Talk:Army Cadet Force/Archive 1

Recruits
"Once the recruit's test, consisting of ranks and badges, country code and the history of the ACF, has been passed, new cadets are given their cap badge to put onto their beret."

In my sector (London and NE) the berets and cap badge (most of the time, since some units must order their cap badges) and the basic star badge represents that they've passed basic.

I am certain that this is not standard ACF practise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.3.124.178 (talk) 20:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Although this is not ACF policy, in the majority of areas what is quoted above is the usual practice. Jh  fireboy  Talk  21:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Help with Cites and Referencing please
Could this article have some help with Cites and References please. Jez ☎ ✉ ✍ 16:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

List of Units?
Does this sound like a good idea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Racooon (talk • contribs) 09:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

hi

yes it would be a good idea - Who is this? Please sign your comments


 * I don't think that would be feasible, however a list of counties with details would be useful. Lemon Demon (talk) 22:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been doing a lot of work on where the detachments are based, and am gaining all this info from only one external site The ACF Interactive Map. As you can see this section is still not finished! I have only managed to complete from Scotland down to the West Midlands.. I have skipped back and started adding Wiki Links to the towns where the detachments are based (if there is a wiki article)... My personal opinion is to KEEP It needs input from either individual county ACF Websites or cadets / adult instructors, as to what regular army units are associated with which detachments. I think once we have this info complete, we could then relook at moving it off to its own article. Jez ☎ ✉ ✍ 18:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * UPDATE After looking at the Scouting in England talkpage, I see that the Scouts had each individual county but are now gradually merging each article into an overall region, representing the 9 official regions of England (plus NI, Scotland, Wales). This would makes some sense within the main ACF article, and once they have grown in stature then each section could become its own article. Jez ☎ ✉ ✍ 18:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I have removed it but then got into a massive argument with someone who wanted it speedily deleted, its there for the time being but needs work, sorry I have to much to do so someone else can do that--Pandaplodder (talk) 16:52, 11 October 2008 (UTC)well here is your answer: Once the AfD notice has been placed, it can not be removed, please do not do so again. I have also nominated List of Air Training Corps squadrons as well, for much the same reasons. ninety:one 16:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it may well as be easier to list an external link.--Pandaplodder (talk) 16:55, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * interesting move. Currently I fully understand why somebody would want to speedily delete this new page, as it just wiki links without context. I am proposing its moved back to the Army Cadet Force Article, until it merits being moved to a new page of regional ACF units. Jez ☎ ✉ ✍ 15:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

No need to I have put the link in for the ACF interactive map, there is absolutely no encyclopedic value from a long list of place names. As it was it just made the article look a mess--Pandaplodder (talk) 12:30, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I just have a VERY personal view in this list, as I spent about 16 hours adding more placenames, and wikifying those links, to the few that were already there. I firmly believe in time this could have been a good list to spin off to its own article. It would have needed more details, especially History of units and links to parent British Army Regiments. Hence the request above to keep the list here. As it is, now that you have moved and its nominated for deletion it will never see the light of day. Never mind.. taught me a big lesson about Wikipedia. Jez ☎ ✉ ✍ 13:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

People are already on about cutting articles down of comparable length to this one (ATC), the list is still available for time being, if you want to do something with that then go ahead but a list of places names will get speedy deleted at some point, this isn't my saying so but others, so don't blame me.--Pandaplodder (talk) 23:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Training section
The training section was removed, before the large chunk of editing by Pandaplodder. Could this be re-added in the appropriate place. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 16:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

For a moment then I thought you were blaming me then, who is Michel Jacson? I removed the 'by Michel Jacson' who seemed to have removed the early text, I am currently looking at these sections seeing how they can be restored but referenced. Probably will take a week or so as it is a substantial section.--Pandaplodder (talk) 16:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. And i wasn't blaming you for the removal, far from it. Thank you for all your effort in this article and the other cadet articles. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 17:22, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ranks
The adult instructors section needs more work to it. It is not massively clear how the rank progression works. Also the ranks section needs A LOT of work. I don't think the table format works. It is also not clear that it is talking about cadet ranks or adult ranks. The rank details are not ACF specific and seem to out line those ranks in the real British army. Also there is no mention of the rank of sergeant. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 13:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there anyone out there who wants to sort out this section? Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 20:02, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's all looking much better now! Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

LSW Contradiction?
In the skill at arms section it states "...the LSW is slowly being phased out of service due to increase in military demand." Yet in the Shooting section it says "The LSW will soon be taken out of service in the army cadet corps due to safety reasons, although only senior three star cadets can shoot it, it is still dangerous for themselves and cadets around them without proper army standard training."

I can vouch that the former is true. If there is any reason for an LSW to be taken away by brigade for anything other than 6 monthly checks we don't expect to get them back. The part about it being dangerous for cadets to use is tosh. That's why they have to undergo the training and testing, and it is only the senior, more highly trainined and consequently older cadets that are allowed to use them. As for 'army standard training', that's precicely why adult instructors are instructed by serving regular soldiers to teach weapon handling. Any ACF instructor who is not competant is not allowed to teach, plain and simple.

