Talk:Arnie Lerma

Death and the reliability of sources per BLP
Hi everyone! I just wanted to add a section here to let all concerned parties know that I removed the changes on the article that state that this person is dead - including the date amended to the summary paragraph, the article section, and any details that were added about it. The source cited doesn't appear to be independent of the subject, as the author (Tony Ortega) appears to be involved with Scientology as well and used his domain to post the news. This obviously creates concerns and compromises reliability per WP:BLP. One other source I found points to a Twitter post by (what appears to be) Tony Ortega's account as their source, which also calls into question the verifiability of the changes to the content. Therefore, until a reliable source that's secondary and written by an author that's completely independent of the article subject is located - I don't feel that this content meets Wikipedia's requirements per WP:BLP and it has been removed accordingly. Please let me know if anyone has any questions or if a reliable source surfaces that meets the BLP requirements. I'd like to take a look before changes are made.

Also, please take note that this article subject is under a topic where discretionary sanctions are authorized by uninvolved administrators (see ArbCom case). If the information is repeatedly added back and without a reliable source that's compliant with Biographies of living persons, I will increase the protection of the article as needed so that this policy is consistently applied and enforced. I don't want to have to do that, but I will if it means that violations of Wikipedia's BLP policy are avoided and a fair, open, and positive editing environment is maintained. Thanks :-)  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   07:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Completely understand the reluctance of adding the Ortega piece to the article, I'm sure something else will be forthcoming soonish. I do want to mention that Ortega himself is notable as a investigative journalist with his own Wikipedia page, and if he is reporting this story, then it is solid. He has a reputation that he must keep pristine when it comes to reporting, and is careful to only report on stories that have checked out. I think it is fine to use Ortega's story on the Lerma page, but if others think we should wait for a second source I won't fight on that. BUT one thing we should make very clear, Oshwah you wrote "(Tony Ortega) appears to be involved with Scientology as well" and as I know what you mean, others may not. Ortega is involved with Scientology like Brian Deer is involved with Andrew Wakefield in other words Deer and Ortega Tony Ortega (journalist) are both investigative journalists. Both men are often attacked by the organizations they write about, so we need to be careful how we present their work.Sgerbic (talk) 18:32, 22 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi. Sorry, I did not catch this notice and updated based on inclusion in Wikipedia necrology. Will undo or hide until death can be confirmed. Quis separabit?  01:54, 23 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Article located in Sylvania Telephone newspaper. Not online.  Quoted and added alongside Tony Ortega's blog. 8&#61;&#61;8 Boneso (talk) 10:11, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * This link is not static but the article is there. I don't know if this is useful or not: http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODN/Sylvaniatelephone/Default.aspx Candy (talk) 13:50, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks Candy. I did not use the link because it will be valid after March 29th.  The the Sylvania Telephone is a weekly.  The article will still be accessible at that site, but not directly from that link. I was also unable to archive the article on the Wayback Machine.  It took me a lot of searching to find it.  Its a shame, really.  8&#61;&#61;8 Boneso (talk) 19:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, 8&#61;&#61;8 Boneso, that's what I was stymied by! It's too bad, but at the same time, we can't always link to sources on the net. We link to books, etc., all the time. At least we tried! Candy (talk) 13:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)