Talk:Armenian cuisine/Archive 1

Help needed with citations
I have added a lot of material to this page but really need help with the citations. Could someone possibly look through the following sources and add relevant citations?


 * 1) http://www.houshamadyan.org/en/home.html
 * 2) Sonia Uvezian, The Cuisine of Armenia, Hipopcrene Books, NY, 1974


 * 1) Alice Antreassian and Mariam Jebejian, Classic Armenian Recipes: Cooking Without Meat (Ashod Press, NY, 1981)
 * 2) Համազգային Մշակութային և Կրթական Ընկերակցութիւն, Հայկական Տոհմիկ Օր, Ճաշացանկ (թիւ 1-6) a collection of Armenian recipes organized by region (Aintab, Tigranakert, Taron, etc.).
 * 3) Irina Petrosian and David Underwood. Armenian Food, Fact, Fiction, and Folklore
 * 4) Any other sources, of course.

Appalling!
The quality of this article is appalling! As others pointed out, half the recipes listed here are not Armenian and recipes that should have been listed are not. At the minimum, the article should be divided into sections to the regional cuisines of Eastern and Western Armenia, of Cilicia and of Bolis (Istanbul). I suggest the following as reliable sources and good starting points (but, alas!, only that):

1. Sonia Uvezian, The Cuisine of Armenia, Hipopcrene Books, NY, 1974

2. Alice Antreassian and Mariam Jebejian, Classic Armenian Recipes: Cooking Without Meat (Ashod Press, NY, 1981) 3. Համազգային Մշակութային և Կրթական Ընկերակցութիւն, Հայկական Տոհմիկ Օր, Ճաշացանկ (թիւ 1-6) a collection of Armenian recipes organized by region (Aintab, Tigranakert, Taron, etc.)

I am not aware of any scholarly treatise about historic and regional Armenian cuisine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.112.49 (talk) 06:56, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments invited (1 August 2008)
The article Cuisine of Armenia has been substantially revised, with many new inputs added. Comments and suggestions for further improvements are invited. --Zlerman (talk) 10:30, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Lets be realistic
Come on everyone, I know we love listing our Armenian foods, but lets be realistic, I am very very proud of being an Armenian, I am half Eastern armenian and half Western Armenian, but lets be fair when writing and listing different types of foods, 70% of the food on this page is NOT Armenian, it originated from the Middle East, such as Syria and lebanon and also Iran, Yes we may have been making it for a long time, but someone tell me how many Armenians in 1850 or 1710 were making Fattoush as a Salad. I can confidently say NONE!. ( : other than those who were in lebanon or Syria before the Genocide of the Armenian people. The drinks are the best section of this page, all clearly Armenian. lets stick to our roots, even if it means reducing this page to half its size at least we can say its ARMENIAN FOOD!... I know some foods were stolen from the Armenians, but none are listed here. for gods sake. since when is Ponchik armenian!!!!!..its so clearly a Russian Donut. Well hope u all agree..!! thanks ( : —Preceding unsigned comment added by Armenikos (talk • contribs) 06:28, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As an outside reader with great interest in food but without any Armenian sentiments, I am shocked and appalled by the non-encyclopedic quality of this article. I fully share the views expressed by Armenikos above. In addition, there are at least 22 (yes, twenty two!) foreign-language food items without any explanation as to what they represent. On the other hand, the generic string cheese is mentioned without even giving its Armenian name. Some dishes link to articles that do not mention Armenia (crawfish, Cisco fish). The alcoholic beverages section is a list of brand names (Kotayk, Ararat), not beverages, and no information is offered on the two Armenian wines listed — Areni wine and pomegranate wine. Much work is required to bring Cuisine of Armenia to a level objectively acceptable in a general English-language encyclopedia. I am therefore changing the rating of this article to "stub" in the hope that editors interested in this topic will try to improve it. --Zlerman (talk) 12:42, 20 July 2008 (UTC)


 * And on top of everything else, I now see that the original section on soups is blatantly plagiarized from the soup section here. --Zlerman (talk) 22:04, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I still think that there needs to be a differentiation between the cuisine of the Republic of Armenia and the cuisine of the Armenian Diaspora. Or at the very least it needs to be mentioned. Btw, most people in Armenia would have no clue what Fattoush is.--  Ευπάτωρ   Talk!! 20:51, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree, but I am simply not qualified to do this. Someone with a good understanding of the culinary and gastronomic differences will have to step it. Can you do it, Eupator? --Zlerman (talk) 22:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Inclusion
I'm just wondering what to include and what not to include. Zaatar,Hummus, taboule etc. are popular in the Diaspora but essentialy unknown in Armenia. On the other hand Borscht, Beef Stroganoff, Pelmeni, satsivi (very popular Georgian dish), mushroom julienne, Vinaigrette salad etc. are extremely common and popular dishes in Armenia but unknown in the diaspora. Both or none? --Eupator 03:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Both my friend -- Fedayee 11:25, 10 September 2006
 * Both it is then. I will expand this article greatly in the coming weeks.--Eupator 03:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Man, this article is making me hungry. Where are the boeregs? -- Clevelander 20:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Eggplant
Eggplant should certainly be mentioned (is there a dish called "imam bayeldi")? Badagnani 04:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm, imam bayıldı is part of Turkish cuisine, but Armenians make and eat it commonly too, (Diasporan Armenians do at least, not sure about Armenians in Armenia), i'll add it to the list. - Fedayee 04:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response. There are a lot of Turkish dishes that might be claimed by both cultures. Of course there were millions of Armenians in eastern Turkey before the genocide, and Armenians also used the same musical instruments (kanun, oud, etc.). I'm just eating some of those whole walnuts that come in a jar, in sugar syrup--is that worth mentioning? Badagnani 05:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yumm, I believe those are called "Noush/Nush". You have good taste. - Fedayee 05:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

216.185.64.34 17:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)I think you are missing a very special staple in Armenian food, Pilaf. I know that this is a general term rather than a specific food but the most common form of Pilaf is saute noodles with rice in a chicken broth. Please include this. It is an accepted term in the US and Canada and comes from Armenians.

