Talk:Arnold Ehret/Archive 1

Alias claim
I found this link that seems to claim that "Ehret" was really a pseudonym for Benedict Lust and/or for Fred Hirsch. http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020113Ehret/020113bibliographic.html

Anyone know this?

Cheezerman 10:04, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I just read the page and don't see anywhere on it where they say so... They say they published the books, not wrote them.


 * "Ehret is worthy of inclusion in this library, even if "Ehret" was really a pseudonym for Benedict Lust and/or for Fred Hirsch. It seems to me that there is something about "Ehret" that lends to antagonistic faction and disputiveness."
 * Cheezerman 05:04, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

A photo of Ehret and Hirsch appears in the book The Cause and Cure of Human Illness, along with many other photos of Ehret. If Ehret was a pseudonym of Beneidct Lust/Fred Hirsch, where is the proof for the assertion made by soilandhealth.org.Zanze123 (talk) 16:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Life of Arnold Ehret
Are there any non-primary sources for his early life? A lot of the information presented in the "early life" and "later life" sections sounds suspect to me, but I can't find any additional sources to verify the Child source which doesn't seem to satisfy WP:RS. Voiceofreason01 (talk) 22:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

What exactly do you question? What issue with the Child source? One of the German books in the publications section has a link - and the book contains correspondence to and from Ehret. There is a book about the Ascona Colony by Robert Landmann. Also one by Andreas Schwab. Ehret appears in both. The books contain photos of Ehret. Ehret wrote 2 articles in the journal Lebenskunst in 1911. There is also a testimonial by Paul Liberner of Bavaria in the magazine Lebeskunst, number 9, 1912. The magazine Die Sonne on July 15, 1912, nr. 14p 109 and 110 has an article by Dr Katz, owner of a Natural Healing Center in Stuttgart about Ehret. Ehret also appeared in the Vegetarischen Warte, date unknown. According to Gordon Kennedy's article Still Ehret, his father was a farmer who built his own farm machinery, hence cause and effect. Zanze123 (talk) 01:22, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Landmann, Robert (1979) (in German). Ascona - Monte Verità. Ullstein. ISBN 354834013X.
 * Landmann, Robert [= Werner Ackermann]: Ascona - Monte Verità. Auf der Suche nach dem Paradies. Frauenfeld: Huber 1990 (Neuauflage), 304 S., ca. 24 Abb. ISBN 3-7193-1219-4.
 * Landmann, Robert: Ascona - Monte Verità. Die Geschichte eines Berges, Ascona Pancaldi Verlag 1930; (Roman von Werner Ackermann, der für kurze Zeit Mitbesitzer am Monte Verità gewesen war)
 * Schwab, Andreas: Monte Verità - Sanatorium der Sehnsucht. Zürich: Orell Füssli 2003. 286 S., 19 s/w Fotos, zahlr. Abb. ISBN 3-280-06013-3
 * Museo Monte Verità handout "Highlights in the History of Monte Verità", Edition June 2007

