest of Lamar, Colorado. The only time I have witnessed in my lifetime a significant amount of water in Dodge City is when the flood gates have been opened at that dam. 2600:8803:7582:C00:80F8:4C9C:DB54:EC0 (talk) 01:19, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

The answer is fairly easy...the amount of water flowing through (or lack thereof) a particular section of the river is mostly due to the amount of rainfall (or lack thereof) flowing through its drainage basin. This is further adjusted by (as previously noted) the amount of water that is removed from the river for irrigation and other purposes as well as the lesser effects of evaporation. Rainy periods not only mean that there is more water to drain in the river, it also means there is less demand for irrigation (as the croplands will have received abundant water through natural rainfall). The flipside is that when it is drier in the basin, the amount of water flowing into the river is less (the supply) and the demand for irrigation spikes up because the croplands are dry. This is a double-edged sword in that extremely wet years mean lots of water and little irrigation and mean that the river floods easily but extremely dry years mean there is little water supplied and it is basically completely drained due to the demands of farmers. While this is not ideal, keep in mind that the Arkansas basin is the "breadbasket of America" and one of just a handful of breadbaskets of the world. The ecological demands on the river are extreme, but they prevent famines and wars. If irrigation was limited or not allowed, it would produce a large dropoff in the world's crop production (principally grain) and drive up prices worldwide. These price affects would first affect the world's poorest countries as the rich countries would simply pay the high prices in order to get food. This would likely lead to great famines in the third world countries and would create an environment conducive to wars, genocides, and all manner of other man-made horrors....so the answer is not really that simple after all, I guess.

Delisted GA
There are no references. slambo 10:36, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Re*Cycling Arkansas River and Kaw River's Earth Science
Blue is the Kansas River not the Arkansas river basin which this discussion refers to. Green is the Arkansas river basin.

Also see: MentroshipART of Peace (Eco-Futures Forum) WikkaWiki's logo from the project's website. RJBurkhart 01:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Port of Catoosa (aka) TulsaPort
Claremore, Oklahoma Green Country (Oklahoma) Tulsa, Oklahoma RJBurkhart 00:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 *  Wikipedia: Port of Catoosa includes these articles:

Adapt Kansas Water Office (KWO) KELP Resources
Debra Baker - KWO Basin Planner - 1-888-526-9283 or 785-296-3185 ... The Upper Arkansas River Corridor Study is a Kansas Water Plan project ... Susan Stover coordinates the project work at the KWO. ... Continue survey of fishes in the Arkansas River of SW Kansas. ... KDWP = Kansas Department of Wildlife & Parks KWO = Kansas Water Office ... The Kansas Water Office (KWO) administrates the provisions of the Kansas Weather ... promoting the orderly development of the water in the Arkansas River ... Kansas Environmental Leadership Program Ch. 2 ... (KWO, FS 37, 2002). The Upper Arkansas River Basin. Streams in this basin are the Arkansas River ... This site has publications and other information about alternative farming ... RJBurkhart 18:14, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Lower Arkansas Basin: The Arkansas River flows generally southeast across the basin. ...
 * UARC Agency Cooperation:
 * Research Summary:
 * USGS -Monthly Water History:
 * KELP Class 6:2005 River Orienteering / Community Stewardship (RO/CS)
 * (PDF) KELP Module 3:
 * Kansas Center for Sustainable Agriculture and Alternative Crops:

i4CQuest-Keywords :: Arkansas Basin KWO Map Topo
Where possible, the streamflow trends were aggregated into KWO basin averages and ... On the map, click on a gaging station in a basin to open a new browser ...
 * KGS Open File Report 2003-55C:

This summary is based on all the map data being set in a Universal Transverse Mercator ... Total Riparian Land Use Bank Miles by KWO Planning Basin. Basin ...
 * KGS Open File Report 2003-55E:

Data maps & linksArkansas River data - John Martin/Ark River operations. Missouri River data and links. Republican River data. Topographic maps are available on the internet ...
 * Water Resources:

About Equus BedsDRAINAGE BASIN--Hydrologic unit consisting of a part of the surface of the ... TOPOGRAPHIC MAP--A map that shows natural human-made features of an area ...
 * Equus Beds Information Resource:

and the Kansas Water Office (KWO), with funding ... Health and Environment, and the Lower Arkansas Basin Advisory Committee ... western GMD2 south of the Arkansas River ...
 * Equus Beds--KGS Open File Report 2000-30:

