Talk:Armenian Ground Forces

Graphic of the Army Structure
I'm currently working on a project to create graphics of the structure of the most important Armies. i.e. French Army; German Army; Italian Army I also want to make a graphic of the structure of the Armenian Army, but the information at this point is not sufficient, as there is no information how the units are structured (i.e. which Regiments/Batallions belong to which Command, what type of units there are;…) Does anyone have this information- and also the Regiments/Battalions names and/or numbers and where they are based? Thanks noclador

How do we know your not a spy? Vartanm 08:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Very witty- I only use the information that i find on the web- so, if Armenia does not reveal this information to the public, then I'm not gonna search for it- there are 50 other armies I still have to work on. nocladorNoclador 06:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

>How do we know your not a spy?

LMAO Vartan - Fedayee 06:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Umm, as far as I know, it should be pretty hard to find info like that on the Armenian army. It's kinda new and most of the stuff should be written in Armenian if there is info online. - Fedayee 06:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Military structure of Armenian Army http://www.mil.am/eng/index.php?page=5  warning page will take forever to load. Vartanm 06:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

T-72
If you google T-72, on the first page you get a result at the bottom with the title T-72 Main Battle Tank 1974-93 - Page 41 - Google Books Result with the text are located in the Caucasus region in Armenia (246), Georgia (251) and Azerbaijan (314). However the link is broken. Does anyone know where a pdf of the book can be found so this can be investigated? The book also seems to be buyable on ebooks and amazon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Achemish (talk • contribs) 23:08, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

T-90s
I'd want to see a citation for pretty weaponry with something like the T-90. To the best of my knowledge, the Armenian Army's mainstay MBT is the T-72, if not the newer T-80s, otherwise that stat goes.--MarshallBagramyan 00:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I sent a message to the user who posted it as well to see if he has a source for it. It's cool news if Armenia's going to buy. - Fedayee 00:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

--- (Melting Pot of Friendship (talk) 01:09, 26 September 2014 (UTC)) here. Armenia won a T90S in the most recent tank biathlon in Russia. Simply google it, and you might be able to get a source. They recieved a T90S tank certificate. ---

Hey guys,

I have deleted the T-62 and T-64 from the list of tanks. Armenian army does not operate the T-62 and T-64. The T-64 was never been exported. Armenia has bought many T-72 tanks withing few years from Russia (many are with help of Russian politicians for free) So there is also no need in using the old T-62. The Armenian army already operates the T-55. So, they have possibly gone some improvements in their mobility systems to use them for a time.

Thanks a lot.

Gr. Soner

size
"10,357, including 30,634 conscripts" - Can someone explain this phrase ?

What is the size of the Armenian army ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheMightyGeneral (talk • contribs) 00:03, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

BMP-2 and armstrade.org source
I edited the number of BMP-2s because the source, which is a PDF file, states that. Other PDF files I have screencapped, have stated that Armenia modernized 100 IFVs/APCs. (UPDATE: From News sources such as razmdotinfo, I have learned that it was most likely a *modernization* of 100 or 50 BMP-2s, and not an actual purchase of new units. Would we be able to update the side note for the BMPs? I have another source that does state that Armenia recieved 110 IFVs. This would correspond with the possible modernization listed in the PDF. Could we possibly do an update for the number of BMPs as well?)

Page 17 of source 22.This source is used throughout the page. I simply edited the number, assuming that it was edited in 2012, to the most recent figure. It was returned back to 55 for some reason. It looks like the person who made the edit, did not read the PDF.

