Talk:Arnos Grove

Untitled
The following was removed from the main article due to its personal tone:


 * "Housing


 * I first moved to Arnos Grove in 2002 because it was the only place I could afford in London. However, despite the fact that people ften say "where?" when I tell them where I live, I feel Arnos Groove (oh, ok. Arnos Grove) is a smashing place to live. 20 minutes from Kings Cross on the tube, 20 minutes from Moorgate by the train, it is out of the way and surburban without being out of the way, if you get what I mean. I work in Camden and I have 4 different ways of getting into work ( Piccadilly line, 134 bus, Northern line -Totteridge and Whetstone) and the improving Capital Connect trains). Yes it isn't Southgate but it is much nicer than Wood Green, Bounds Green and Finsbury Park whilst being cheaper and less polluted than Finchley. As a result house prices are going up but are still reasonable - so check it out while you can. 1 last thing. It has an untypical "un-London" feel to it. There's a row of GREAt local shops where people chat to you and you can chat to them...NICE!!! So if you are thinking of checking out the area I recommend it.


 * Phil The Geordie"

--DavidCane 23:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Location / duplication
The original house, Arnos Grove (originally Arnold's Grove) still stands. It's on Cannon Hill in Southgate (here's an aerial photo of it:). The grounds of this house did originally extend to the area described in this article, but were more extensive than the article lets on.

If you need a source that this house is the original Arnos Grove (or the site thereof), you'll find it in Alan Dumayne's Southgate: a glimpse into the past. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the book so I can't provide a page number or ISBN.

Another problem with this article is that it says in the introduction "Arnos Grove is also sometimes known as New Southgate." In that case, why doesn't one article redirect to the other? We don't need two articles on the same subject. Waggers 15:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * More on the Arnos Grove estate here. Waggers 15:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I have already taken part in an Arnos Grove/New Southgate argument here. The problem is that the name 'New Southgate' seems to function on two different levels - it can both refer to the N11 postcode and the immediate area around New Southgate railway station. This, coupled with the dispute over which borough New Southgate (the immediate area around the station) is in, has caused a lot of local confusion over the names of areas and their borders. I've actually seen the confusion spill over into other areas, such as Southgate, Palmers Green, Colney Hatch and Friern Barnet, and I don't think Wikipedia has a policy that can solve the problem. In the previous argument I proposed creating a single article for Arnos Grove and New Southgate, called 'Arnos Grove and New Southgate'. I still think that that is the best option as it avoids the confusion. Also, the current location of Arnos Grove, centred around the southern border of the estate, is due to the fact that the area just north of the estate is Southgate, which is a much older and more developed area. The full extent of the estate is obvious from the names of the roads within the estate (particularly Arnos Grove) but, again, it is not easy to determine where, to the north, Arnos Grove ends and Southgate begins, and so it is difficult to describe the area of the estate without a map. Dark-Fire 17:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly, when I lived in the area, Arnos Grove wasn't even seen as being an area. There was the tube station named after the old estate, and the old house in Southgate.  We do have a definitive map of the Arnos Grove estate (I linked to it above) - surely this article should focus on that area.  At present, the article makes it sound like the Arnos Grove estate is coterminous with what's now called New Southgate - that is not true (and if it was, it's a breach of Wikipedia policy to have two articles describing the same thing). Waggers 08:45, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The name 'New Southgate' is no longer popular due to the associated ambiguity. Also, the Enfield/Barnet border is increasingly dividing what was formerly the New Southgate area between Friern Barnet and, the former 'sub-area' Arnos Grove. Looking at things the same way as the boroughs seems to make what they are trying to do clearer - neither Barnet nor Enfield seem to care much about New Southgate, as it is right on the border or the boroughs and has a rather poor (both in service and facilities) train station at its heart. Enfield have a cluster of shops (which they have called 'Arnos Grove shopping centre'), a few schools, a swimming pool, a library and a park grouped around a fairly major tube station, complete with large car parks. Most of these facilities currently, or have had in the past, 'Arnos' in their name, hence the current 'branding' of the area. Barnet, meanwhile, have a large cluster of shops, a library, a few schools and Princess Park Manor (home to many famous people) on their side of the border. As you can see, both boroughs have good reasons to split the area and Enfield, at least, are evidently attempting to do that, with the creation of 'Arnos Grove shopping centre' and the 'Arnos Grove controlled parking zone'. Barnet, being the more affluent borough (because it is in west London) don't need to put so much effort in - Princess Park manor, and the shops around it claim that they are in Friern Barnet. Unfortunately, while both boroughs appear to be trying to make better areas to avoid the cooperation that would be required to maintain New Southgate, which is inevitably still well known for the lunatic asylum, neither borough seems to be concerned about what is left of New Southgate - there is still undoubtedly an area there, albeit a strange one due to the presence of both small shops and warehouses and yet no mid-sized shops or real public facilities other than the train station. Anyway, my basic point is that at the moment, all three areas (Friern Barnet, New Southgate and Arnos Grove) exist seperately, but there is undoubtedly confusion over what will become of New Southgate, during this transitional period. My guess is that the Barnet part of New Southgate will detatch itself (west London is more affluent than east London), leaving substantially smaller New Southgate in the very south west corner of Enfield. That's why I think a single article for both Arnos Grove and New Southgate would be best in the long-term. By the way, the 'at the moment' problems above are not so problematic - the New Southgate article clearly states that New Southgate is entirely in N11, whereas the Arnos Grove article states that Arnos Grove is in N11 and N14, reflecting the historical northwards extension of the area. Dark-Fire 15:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why you refer to Barnet as West London, it is affluent, but both Enfield and Barnet are north London. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.200.52 (talk) 18:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Barnet is in north-west London. Various authorities, when splitting London into east and west halves, put Barnet in the west half and Enfield in the east half as a consequence. Dark-Fire (talk) 12:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Arnos Grove Estate
I've requested information on the Arnos Grove Estate for the Arnos Grove article since I started the article (my first edit summary said '...needs more about the Arnos Grove Estate, if anyone knows anything about it'), and I think it's time I made a proper request here. Could somebody try to find a few sources like this and use them to put some information about the Arnos Grove Estate into the article. This information could form a sub-section of the 'History' section or, preferably but only if enough information can be found, the information should be put in its own section, like Arnos Park. The 'History' section may need to be split so there are pre-estate and post-estate sections, with the section on the estate in the middle. Perhaps somebody could get a picture of the building in the aerial photo Waggers has linked to above. Dark-Fire 20:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Not an area
Where is your authority that Arnos Grove is a recognisable area? It is NOT a correct postal address and never has been; the area you describe is made up of part of other areas. It was the name an estate once a road and a Tube station, but not a recognisable area. If this area needs a Page at all, which I doubt, it should at least be made clear that this is an informal area. IMO its a bunch of people living in New Southgate trying to associate themselves with posher Southgate by roping themselves into part of Southgate. I live in New Southgate, N11.

IceDragon64 (talk) 00:06, 4 January 2012 (UTC)