Through the use of the available GIS themes (wetlands, hydro, topo, and photo) ... The Kansas Water Office (KWO) is working with the Kansas Alliance for ... RJBurkhart 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * ASWM Abstract:

January 2006 edits
Why should this article be in the Category:Human geography and the Category:Biogeography, and not every other river in the world? Like say the Amazon River or the Yukon River? The text of the article makes no mention of either of the topics. I'd revert the edits, but the user who added them (User:RJBurkhart) seems to revert them right back... so I don't know. -- Malepheasant 08:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Since 1999, the Kansas Water Office (KWO) with Kansas Department of Health & Environment (KDHE) have "championed" community stewardship efforts to preserve & protect water quality via multiple river orienteering programs like Friend of the Kaw and bioneering interdisciplinary K-State Extension initiatives.


 * This multi-agency effort focuses on engaging community stakeholders in civic social responsibiltiy for water resources. Hence, biogeography & human geography categories seem appropriate.


 * KELP Kansas Environmental Leadership Program
 * Kansas Public Health: Community Workbench
 * Kansas Community Pride RJBurkhart 22:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Prairie Passage in Kansas Flyways

 * Also, National Audubon Society, among various external links, was added to the "see also" list, but the National Audobon Society article makes no mention of the Arkansas River; and this article makes no mention (apart from the "see also" list to which it was added) of the National Audobon Society; so I don't know what one has to do with the other. -- Malepheasant 10:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Our Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) seeks to protect waterfowl habitats & the National Audubon Society helps participants promote flyway corridor birding maps ...


 * Prairie Passage in Kansas ( Adopt-a-Habitat )
 * Citizen science via Great Backyard Bird Count
 * National Audubon Society RJBurkhart 22:59, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

The fourth longest in the US?
The article for the Rio Grande makes the same claim to fame, to be the fourth longest river in the US. So which is it? Rio Grande is longer, right? Steve G 07:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That article now refers to it as the third. CopaceticThought (talk) 09:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Added rewritten Angling Section
The Angling section was recently deleted with the following edit summary: Removed section: only source was self-published, and Wikipedia is not a tourist guide. The section has been re-written to include significant additional sources to include the "self-published" source whose author is extensively referenced and quoted in other sources. The comment about the Tourist Guide may be correct but not relevant to the subject of the section. Angling on the Arkansas is a significant and historical recreational use of the river well supported by verifiable sources. The fact that "tourists" may fly fish the river is irrelevant. Indeed if all the "activity" related content for geographic and destination related articles (ie. Yellowstone, Disneyland, etc.) were removed because "tourists" participated in those activities, WP would be a sad place.--Mike Cline (talk) 15:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

River Assessment
Quality C: because it only has citations in the lead and in one other paragraph.--ClemRutter (talk) 20:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Navigation Head/Teminus of the Arkansas River
The article states that the Arkansas River is navigable to Muskogee, Oklahoma via the McClellan-Kerr system, however, the McClellan-Kerr article states that the river is navigable until the Tulsa area (actually Catoosa, a suburb or Tulsa) through the McClellan-Kerr system and the navigation head is at the Catoosa port. I'm fairly sure that the article is in error, but, if the navigation through Catoosa is conditional on hydrological conditions, this needs to be clarified. From what I can gather, however, the Catoosa port is always navigable (extreme conditions aside). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.93.147.197 (talk) 16:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I know this is a really old comment, but just to clarify in case someone else stumbles upon it: the Arkansas is only navigable to Muskogee. The McClellan-Kerr System diverges along the Verdigris from that point to the Port of Catoosa. JFMorse (talk) 19:16, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

"little more than a series of reservoirs"
Calling 445 miles of the Arkansas River "little more than a series of reservoirs" is extreme (and uncited). Water freely and continuously flows unimpeded, from one supposed "reservoir" to the next. The locks complement the navigation channels kept dredged along the course of the riverbed. In, the lock only spans one-fourth of the width of the river, and spans a tiny proportion of the twenty miles of the length of the river which lies between this and the next dam. Catsmoke (talk) 03:20, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

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Arkansas River Valley
In the first paragraph of this article, it says, "The river's source basin lies in the western United States in Colorado, specifically the Arkansas River Valley..." and there's a hyperlink for Arkansas River Valley. But clicking on that link sends you to a page about a valley in Arkansas, at the bottom of the river's course, not at the headwaters. So this is a factual error that needs to be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.168.162 (talk) 17:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)