Talk:Arrest of Jesus

Tense
The tense of this article is all over the place and could use some clean-up. (ie Jesus does this, Jesus did that) —Preceding unsigned comment added by SlickVicar (talk • contribs) 18:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC) I totally agree here for such a significant issue, the grammar makes as much sense as trying to understand binary in morse code.

Synoptics vs. John
There was obviously an attempt by the author(s) of this article to attempt to show conflict between the Synoptic accounts and the Gospel of John. That type of thing should be saved for a separate article. This article needs to convey the plot elements of Jesus's arrest. i have removed sections where the author has attempted to show that the various Gospel accounts are incompatible.

For example, Jesus praying in the garden of Gethsemane. The author states that in Matthew and Mark, Jesus took some disciples with him, while in Luke and John, he didn't. In fact, John does not mention Jesus praying in the garden at all - in his account, Jesus and friends come to the garden, and then Judas shows up with the mob.

Here are the facts from the gospels:


 * 1) Jesus goes to the garden of Gethsemane.
 * 2) He asks three disciples to come further into the garden wit him (Matthew and Mark include this detail, Luke does not)
 * 3) He goes further into the garden by himself and prays.

The synoptics agree that Jesus prayed alone. Matthew and Mark mention that he took three disciples with him for part of the walk. John omits the event entirely. There is no need to suggest a conflict here because a) it does not exist and b) it's immaterial to the article.


 * I completely disagree that it's immaterial to the article - if there are differing accounts of the same event, that is highly material. John tells the story so that it's clear Jesus intends to be arrested, consistent with the evangelist's high Christology. It's also remarkable, given John's portrayal of Pilate's reluctance to execute Jesus, that John has soldiers (who can only be Romans at this place and time) participating. This should be an encyclopedia article, not a fundamentalist exercise in smoothing out differences between the gospels. I've edited accordingly. --Tbanderson (talk) 18:53, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Gospel of Judas
I don't think the Gospel of Judas is useful in this article. It's dated at nearly 300 AD, while the gospel accounts are dated far earlier. They're simply more reliable. This article may as well include accounts of Judas from Jesus Christ Superstar, where one performance sets up a Jesus/Mary/Judas gay love triangle. The Gospel of Judas is too far removed to be admissable. Speak now or forever hold your peace - I'd like to remove the reference from this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SlickVicar (talk • contribs) 17:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Swords
It is relevant to discuss where the swords came from. Not much earlier in the gospels, Jesus told the apostles to sell their cloaks for swords. They said they had 2. It would seem (to many anyway) that Jesus wanted the coming confrontation to involve swords. --JimWae 06:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * .This does not appear in the other three Gospels. Arch O. La  Grigory Deepdelver  06:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Now me, I'd guess that swords is meant in the same sense as I came not to bring peace but a sword. See also gnosticism, allegory, etc. Clinkophonist

It seems to me that Jesus is saying to his disciples that even though they had (and have) all they need, their faith will falter and they will seek protection in the purse and in the sword. It is inaccurate to say simply that Jesus wanted his disciples to get swords. -Aaron

Arrest
It might be worth mentioning what he was arrested for. --76.28.238.159 (talk) 18:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Mysterious youth section
Looking through the history, I noticed that this section was removed. I have no idea if this deletion was valid or not.

Despite the fact that during the last supper all the disciples swore to never leave Jesus, they are described by the Synoptics and by John as quickly abandoning him here. However, the Gospel of Mark (and only Mark) adds the somewhat enigmatic coda that a young man, wearing nothing but a cloth to cover his genitals (a loin cloth), had been following Jesus, and still remained. Mark states that when the guards tried to grab this mysterious youth, they caught hold of the cloth, but the youth abandoned it, and escaped naked.

The mysterious youth is unidentified, and isn't referred to directly again. However, some scholars think it may be the same youth as the similarly mysterious youth clad in a white robe that Mark says was later present at the Empty Tomb of Jesus. The controversial Secret Gospel of Mark is usually considered to argue that these two youths are one and the same, as well as being the rich man that Jesus once spoke to, and a Lazarus-like figure. This speculation has been fueled by the potential implications of the Secret Gospel of Mark.

This is, however, not by any means the opinion of the academic mainstream, and critical scholars instead read the youth in the Secret Gospel of Mark, and hence that present at the arrest, as an allegorical metaphor for the progress of an individual as they are initiated into Christian knowledge. Prior to the rediscovery of the Secret Gospel of Mark, the youth was interpreted either as a self-reference to the author of Mark, or as a metaphor for the disciples being naked in the world due to their abandoning of Jesus (Brown et al. 626), and these still remain the interpretations upheld by a large percentage of scholars, especially by the more conservative Christians. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 12:50, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Apart from being unsourced, it is of no serious value to the pericope and the conclusions about its relationship to other items are far from mainstream scholarship. Waste of time to deal with it really. History2007 (talk) 19:13, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ José Luiz disc 00:42, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree as well, particularly given the doubts regarding the authenticity of Secret Mark. It would merit at most a footnote here.--Tbanderson (talk) 19:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

It should be mentioned that the Angel strengthening Jesus is oft seen as an interpolation. http://www.pennuto.com/bible/lk22_43.htm - Apocro — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.98.182 (talk) 23:36, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

The rest of the group
Dear colleagues, there is one thing that would interest me more and that I think belongs in the article (even though the article is called: "Arrest of Jesus"). What happened to the disciples, or rather, how was it possible for them to escape?

If I had sent the soldiers, I would have wanted to seize the ringleader's disciples as well. Is there any discussion in the literature of this strange fact that no one but Jesus is eventually captured? Ziko (talk) 15:08, 17 September 2023 (UTC)