I would suggest that the latter section should be removed.--El Rog 15:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Lemon Demon (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the sentence about the LSW being phased out due to military demand as it is simply not true. I would have been informed at HQ if the LSW was being phased out of the syllabus. LSWs MAY be taken away temporarily if required. Praetorian65 (talk) 23:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Uniform section
I am quite shocked that there is not a uniform section. Any one want to add a section about the uniform of both cadets and adult instructor/officers? Adding a bit about the development of uniform to how it is today would be a good idea too. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I have begun a section on currently issued uniform. It could do with some expansion but it is a start. Praetorian65 (talk) 00:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Spam
parts of this article are written like adverts and don't comply with Spam such as telling people how to join and generally promoting it, also this article only has 25 references all of which apart from about 3 have a connection with the Army Cadet Force or the MOD.C. 22468 (talk) 12:35, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Editing
Can we please be careful when editing this article. A few of us have put a fair amount of work into editing it and rewriting it to improve it and make sure it conforms to Wikipedia's guidelines. One or two people have been adding bits and pieces that have no place in an encyclopaedia. Praetorian65 (talk) 19:38, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Music within the Training Section
I have added a brief piece of information within the Core Subjects part of the Training Section relating to Music within the ACF. Bob the Bandy (talk) 12:52, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Adult Instructors (Courses)
Can a date be found for the replacement of the older course by the present day mandatory Adult Leadership and Management course for Adult Instructors? "The new course" is meaningless without a date - and as time goes on the course will be less new.Cloptonson (talk) 21:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Are you looking for the date that the AIs course became a skill at arms course or the date of the first ALM course? Praetorian65 (talk) 20:07, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Females joining ACF
I have made an entry for the Girls Venture Corps which was formed in the early 1940's GVC units were often attached to ACF and ATC units, does anyone know when the ACF started admitting girls directly? I think there should be some mention of this.--Pandaplodder (talk) 13:04, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1992, if what I was taught in my recruits training last year is anything to go by. :) Malpass93 (talk) 23:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Not sure this is right. I remember females as far back as 1990, possibly even 1989 in my mob.Hairyhaw (talk) 14:42, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I can tell you that some units had them even earlier as I clearly remember 1983 summer camp on Salisbury Plain there were a lot of girls in one of the counties units. If I remember correctly they could only admit them if they had a woman as an adult instructor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.159.213 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Courses
I have removed the section on Junior Leaders in order to help clean up the article as although it is open to ACF it is an Air Training Corps course, and I personally have never known any ACF cadets that have done it (I am an ACF instructor), though I do not doubt that there are a few who have. There is no need to go into detail about it here when there is space for it on the ATC page. Praetorian65 (talk) 13:13, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you are very wrong, it is not "an ATC" course at all the CVQC covers a lot of organisations, so young people can earn recognised qualifications such as the ILM level 2, unfortunately, a lot of time has elapsed since this edit so I will leave it to someone else to reinstate. Pandaplodder (talk) 08:43, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

The Junior Leaders course is very much an ATC course and is run by the ATC, and since I removed the course from this section I have still never seen any places on the course advertised within the ACF or known any cadets who have gone on it. I am not sure what you mean by CVQC. I am aware of CVQO which runs vocational qualifications for the cadet organisations, but the ATC Junior Leaders course is not related to the CVQO. Praetorian65 (talk) 20:51, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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cadet rank missing
hi can you please add the rank potential to the cadet ranks army cadet ranks goes like this cadet POTENTIAL lance corprol corprol and so on you have got it all except from potential which is a rank

Please add it because it has confused a lot of new recruits in my detachment thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobi08202 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * This is not an official rank in the ACF. As it sounds like a local thing it would not be appropriate to add it here. Praetorian65 (talk) 19:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is not a rank, it is not local either the Potential is for Adults only coming from the rank Potential Instructor, and as this is talking about Cadets not Adult Instructors it's not appropriate to add here. Also it is spelled Lance-Corporal and Corporal for future reference.

Shrewsbury_Edits 8:43, 22 February 2017

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Rank table
I reverted the rank table used for cadet ranks for the following reasons: Praetorian65 (talk) 12:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It could not be edited and was incorrect. "Recruit" is not a specific rank in cadets, and new recruits are issued the cadet rank slide with their uniform
 * It used some kind of rank code CDT 1, CDT 2 etc and these do not exist in any official publication
 * The categories used to group cadets either do not exist or have specific meanings for the ACF. All cadets are either "Junior Cadets" or "Senior Cadets". A Junior Cadet is any cadet who has not yet passed their APC 2 Star. All cadets who are 2 Star complete are Senior Cadets. There is no "Commanding Cadet" category.
 * The correct categories for ranks are either "Junior NCO" or "Senior NCO". A Senior NCO is a Sergeant or above.

I see it has been reverted again. It is a nice table however the issue with it need to be resolved. Praetorian65 (talk) 14:40, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Praetorian65 - My apologies, I hadn't noticed it had previously been removed, re-titled Junior and Senior as suggested, added cadet rank slide to recruit, made more easily editable. Cdjp1 (talk) 16:12, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Cdjp1 This looks much better. The thing I would question is the CDT-1, CDT-2 etc. These are not mentioned in any publication. If the intention is to match it to the NATO rank system then it should start at CDT-3 for LCpl, CDT-4 for Cpl, skip CDT-5, CDT-6 for Sgt etc, ending at CDT-9 for RSM. Praetorian65 (talk) 18:01, 18 October 2019 (UTC)