Scientific Claims
Can anybody clarify what the nitrogenous-albumin metabolic theory is and what Ehrets "findings about food values and pH values" are? The way it's written now is confusing and it feels unfinished. Voiceofreason01 (talk) 18:28, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Read Mucusless Diet book - for explanations of the metabolism theory, food values and pH values. See also Ragnar Berg's Tables. See also Thomas Powell's book Fundamentals on vitalism and Corwyn Samuel West's book The Golden Seven Plus One on lymphology.Zanze123 (talk) 16:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Every time I try to make suggestions on Wikipedia I feel like I am treated with disdain, but here goes ~ the statements about the side effects or possible adverse effects of detoxification don't appear to have a reference. What is the basis of these claims? Or am I missing something? It lists a lot of extreme outcomes. I just wondered. Thanks, don't shout at me, I'm going through a rough time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.180.169.250 (talk) 16:56, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Photo
THERE ARE MANY BEAUTIFUL PHOTOS OF THIS BEAUTIFUL MAN - WHY HAVE YOU CHOSEN THE MOST RED, THE MOST TERRIFYING ONE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.167.107.14 (talk) 15:24, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Article now features authentic photo.Zanze123 (talk) 22:43, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Copy edits
Hi Zanze123. I have taken an editorial proofreader's tour through the article and spruced up some smaller details. I have fixed some spacing and punctuation issues around refs, per MoS. (No spacing before a ref, and punctuation is always placed before, not after, the ref.) I also added default spacing around the headings. These are invisible changes, but they make it easier to find headings when editing. I fixed a few typos I noticed and a few refs that were incomplete. There are still several bare html links in the refs that need fixing. I'll let you do that. I also left a couple editorial notes for things that need to be done. Please look at the diff to my edits very carefully and notice those notes. Good luck. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I also noticed that Ehret's views are linked to many other alternative medicine advocates, many of whom are noted pushers of pseudoscience and fringe POV. There is no form of criticism included in the article, which means it is in violation of NPOV. Can you please include the POV of his critics? That will make the article more complete. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Edits, criticisms and POV issues now addressed. Zanze123 (talk) 22:44, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

NPOV and language editions
This article could do with a review by an uninvolved expert to ensure that WP:NPOV is maintained, as I wasn't convinced that the style of writing or claims made is neutral. Secondly, I removed the list of translations/international editions. If it is included at all, this information should be a footnote to the English edition (where there is an English edition) in the Selected bibliography. Which brings us on to a third point, only notable/important works should be included here. Please add WP:RS to show this. This is not to criticise the whole article, and obviously a lot of work has gone into this. Thanks, Verbal chat  21:21, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

You deleted entire paragraphs without discussion. Please provide comprehensive justification on the Talk page for the paragraphs you deleted. Also explain why only notable/important works should be included when many other authors have all works listed whether or not they were all notable/important; and the same with international editions. ThanksZanze123 (talk) 13:36, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions.
1. Please put the pronunciation of Ehret.

2. The word "pulse" (beans, etc.) is extremely obscure in North America, and I suggest replacing it with "legumes".

Overall, a good article, in my opinion.77Mike77 (talk) 05:52, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
 * This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
 * There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
 * It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
 * In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:37, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

father and grandfather
a person living in st. georgen where ehret was born provided me with a birth document which i just inserted into the article. this document also states that arnold's father was a farmer, his grandfather a vet. i suspect the source with the biography is wrong. Maximilian (talk) 08:44, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, we need published sources, per WP:SOURCE. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 14:20, 14 May 2014 (UTC)


 * i'm familiar with the dispute about published and unpublished sources. in the german wikipedia we tend to accept official certificates like, in this case, the handwritten entry in ehret's village birth registry. it's a public document. if most of the literature about ehret was published in the US (and not in germany), i assume that one author copied the (wrong?) birth date from the other, neglecting checking the original birth document. the 29th, to my knowledge, was the day of his baptism. Maximilian (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Date of Death
The date should be changed from 9 to 10 October. So it's stated in Arnold Ehret Certification of Vital Records Arnold~itwiki (talk) 20:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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I have just modified 11 external links on Arnold Ehret. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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General editing
Hello Wikipedians,

I am being bold and taking some action on this article. 1. Removing the Unreferenced section|date=January 2019 tag because there is not a section in this article which does not contain references.

2. Removing dead and duplicative reference links - in some cases the references provided are literally for the same publication with slightly different details.

3. Reading through to look for other things that can be changed or improved given what seems to be an extensive amount of cleanup that is required.

I'll swing back to the talk page with updates before I go.