Arak/raki
How about arak/raki liquor? I see that in Armenian restaurants. Badagnani 05:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, we call it "oghee/oghi" - Fedayee 05:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Move
Propose move this article to "Armenian Cuisine" as to include cuisine made not only in Armenia country but by Armenians nation. Any objections? Steelmate (talk) 05:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

i deleted "armenian cofee" because there is no such thing, even the link leads to turkish coffee, armenians drink ottoman coffee - efe122 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.4.224.76 (talk) 06:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, "ottoman" coffee is Ethiopian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.194.63.129 (talk) 11:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Beverages
i have renamed "armenian coffee because the link leads to turkish coffee", i have renamed it to "turkish coffee" - efe122 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.4.224.76 (talk) 06:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Merger of Armenian soups into this article
The result was merge into Cuisine of Armenia. -- Debate   木  14:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The article Armenian soups has been tagged for merger with this article since May 2007 by User:DragonflySixtyseven (talk). There have been no clear objections, and no discussion, since that time which suggests that the proposal is not controversial. All substantive content has already been moved over so concluding the merger would simply involve replacing the appropriate redirect. Although discussion is not required per WP:Merge, Badagnani (talk) has requested that a discussion occur as he appears to feels that a more obvious expression of support is required. Personally, I can't see any reason why the article should not be moved. It has improved the article Cuisine of Armenia and it makes good sense to me to consolidate the content in one central article. Debate  木  03:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Strongly support the suggestion to merge Armenian soups with Cuisine of Armenia. In my opinion, the entire Category:Soups and especially Subcategory:Soups by country should be critically revamped and consolidated for improved readability. --Zlerman (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. As the person who originally implemented the merger, I don't see how having an extremely stubby, un-sourced page that is extremely specialized will be a benefit over a more centralized (and at the moment pretty sparse) general page for multiple kinds of foods of Armenia.  Having the article appear on the "Cuisine" page would allow a better chance that the content will improve over it's current form much faster.  If the article becomes unwieldy, it can always be spun off to the "soups" page. Radagast83 (talk) 07:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion closed, merge done.--IngerAlHaosului (talk) 12:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Image nominated for deletion
No notice was placed here that has been nominated for deletion. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  23:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Other images used on this page may also have been nominated -- please check all by clicking on them to see if there is a deletion notification on the image page. If there is, use the link that takes you to "this image's entry" to comment on the nomination for deletion. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz)  (talk / cont)  01:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

request edit
hi good people of wikipedia contributers, this page is entirely improper and has lack of any citations, i've read many disrespectful comments of views far from being objective, please regulate this page, all of armenian, turkish, kurdish, arabic...etc people need correct and rightful information about armenian cuisine.thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eneth09 (talk • contribs) 12:56, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

"External influences"
I think the whole section on "external influences" should be deleted unless it is massively improved. First, it has no citations. There are some interesting claims about tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers, but those claims are not backed by citations to any scholarly research. The entire paragraph about Turkish influences seems problematic. On one hand, the paragraph says that it's impossible to determine what the mutual influences between Turkish and Armenian cuisine are due to the lack of scholarship, but on the other hand the tone of the whole paragraph is pretty clearly: "I think that a bunch of these 'Turkish' dishes are really Armenian dishes but I can't prove it because of Ottoman discrimination and the Armenian Genocide." Those two statements are incompatible. If there's no proof, then it's just speculation, and taking that tone is violating the neutral point of view policy of Wikipedia. One needs evidence that the Turkish dishes are Armenian: just wanting to believe that for nationalistic reasons is not good enough. Other nationalistic boasts were placed in the section: for example, the early wine-making history of the Caucasus and Urartian beer production being used to "motivate" surprise that Armenian cuisine does not involve much alcohol. The text seems mostly like a boast about how old Armenia is -- I don't see any connection between Iron Age and Chalcolithic-era archaeological finds and the modern cuisine. This is an encyclopedia article, so it should stick to the facts and not include so much nationalistic boasting (especially unreferenced and non-NPOV boasting). Ketone16 (talk) 14:53, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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Petrosian & Underwood
Hi Seraphim System. I propose to restore the references to Petrosian & Underwood, which you removed in this edit. As pointed in WP:PUS, "these may appear to be reliable as they are in Google Books and Amazon, but they have no editorial oversight.". Thus, publishing with lulu.com does not automatically mean that the source is unreliable. Indeed, this book is offered at Amazon and it has received very positive reviews there. --Off-shell (talk) 23:01, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * SPS are not outright banned but there is a strong presumption against their use. The policy requires that the author who self-published by an established expert in the field who has previously been published by third-party publishers (when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.—I was not able to find prior publications by these authors. I agree the book seems to have been well-received, and maybe future publications by these authors will meet Wikipedia's standard for WP:RS but I think we have to follow the policy on WP:SPS here. Seraphim System ( talk ) 23:09, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

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