(Melting Pot of Friendship (talk) 01:04, 26 September 2014 (UTC)); --
 * I have no objections - be bold, and feel free to add the material as a side note in the right column with the requisite sources. We can tweak anything that might require it. --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:55, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

-- Alright, I edited the page. I included some other sources I found that talked about a number of BTR-80s that were hidden from inspectors until recently. It did not specify an actual number. I also edited the T72s to also mention the units in NKR, including the 33 unit acquisition officially announced. I had some trouble with editing for a sec, so the summary isn't there for some reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melting Pot of Friendship (talk • contribs) 22:17, 26 September 2014 (UTC) --

Alright, I have added one more bit to the BTR-70s. If you google BTR-70 Armenia, you can see an upgraded version with a new gun and new engine in a street in I think Gyumri, and you can see them on parade. I cannot find a formal source yet, because these BTR-70 have not been seen in a while. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melting Pot of Friendship (talk • contribs) 18:36, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I generally do not object to your edits, but I think it would help to be a little cautious when it comes to the sources. For example, you cite the RFE/RL article to back up the statement that 33 T-72s have been moved to the NKR army, whereas the article does not specify the tank type. I have no doubt in my mind that the tanks it is referring to are T-72s (and not T-80s or T-90s), but lacking a more clearer reference, we can't write it as such without definite proof. Ditto for the BMP-2s in storage - I can't seem to find the reference in the source (which certainly is not in Russian as is stated in the article) - and making haphazard guesses on the armament of the BTR-70s. Unless otherwise noted, those statements need to be either revised or removed.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:25, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

There is photographic evidence of upgrading the BTR-70s, not sure if I can use that as a source, doubt it. I cant seem to find a text source specifically talking about it, but these BTR-70s were featured in a parade and shown on the streets of an Armenian city. The gun is a 23mm/30mm cannon, and the rear of the vehicle indicates an engine upgrade. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-z5W780_5T3E/UOXOW7GxvJI/AAAAAAAAAOE/L8m2Nu7z3YM/s1600/Armenia+BTR-70.jpg


 * I think that may be more acceptable but I wonder if those BTR-70s belong to the Ministry of the Interior/Ministry of National Security and Internal Affairs, which has its own separate article under Armenian Border Guard, and not the Army per se. Because the first photo is from the martial laws days in March 2008, although there were a considerable number of BMP-1s on the street that day too, indicating army presence...--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:12, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

You have a point, but I am not sure why they would feature border guard equipment in a an army parade (2006)


 * That's true as well. I wish we had more detailed sources, but this is what we've got to work with. The only other thing I can think of is visiting YouTube or seeing if any footage exists of the parade, where the announcers usually identified the name of the participating units.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:03, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Looked on mil.am, nothing about the 2006 parade. I can't find anything. Those upgrades were unique, no firm does them. No footage, no pictures of that parade. Speaking of pictures, would it be possible to add pictures from the 2011 parade to represent vehicles on the page? Most pictures can be found here: http://www.mil.am/1316799969/page/1

I leave it here just in case someone wants to go through the trouble of crediting, uploading, etc.


 * Yeah, unfortunately it doesn't appear on YouTube either. I had a videotape recording of it from a long time ago, but that's unfortunately missing and nowhere to be found. As regarding the uploading of those photos - if I am not mistaken, I believe there are some copyright issues to be resolved with material from the Republic of Armenia. We actually had a good collection of high-quality photos of BRDM-2s and armored vehicles from the 2006 parade but they were all removed some time ago because of issues with the copyright. These Chinese-made knockoffs of the Nissan Titan pickup trucks should also be mentioned in the article. They're very widely used in the Armenian Army.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 22:14, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I completely agree about the trucks, I am more interested in vehicles behind those however. Those technicals, they are in wide use with recon battalions and special forces. Do you think you might be able to ID them? It seems as if those pick up truck technicals are also in use with the special forces. Considering the most recent operation conducted by special forces, do you think it would be wise to include a section in the article about them?