Curdigirl (talk) 16:30, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
 * The article is certainly much better now. -- Liberaler Humanist (talk) 18:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
The arnoldehret website was linked over twenty times on the article. That website links to Wikipedia and vise versa, the owner of that website is trying to make money from traffic and is selling items on his website. Per conflict of interest, links to this website have been removed. Psychologist Guy (talk) 19:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Controversial contribution
Hi! Please review these edits: 1, 2. I've restored the first one, but I have serious doubts as to whether it should be kept in this article. Thanks. Juliette Han (talk) 20:09, 13 May 2020 (UTC)


 * There is a sock-puppet who uses many accounts and IPs, he often tries to remove criticism of Ehret and add links to his website arnoldehret.it. The list of publications is excessive and promotional. It was removed a few months ago for good reason, I don't think it should be restored. Psychologist Guy (talk) 20:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Psychologist Guy thinks he owns the Arnold Ehret Page!
It seems to me like he's using the sock-puppetry accusation to exercise his own biased judgement and censor the Arnold Ehret article. The information added by U.Anon.93 is valid and backed up by legitimate sources. Please explain the commercial gain that U.Anon.93 would achieve due to alleged sockpuppetry. Are there links to some websites/supplements in there? The structure of his profile should not be the sole cause of you deleting his whole entry plus your argument of "identical grammar/format thus same person" is weak and only his opinion. He doesn't get to decide which information gets added to a Wiki article just because he spent HUNDREDS of hours posting articles on Wikipedia - that's NOT how it works! New additions should be judged on their quality and not summarily deleted due to frivolous accusations or because the person adding this info doesn't have a million edits like him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyudude (talk • contribs) 18:37, 14 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The Arnold Ehret article contains a lot of unreliable references. Most of the article needs to be re-written. I will attempt this in the next few weeks. If you are talking about the deleted material the content was not reliable because it was self-published from a fringe theorist/white supremacist. Have a read of WP:USESPS.


 * Reliable independent secondary sources are preferred on Wikipedia. However, in some cases self-published sources may indeed be acceptable if the author is an expert. Have a read of WP:USESPS linked above. But Gordon Kennedy is not a qualified historian or an expert in history. A description of the self-published book that you were adding reads "Gordon Kennedy has made his living as an organic farmer for 22 years, and serves as a historical consultant to several raw food publications". Further research reveals that Gordon Kennedy is a raw food pseudoscience advocate and a die-hard defender of Arnold Ehret's disproven dietary ideas . You can Google "Gordon Kennedy" and "Arnold Ehret" and see the link.


 * Gordon Kennedy is associated with the website mucusfreelife, a website which promotes Ehret's diet and sells his books. In conclusion you were re-adding unreliable, self-published and promotional material. There is no censorship by me. If you add reliable sources I would not have reverted you. I am merely following Wikipedia policies.


 * More disturbing. Gordon Kennedy is a white supremacist. He owns a racist website arguing that Native American Indians were originally white . Gordon Kennedy has appeared on Red Ice, a neo-Nazi podcast . This is not the sort of man we should be quoting from to add historical material to Wikipedia articles. Psychologist Guy (talk) 20:01, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Psychologist Guy

1. If you had issues with Gordon Kennedy as a biased source, why didn't you just remove the content that used Gordon Kennedy's work as a  reference instead of just removing EVERYTHING? You also did NOT remove references based on the "Story of My Life" which is a highly contested, piece which many believe is a work of fan fiction by a woman scorned by Arnold Ehret. Regardless of these opinions, nothing has been substantiated from this book and the author listed is allegedly a fictitious person by the name of Anita Bauer. Furthermore, many of the statements that exist in the current version remain uncited. Yet, you kept all references to that in Arnold Ehret's Wiki. Are you ok with that unsubstantiated document just because it paints Arnold Ehret in a negative light but not ok with another document with an actual author listed because it does not? That makes sense to me. 2. Another piece of that text was a direct quote by Arnold Ehret himself, which cannot be disputed. In some cases it makes sense to avoid quoting the primary source but in this case, it's definitely warranted as we're discussing his philosophical views. What better way is there to understand those views than with the direct quote from the subject himself? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyudude (talk • contribs) 17:59, 15 April 2021 (UTC)