 * I wish I could. I could have sworn that they were of all Chinese make, but I am having some difficulty finding some sources and even Wikipedia doesn't include any similar vehicles in the entries on the PLA. The military parade announcers stated they're used for reconnaissance. Regarding a section on special forces, if you find any sources, which have been particularly difficult to come by (maybe the defense ministry websites might have something), I would not mind its inclusion.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I see, well I found a hetq.am article, which is an interview with members. We know there is 1 spetsnaz regiment, 3 recon battalions. The recon battalions wear blue berets, and the Spetsnaz, wear black berets. Then, there is NKR Special Forces who can be seen in the parades, and along with them there are NKR National Defense, who are also seen in parades. Perhaps, the use the article and footage as a source, would be appropriate?

http://hetq.am/eng/news/56053/reconn...r-actions.html

...hmmm, I wish we had something more solid than Hetq.am but I guess it should do. Just a small section and a few details on them should do.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 04:11, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, Im an idiot. I found the best picture of the BTR-70s on parade in 2006 - http://www.armyrecognition.com/forum_pic/Republic_of_Armenia_army_parade_006.jpg

Ive seen that picture 100 times, and never noticed the 23mm gun

Also, those recon trucks, specifically the smaller ones, are modded UAZ pickup trucks. The larger ones, I have no idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melting Pot of Friendship (talk • contribs) 21:23, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Tables
I've converted most of the equipment section of the page into different tables, but I have realized the article is too long. Could this be moved to a separate equipment page like many other articles like it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retaurn (talk • contribs) 03:59, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have reverted your edits because part of it was unsourced inflation of numbers and most of it was about planned/alleged future purchases from Russia, and we don't add equipment until reliable sources say it has been delivered. Thomas.W talk 07:16, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

I will address your allegations here now.

>"I have reverted your edits because part of it was unsourced inflation of numbers"

This is a lie. I have not included ANY numbers in my edits, in fact I have only removed false statistics (Like the 100 BMP-2s added by another user. The source says 50 in Russian.)

All numbers in the tables are taken from the bullet points in the previous version, which were provided by another user years ago. I believe those numbers are based off the ISS Military Balance 2013 source. As for the SCUD missiles and number of launchers, those can be found on the operators section of the SCUD short-range ballistic missile system article

> most of it was about planned/alleged future purchases from Russia

These are not planned or alleged, read the sources and educate yourself on the matter. All items added are part of an arms deal that has already gone through and is in the process of delivery. Your excuse: "We don't include equipment that isn't in service" is a falsification. Articles on the same subject for dozens of different armed forces include statistics on equipment that is in the process of being obtained or produced.

>"we don't add equipment until reliable sources say it has been delivered"

The T90S that was included in this article by a user nearly a year ago did not actually arrive in Armenia until THIS May, shortly after the 2016 clashes. (Armenia won this tank in 2014) You never removed that statistic from the article however. Visit the Ukrainian Armed Forces equipment article and you will see that there are figures for tanks that are in the process of being produced.

You are being hypocritical. Do not revert my edit again using this illogical reasoning, or I will contact the administrators of this website.

I have undone your revert, and I have removed information on the Iskander missile system previously added by another user. Retaurn (talk) 22:08, 21 May 2016 (UTC) -

I have placed the items that are being acquired by the Armenian military and the Iskander-M system under the "Future Equipment" category. Hopefully this will satisfy you and prevent more reverting to the older, much more inaccurate and falsified version Retaurn (talk) 00:43, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

The equipment needs to be its own separate article/Recent massive edits
This page has gotten too long with all the tables, pictures, etc. Perhaps a separate Equipment page is in order? Also, a great deal of unsourced material is being added to the page. The tables and pictures that are being added are distorting the structure of the page as well. Can the user doing these edits appear in the talk page so that we may discuss this?

Tables and a new wiki article
It seems as if somebody has copied and pasted most of the tables with slight adjustments onto the Armenian Armed Forces article, along with organizing it according to the branches. I like this idea, as Air Defense is a separate branch and its equipment chart has no place on the Army's article.

However, I do believe it is necessary to solve the issue of having duplicate tables on two pages regarding the exact same thing. Would an equipment article be needed, or shall we just delete the tables on one of the pages? - This has also been posted on the Armed Forces article's talk page Retaurn (talk) 07:36, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Note related new article Special Forces of Armenia.
MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)